2019-06-28 00:16:02

Hi Karen,
ANy chance You will do this for PC too? As far as I know even NFL 19 is not accessible on this platform for some reason.

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2019-06-28 09:39:27 (edited by JLove 2019-06-28 09:59:37)

Two questions.  First, are all of the added narration features and such going to be available on PC, or only on consoles?  And secondly, is EA going to address the areas that aren't read by TTS in updates/patches  after release?  Interesting to me that the menus that are voice read by Brandon actually work, but the ones that were meant to be read by TTS are the ones that screwed up, unless I am misunderstand ing what occurred?  I hope that more of the franchise stuff is available to us in 20.  I remember trying with 19, and it was incredibly difficult to do certain things with OCR, especially when there were like three or four different windows on the screen.  So basically you'd get unrelated text to what you were trying to accomplish.  Or if you were really unlucky, you'd get some readable text, but then jibberish that OCR couldn't interpret.  Sometimes it was hard to tell exactly what you were highlighting.  Settings menus were also difficult to use with OCR, trying to keep track of what was actually highlighted, then, in the case of sliders, trying to see how much your slider was on or off.  Roster adjustments seemed pretty much impossible to me, or at the very least extremely, extremely difficult and time-consuming.  It's why I never messed with Ultimate Team, since part of that involves a lot of roster adjustment, and the several times I tried doing the roster thing, it was a disaster.  So, the point is, I could not care less if the voice is of lower quality.  Right now the important thing is having stuff read.  Quality of narration can be improved later if it is absolutely necessary.  To me the most important step is to make all menus, including the menus inside of other menus, as well as other screens like news, trade info, etc., accessible to us.  I've got a Roku, so I'm used to that voice.  And although I doubt it will happen anytime soon, here's to hoping that by Madden 22 we can have the play calling stuff read as well.  After we actually get play calling menus, then we can take that further.  There are several in-game places other than plays, though, that also need narration, like where you can adjust your defense, i.e., shading back or moving forward, setting specific defenders to run specific routes or cover specific receivers, assigning specific defenders to blitz, changing the routes of specific wide receivers on offense, offensive and defensive audibles, etc.  maybe those menus, as well as the team playbooks, can be narrated by the time we hit Madden 25, especially since Addolis is unable to make any type of guide on playbooks due to the way they are updated throughout the year.  I was unable to take part in the beta testing, but based on what I read in this thread, I'm giving EA a thumbs up and saying great job, and keep up the good work.  By the way, @101, Madden 19 accessibility features were available on PC.  Here's to hoping the same applies to 20, as I don't currently have a console.

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2019-06-28 11:11:27

Oh, @102 nice! I heard it was not so this is why I asked. I need to try it out then.

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2019-06-28 13:29:47

While there was no PC beta, we can assume that accessibility features will be on the PC as well.  And and Norhernwind 01, if you want to paly me in Madden 19, perhaps I can make you throw another 15 interceptions? just kidding. Anyways, I"m so pumped up for 20,  and I"m asking all of you to go get the game. Seriously you won't regret it.

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2019-06-28 18:33:35

Addolis, Are you going to do tutorial videos again with 20 the way you did 19, especially since menu accessibility isn't going to be completed?  And I'd love to be able to play against others in the community, but I couldn't figure out how to get the login thing to work correctly in 19.  I really, really wish they'd make that accessible.  I guess I'm going to have to find someone sighted to help me with that part, unless they have plans to fix that?

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2019-06-28 19:04:32

@addolis I couldn't hear you over the sound of greatness that follows me around constantly. The reason I threw those interceptions was due to the ball simply not being able to handle being near me.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

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2019-06-28 19:18:51

LMAO, @Death.  Yeah, I gotta get myself logged in so that I can start joining in on matches.  It's time to kick some major ass, lol.  Last time I tried logging in, OCR wasn't exactly helpful.  One thing I hate about NVDA's OCR is that you can't actually click on things while in OCR the way you can with Jaws.  If I could, I could click where I needed to enter username and password.  That being said, Jaws OCR tends to be awful at interpretation, and so is useless in most cases.  I don't think it was able to show me anything when I tried it.  Here's to hoping that EA fixes it, along with the rest of the menus they haven't completed.  In the meantime, I'm assuming that sighted assistance is required for login.  Maybe I can get someone from Be My Eyes to assist.

