2019-10-08 02:17:40

so far I have have been working on a js system for sound-only navigating of the settings, audio feed-back etc. The idea is to make something simple (a few rooms and a cliff-side perhaps) and give people a chance to try a lot of tweaking. See what works. I have found that testing beats the crap out of planning. I have also found that when you ask someone for something very specific it works much better than asking them to envision the whole thing. who knows.

2019-10-08 02:27:27

magurp244, I downloaded your python audiocraft to take a deep look. It wont fire up on my macbook but perhaps on a pc at work.  Who is this  rastislav kiss?   and where is his minecraft program?

2019-10-08 03:39:02

I used the audio craft. Its really basic. You might be able to salvage some stuff from it, but its really bare bones. Walk aaround, place blocks, and tts tells you the type of tile.

You ain't done nothin' if you ain't been cancelled
_____
I'm working on a playthrough series of the space 4X game Aurora4x. Find it here

2019-10-08 08:48:44 (edited by magurp244 2019-10-08 08:51:50)

@52
Binary is windows only, 32 bit. You could probably get the source running on a mac if you setup the environment right, but it would likely take a bit of fiddling and adjustment. I scraped it from an open source bare bones minecraft engine example [here] and modified it with some custom sonifier code derived from Peter Meijer's sonifier source over on [seeingwithsound]. It was originally meant more as a concept demonstration of depthmap sonifier navigation rather than a full game, but the foundations there. I have more refined python source around for the sonifier though, if your interested in something like that, though Audiocraft v1.1 isn't bad with the filtering implementation.

The idea, in principle at least, was to use something like 3D positional audio with reverb effects for the ambient environment for a general sense of the world, but to have the sonifier have various filter modes so people could scan for things like specific types of blocks, items, enemies, or interactive objects like switches, containers, doors, etc. not to mention be able to navigate around various obsticals within a 3D space.

I'm not sure what Ratislav Kiss is up to, though as with many a dev motivation and time can be precious resources. If you have any questions on the implementation, or any other source code like my custom python OpenAL wrapper, just ask.

-BrushTone v1.3.3: Accessible Paint Tool
-AudiMesh3D v1.0.0: Accessible 3D Model Viewer

2019-10-08 11:56:32

magurp244. I think this info is what I have been hoping to find. I will reward myself with it after I have cleaned up my current code. very excited thanks!

2019-10-08 21:05:37

I used to play Minecraft quite a bit back in like 2010-2014. I had better vision back then and a bigger monitor. Some things were hard for me, like building line after line of cobblestone for a structure, basically, the line would blur for me between two blocks and I'd need to rely on the hitboxes. Block types with more distinct patterns like Lapis Lazuli were easier, but I never really built out of that unless I was on creative. I used to play with a lot of mods, and one that did help out when I got hold of it was WAILA (what am I looking at). A buddy of mine who still dabbles in the game let me know the name changed but I forget it now. I would always get the FTB launcher and use the Direwolf20 pack. I used to watch all his videos and I liked the mods he put in his pack. I usually disabled a few like Thaumatergy and so forth, but I kept most of them. I loved IC2, Red Power, Thermal Expansion, Applied Energistics, Buildcraft, etc. The list goes on and on. I used to play on peaceful because I couldn't see the creepers and they'd blow up my stuff and I thought that was an unfair aspect since my vision impairment prevented me from spotting them soon enough to stop them. When peaceful tables came into the game, i used those to get the mob drops which let me play survival mode without using TMI or NEI to cheat items in.

I'd like something like this to become a reality, since I can't play anymore due to my vision getting worse. I just see a long road ahead. I'm not much of a programmer, but I know how in depth the game is and what all you can do in it. As a sighted person, you will know far better about these things than anyone who has been totally blind from birth. If you have hope that something like this - even if it isn't the full game - can become a reality, then I do as well.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-09 00:10:09

Ironcross23 I will prob be asking you a lot of questions then.

