2020-01-08 22:21:53

You don't prove you have grown up by breaking more rules. That's like someone getting caught breaking into a store and stealing a tv, then coming back and breaking into the store again and taking a dvd, then when they get caught they say, "I've grown up, see? I only took this small thing this time."

I still think the community could do better. This whole crying foul for every decision a moderator makes is annoying. I have said before, and I will say it again, I think they are very lenient, and they let a lot of toxicity slide.

thanks,
Michael

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2020-01-08 23:53:12

@Deathstar, post 23 was a well written expression of virtuous desire to try and be as neutrally grounded as possible.  It is a beautiful host of sentiments and I commend you for it.
The problem is, sadly, that in as much as it is commendable and honorable it is also the kind of thing that people like to take advantage of.  I've worked with at least one member of the current moderation panel and can tell you from personal experience that he, at least, would more than likely have looked the other way if he felt it at all possible to.  I'm not sure if this will help, but I want to detail for you at least part of what goes on between the staff.  I'm not going to pretend that mistakes were not made during my time as mod, nor that mistakes cannot and will not be made now, but that's part of the responsibility you carry as a member of staff and it weighs a ton, particularly when you have to take the whole "I don't like you" thing out of the equation.  Anyway, here goes a bit of experience:
The only time that a ban occurs without all staff being in on it is if the user in question poses a threat that requires severe action be taken right away, after which the mod who performs the ban in question will go and report to the rest of the moderation panel on the incident. An example of such a decision made by myself can be found here.  That decision had to be handed down right there and then because of posts I came across that indicated a user was willing to hack a platform that has been advertised on this site and has gained its playerbase through this site.  To my knowledge Ethin is still doing his best to reform and has contacted me personally concerning his past behavior while I was a part of the moderation panel.
From everything I've read on this topic, this user has not attempted by any means to approach the moderation panel to help themselves or their situation in any justifiable way.  The moderators all seem to believe that this user is someone who has tried to circumvent their bans and who has a history of doing so.  The moderators also believe that this user is trying to distribute illegal or at the very least, controversial material.  They have to act, because not to do so is to basically say that anything developers on here are doing can be copycatted or duplicated by anyone else, or worse, stolen so that someone else can make their own port and obtain their own following using someone else's work.
So, I'm not sure how this decision was handed down.  I"m not sure if Jayde struck out on his own on this one or not, but I imagine that if he did he felt he had a good reason to.  Otherwise it would be like any other decision made by the moderation panel, and any other case is thoroughly discussed between all the mods.  No mod or admin at present overwrites any other mod; all provide some semblance of checks and balances.  If an agreement cannot be reached by the majority of the panel it is brought to the users of the site and forum for further discussion for the sake of transparency.  Should Liam, Jayde or any other member of the staff come across everything I've just posted and wish to clarify, reiterate or offer any other possible fact I may have overlooked given that I am no longer part of the staf and things do change I would welcome it.  Until then?  Take everything here to the bank.  If anyone is acting out of malice they will eventually end up a rather sad, sad person for messing with the moderation panel from inside the moderation panel... Especially, from inside the moderation panel.
In summation, I, personally find post 23 the kind of attitude I like to take; look the other way unless you can prove that someone is doing something super bad.  Try to forget their past and come whatever may, then act.  But when you're looking out for a community as a whole and not just for yourself, that sometimes isn't an option, admirable as the overall idea may be.

I do not know what my future holds, but I do know who holds my future.

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2020-01-09 00:22:45

I acted on my own in this one. When I realized it was an alt of a banned user, no further deliberation was needed. When I further saw the way he was speaking to Liam, it implied that 1. he had a past here and 2. he was going to start fires if given a chance. So I nipped it. I would not have been upset if Aaron, Liam or Carter had done the same thing without consulting me. to me, this one was pretty open and shut.
Generally Nocturnis is correct. We're all equals and all have a voice, except in scenarios where a ban is an absolute given.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-01-09 01:09:20

27 and 28 are correct. As much s possible we try to act as a team, but if it's something that is blatant, one of us is goign to step in and take care of it.

In meinem Fernseher ist ein Hund. Er heißt Fritz.

2020-01-09 01:30:17

I haven't really posted on this topic because I had no reason to and anything I would've said would've been redundant to what had already been posted on here. The user that we're talking about on this topic was clearly one who had past experience with the forum, its working, and its moderation structure. I'd ask yall to take a minute and look at the post again, but I can't seem to find it (why?). The post, however, clearly made references to Liam specifically, indicating past experience with either him in particular or the moderation panel in general.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-01-09 21:55:59 (edited by Jaseoffire 2020-01-09 21:58:22)

Hmm. Found the topic that is being discussed. Though, I think I can strengthen the moderators' case here. Allow me to take a crack at it.
First. the ending part of racer max's message.
"Now, admins like liam can unfairly ban me. I will sign out of my account. I'll just look at the posts!" This doesn't really seem like enough  to ban him. While he shows knowledge, that could be for a couple of reasons. The first is that  if anyone spends a lot of time just watching from the sidelines, you can learn a lot about this forum. Actually, I could even raise an admittedly very weak argument based on that text alone that this person has never been banned before. If I remember correctly, I think I vaguely remember Ethin saying something about banned users can't look at the forum due to some sort of data stored in the cookie data or something. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one. If I am, then just strike this bit.
Now, for the stuff that swings this case heavily in the Moderators' favor here.
"I'm so sorry to be back here, but, you know, I stopped clone, and you see, I made a new game! " This is the admission. This text here is the point in which someone would be reasonably suspicious in my opinion. I don't think even bad english would be enough to say that the text doesn't mean what it says on its face. In the event that it would, though, IP testing could be employed to remove doubts. That leaves  only the contact stuff.  Unfortunately, my admittedly very brief investigation didn't pull up anything that I am familiar with, but I don't follow this all that closely, so, anyone more familiar with the banned  members in potential question here could do better. That being said, Jayde's reasoning does check out. Here is the link to the thread for people to double check my work.
https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/3220 … s-runner2/
There we are. I hope this is helpful to satisfy some more people's doubts.

I have a website now.

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2020-01-09 22:19:57

I personally wouldn't rely overly on IP addresses as "evidence", given how ubiquitous and ephemeral they can be.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-01-10 02:51:57

They are not enough all on their own, but if you ring a bingo on an IP address and other factors are involved, it can absolutely strengthen a case for or against someone.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-01-10 07:49:22 (edited by omer 2020-01-10 07:49:52)

btw evin the said website
noone posts something to get banned for no reason
so i totaly agree with the mod side of things here

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2020-01-10 10:51:15

@31, yes the forum does store cookies to attempt to stop banned users from logging in, but you can quite easily clear these. I would asume that is how banned users are still able to view the forum.

War is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength.

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2020-01-10 17:43:08 (edited by Ethin 2020-01-10 17:49:50)

@35, yep. And if the IP address is banned, its not too difficult to change it. The key, of course, is to look at the IP address and try to get its hostname. That makes it easy to detect things like betternet, because betternet uses AWS EC2 instances, and why the hell would someone be browsing *any* website on an AWS EC2 instance, over -- say-- SSH, for instance, when they can do it locally and have a much better experience?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-01-12 08:06:25

But it's not a clone though. Sure it's a runner, and sure it mite have simular systems, but he did not steal sorscode. I know because he told me up frunt. on the other hand, i've also been helping him with quite a bit of english, so he can try to talk more. Jayde, forgive me for asking, but did you download the game and tested it? Part of doing your homework is fully download looking inspecting and then keeping or banning. or at the very least, put the person on heavy watch. Please, wouldn't this have been a better thing than just banning him? other than that, he really isn't trying to piss you off, and nor am I, but at least think you should have downloaded and looked at it, and then tell me what SRC it was from, and then ban. Do you think that maybe you could try that next time? Please, and thankyou.

Happy holidays Rana, mikuV4, unity chan, kasane teto Oh, Teto! All the vocaloids and utau! And lets not forget, Sakura street fighter4! mary christmas to you all!

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2020-01-12 08:23:17

Uh. Anyone who knows coding would instantly know that this is nothing at all endless runner. If it used that game's code, where's the turning, where's the x and y coordinates. Yeah no. Ntm all the soundpool buggage, items in pits. Yeah no. This is no clone. I agree with juan here. I've never spoken to these people but this isn't endless runner and I must admit I thought they'd somehow gotten the code to it.

----------
Hmm... The truth of mysteries. I truely wonder. Don't you wonder?
The wonder of all the human life. Who are you? Do you know?
Can you face yourself? Understand who you are?