2019-10-09 07:06:15

I've looked into modding the java based minecraft before, but i'm not that familiar with the code base or use java and/or javascript that much. I did find a few existing minecraft mods for advanced audio like reverb and occlusion [here] and [here] that should work, and given some thought on how to port the depth sonifier over to java, but even so it'll likely take some modification of minecrafts rendering and audio pipelines for it to work properly. Generally speaking you'll need to change the renderer to output solid textures with no fog or gradients to act as a stencil for the depthmap for object isolation, coupled with access to the depth buffer for spacial positioning and range of objects. A compute module like Numjs or Nd4j for handling the heavy matrix calculations when converting the images into a waveform, assuming your using Java or Javascript, and lower level access to the OpenAL stack for creating a custom audio buffer for playback. Generally you'll want to scale down the render area before you do any of this since it can be very computationally expensive, something like 1/10th the current resolution. The general loop goes something like this:

-Draw solid textures to frame buffer
-Grab frame and depth buffer images
-Pass both images to the sonifier class
-Break images down into uint8 RGB 2D arrays
-Multiply the image array with a prepared sine wave array.
-Sum the array along the Y axis into a 1D array
-Load the array into a ctypes array
-Load data into a custom OpenAL buffer
-Load buffer into player for playback
-When finished playing, eject buffer

If you have it on a loop, when loading the data into the OpenAL buffer you grab another set of images and pass them to the sonifier for processing while the sound is playing, then load the new data in when the buffer is ejected from the player, rinse and repeat.

-BrushTone v1.3.3: Accessible Paint Tool
-AudiMesh3D v1.0.0: Accessible 3D Model Viewer

2019-10-10 02:32:10

I have been checking out ways to modify minecraft and the bedrock edition running on a windows 10 computer can be extensively messed with using the minecraft API https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Bedrock … umentation
(an interface of commands that allow you to connect your own java script code). A dedicated person could do a lot here. This is not my plan but it seems totally doable. I am more interested in making a Minecraft like game where multiple players can go on and test out a large number of sound only navigational experiments. testing eats planning for breakfast. After a bit when the best system is figured out then a coder can implement it in minecraft bedrock or what ever else is going on later.

2019-10-10 18:25:10

I was out of the scene before it hit Xbox, win 10 store, all that jazz. I basically always used the java version.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-10 18:41:22

I actually played minecraft for the very first time last night. (java demo) I drowned to death.

2019-10-10 20:02:14

Wait, how? You just hold space to keep swimming. If you let go, you'll go to the bottom. You want to look up and hold space.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-11 02:06:37

Yes, if I had followed the buddy system someone would have told me and I would still be alive today.

2019-10-11 03:43:43

Just wait until you start building and yer shit gets blown up lol. Creepers are made to blend in somewhat, and people don't notice them all the time. The only thing you can do when you hear that sizzle is do a 180 and run like hell. Don't use weapons or anything like that, because they may blow up before you would have killed them, just run fast and away until the sizzling stops, and hope you escape the blast radius. Once the sizzling stops, you can either take them out at range, or lure them away from your structures and run right at them with a sword. Also, you can get skeletons to shoot at them if you're good at it.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-15 12:23:09 (edited by goingSound 2019-10-15 13:50:59)

A call for help on some research of existing Minecraft mods.

I finished my most recent project and so began coding an audio version of Minecraft called Cymacraft to put on the web soon. It will focus on exploring navigation possibilities in a  replica mine craft world.  I hope to use this to figure out the best  mine craft mods for allowing full access with no sight requirements. perhaps sighted players will find it fun as well.

So I guess there are already a lot of homespun mods players can choose in both Java and Java Script. It seems like things are moving to java script but perhaps they are just two different platforms that will continue. So can any of you answer a few questions?

On what versions and platforms (xbox etc?) can mods be applied?
Do any of the mods mess with sound much?
Do any mods give you powers that other player don't have? see through walls? smash things faster etc?

Is the trend toward java or java script or another language?

Of course if anyone has created a mod please pipe in.

If I cant finish this project at least we can move the ball forward.

2019-10-15 15:08:34

On PC only, I believe. I don't know about java / javascript, yes , they can give you powers like that.

You have a whole slew of mods that will do things like give you tools that not only let you mine quicker, but let you take out swathes of stone at a time. I've seen tools that take a 3 to 5 block horizontal where the block you dig is the center of that span, and vertically, and one that has a radius of like 3x3, 5x5 around it, etc.

Then you have what was buildcraft which had the quarry system, where you built the framework for this thing, then let it run and it would mine to bedrock inside the skeletal structure of the framework. You just had to pipe its output to a chest or something.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-15 18:13:00 (edited by goingSound 2019-10-15 22:32:25)

OK thats very promising then. I nervous today because I got the player moving with the mouse and keys just like minecraft so now I have to start doing the sound which is a whole API in itself. First I will just put a couple of randomly place sound sources on a flat plain and then the player can move around hearing them correctly in stereo based on his position. It all uses howler which is a giant set of sound functions that work across all browsers. I got to start collecting sounds for granite, wood, leaves etc. I want each to have three sounds. aside from when they get chopped. One for when they are far away. then play 2 of the sounds when they are closer. then 3 sounds when they are just a brick away. each extra sounds adds a nuance that you can hear because you are closer. oh and I guess a fourth sound for when you bump one. To begin with I will try having the individual bricks call out to the player like birds on a playground. I want to mess with different ways to do that before I develop a second system where the tool points at a specific block to get a sound along with some audio way to show distance. perhaps it will make a single sound like when the object is being chopped but then have a diminishing echo that expresses distance. Perhaps a voice just whispers the number of bricks away it is. The point is to play around and see what works.

2019-10-15 21:17:07

If you have every block within a certain distance from the player each making their own sound, that's going to become overwhelming rather quickly. I would suggest something like a detect nearby objects menu that would give you the closest of a type of block, yet be smart enough to not show each and every wood block and leaf block of a tree.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-15 22:41:23

I will be excited to get your input and collaboration as I try these things out. Perhaps my idea used very sparingly and perhaps at a low volume could give a general sense of the layout while your idea or something like it could do the majority of the informing. we will have to try it all out. I am going to put it up on the web as soon as I figure out the best place to host it.

2019-10-16 00:40:05

Yeah, the only way to know is to try it out and see.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-16 19:39:56

OK I got my site up and some sound using howler js but nothing to do yet. I hope to have figured out the spatial sound tonight. I hope to have it ready for people to start trying navigation ideas very soon! (famous last words)

2019-10-23 17:53:02

been slow work. I don't have much time in the day when I can wear headphones so its hard to do the stereo sound parts.. I am working on a replica of the Minecraft terrain for it though. Ironcross what are the top 5 blocks that would be on the surface of the minecraft earth? rock, water, grass, wood, and leaves?

2019-10-23 19:10:29

That sounds about right, though if you want to get technical, grass and snow aren't full blocks, they're like half blocks that get stripped away whenever you hit the dirt block they reside on. Leaves are usually up higher, like 3 then leaves or 4 then leaves, but I have also seen them on the ground in densely populated forest biomes.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2019-10-24 21:55:51

@ goingSound
keep it up man!
I am soooo excited!

I am a divine being. I can be called a primordial deity, but that might be pushing it, a smidge. I am the only one of my kind to have ten tails, with others having nine. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I have ascended my own race.

2019-10-30 14:17:22

I am still at it. I have a 3d world and a way to move around just like minecraft. I also have a way to create a MInecraft like landscape. but the first debut of Cyma Craft will be as follows:
the player will move on a flat plane. The player/tester will be able to try different numbers of looping sound sources for navigation. Aside from the number of sound sources there will be a few other adjustments to experiment with. the first being how exaggerated the volume difference  in each ear based on rotation of the player to the sound. The other is  making sounds behind the player a little duller and sounds in front a little crisper. I hope people will mess with these setting and tell me what they think. So we can develop something that really works. I have a ton of ideas but think we had better check out these basic ones first. The game will be online with no downloading required.  I will keep you posted.