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2020-01-12 08:26:16

He didn't ban him because the game was a clone. He banned him because he presented evidence that he was evading a ban. I'm pretty sure a link to that game is still present on this forum. As far as I'm aware, the admins didn't remove links, they just banned the user and moved on. If they deleted the link, then I agree they should have checked the game out before coming to any conclusions if they didn't do that first. However, this is about his ban evasion.

Signature start:
I don't mind if you disagree with my opinions, but if you're going to dismiss something I say, please explain why you don't agree with me. You don't have to, but it helps me understand you better. I don't like when I write out my thoughts about something and try to make people understand my opinions, only to be told I'm wrong and not be told why someone thinks that.

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2020-01-12 08:38:37

I don't know where racer max admited or showed evidence of ban evasion, but ok then...

----------
Hmm... The truth of mysteries. I truely wonder. Don't you wonder?
The wonder of all the human life. Who are you? Do you know?
Can you face yourself? Understand who you are?

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2020-01-12 09:54:37 (edited by defender 2020-01-12 10:56:30)

Basically what happened Frank, is that the guy made statements which sounded like maybe he'd been banned before.
So Jade checked his IP and the website which said his previous username and all that, but in his actual moderation he failed to explain that he'd done so, leading to this confusion, since of course now people are thinking he banned him only because he sorta kinda hinted at evading a ban but not really.
As for the game having stolen code, spreading misconception that was the communities doing.  It never had any baring on the ban as far as I can tell, and weather it was or was not a so called clone doesn't even enter into the picture because the ban evasion is the bigger offense regardless.

Buy the worlds greatest machine gun. It's about 50 inches in length, It's huge! & it can shoot really far, &, it's cheap!
Lets demonstrate this: stand still Thom...
Okay ma.aaa!
Oh! crap!

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2020-01-12 15:47:01

The reason is fucking real. He is someone that was banned before, and because he posted a clone, it is sure valid.

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2020-01-12 15:58:53

Ok maybe it is not a clone, but he was still banned, so yeah.

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2020-01-12 17:43:48

At no point did I say that this game was definitively using stolen source code. Given that I do not have access to stolen source code at all, it would be awfully silly of me to ban someone on those grounds.
No. Ban evasion was the reason for RacerMax's ban, and this is precisely why I left his link alone. His game might not be all that original or deep or whatnot, but it appears not to be a clone.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-01-12 17:48:50

He cloned the name though

Xli qiermrk sj pmji mw xs jmrh csyv sar xvyi, qiermrk jsv mx. Jmrh csyv sar, tyvtswi, hsr'x pix ercsri, sv ercxlmrk hijmri csyv qiermrk.
Epws, xvc erh jmkyvi syx xlmw wmkrexyvi.
Erh.
Uyerxmxc mw e uyepmxc sj mxw sar. Nswitl Wxepmr.

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2020-01-12 21:45:58

As they say... cloning the name doesn't mean your cloning the game. smile
@frank, just because you didn't see something happen does not mean that something didn't happen. That's a ridiculous argument, man.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2020-01-12 23:04:09

Yeah, I do see jadon's point though. IMO cloning the name of a game without the developer's consent is pretty fucked up regardless.

War is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength.

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2020-01-12 23:05:33

Yeah, by that logic, the world never began because I wasn't there to witness it.

I do not know what my future holds, but I do know who holds my future.

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2020-01-12 23:28:34

I wanted to know htf he got unbanned before me :}

Xli qiermrk sj pmji mw xs jmrh csyv sar xvyi, qiermrk jsv mx. Jmrh csyv sar, tyvtswi, hsr'x pix ercsri, sv ercxlmrk hijmri csyv qiermrk.
Epws, xvc erh jmkyvi syx xlmw wmkrexyvi.
Erh.
Uyerxmxc mw e uyepmxc sj mxw sar. Nswitl Wxepmr.

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2020-01-12 23:31:38

I am sorry, but what messed up logic is this about cloning names? You are not making some super popular franchise for which you patented the name so it cannot be used in any other game. If I'm a new developer, I should not need to go through thousands of audio games just to check if a name I chose already exists. I could change the name once I find out, but that's only a choice and only to prevent confusion, not because a X or Y developer chose that same name. Besides, cloning a name, that sounds even more ridiculous than the games we call clones.

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