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2019-06-28 19:31:50

I'm not sure what it is, but I've not needed to log into an EA game since Madden18. It always just seemed to log me in. I think that was an EA setting. It has my xbox as a trusted device or something.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

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2019-06-28 19:43:52

Yes I will be doing videos  in 20, even though most of the game is accessible.  I"m doing the videos for two reasons. 1. Because I love helping you guys, and two, because in 20,  I"ll be able to do more of them!
Actually what I did was link my ea account to my xbox live account, and it will remember you. Second,  that problemt of not being able to log in is being looked in to, and at this point you will require sighted assistance.

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2019-06-28 22:41:48

@Addolis,
I guess I will take heart in your statement that, "most of the game is accessible," although I thought that none of the in-game stuff is read.  And didn't I read that some menus outside of the game still weren't completed?  Hence my question about videos.  Looking forward to them.  I'm fascinated by the fact that the login isn't accessible, but other in-game menus are.  Are they using some sort of different code entirely for logins?  Seems sort of bizarre otherwise.  What would be cool is if you could log in via a website on your PC using your screen reader, and have it wirelessly connect to your game console and log you in, or check to see if the game is running on your PC, and log you in that way.  Or possibly have Microsoft add a thing where you can set it so that XBox Live can sign you into other accounts that you choose, much like some programs can do in Windows by launching other programs when they run, or launching specific programs a certain amount of time after start.  Same premise here.  You'd have a checkbox within settings that says something like, "sign me into these accounts automatically."  And you could list any accounts you wanted there, along with login credentials.  Just thoughts for possible solutions going forward.

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2019-06-29 00:25:51

The login is a website, not part of the actual game. Still, they should make it read.

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2019-06-30 16:18:42

When I do the Videos, I'll cover what is, and is not accessible, for sure!
It's going to be something!
smile

smile

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2019-06-30 23:49:17 (edited by JLove 2019-06-30 23:59:50)

So, I stumbled across another thread discussing Madden 20 accessibility, and I'm a little confused.  I'm putting this here for ease and convenience, since it appears there have been no posts in the other thread in about two weeks.  The article I read had the following quote:
"There’s currently an in-game technical limitation on narrated menus. To preserve the quality of the game for everyone, we had to significantly reduce this feature in game."
To preserve the quality?  That's where I'm confused.  How does reducing actual in-game TTS functionality preserve quality?  The feature is, from what I understand, an optional one anyway, meaning that sighted people aren't forced to use it.  So reducing it or keeping it doesn't affect them at all.  Therefore, it would seem to me that any reduction of TTS narration in-game only reduces quality or affects those with visual impairment.  So yeah, I'm confused there.  Also, what concerns me is that given that quote, nothing was discussed thereafter that suggested that there would be attempts to fix the above-stated limitation.  So does that mean they're just giving up on fixing it, or just that it won't be fixed by release.  It would have made sense to say something at the end of the above quote like, "We are diligently pursuing avenues to remedy this issue, and hope to have it fixed in future patches or in subsequent releases."  But we got nothing like that, so I hope they're not throwing in the towel.
Also, another area of concern I found was the lack of actual in-game advancement discussed.  An example of such advancement  would be providing haptik feedback to us so that we can determine where to run the ball, which receiver is open for a pass, etc., as I detailed in a post I wrote last year on the subject.  Given the lack of anything mentioned, I am going to surmise that nothing was done in this regard.  Therefore, we are still going to be at a rather large and distinct disadvantage to sighted counterparts.  That is something that really needs to be addressed, and has nothing to do with narration at all.  I am pleased with the asserted progress (I say asserted because I have no basis on which to judge whether the stated advancements actually work or not, as I could not participate in the beta), but at the same time I have concerns.  Here's to hoping that they will continue to move forward.  For now, it would seem to be a step in the right direction at least.  Thoughts?

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2019-07-01 05:11:45

so, the limitations would be in the actual game with the playbook, you have a limited time to select a play and those menus aren't read out, cause it would interfere with gameplay as you can select plays while the commentary is talking. just my opinion IMO

:D happy to help out with games and the like... maybe :D

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2019-07-01 16:29:13 (edited by JLove 2019-07-01 16:42:53)

But again, the feature is optional.  In other words, I have a choice of whether I want narration or not.  Therefore, giving me that choice doesn't detract from game quality for sighted players, since narration wouldn't even be turned on in their case..  Seems like sort of a disingenuous statement to say, "To preserve the quality of the game for everyone, ...", since the only players affected by non-implementation of in-game narration are the visually impaired players.  Sighted players aren't affected at all.  Therefore, "everyone" seems to be an incorrect assertion here.  Moreover, for those visually impaired players, the only group affected, it doesn't preserve quality.  It actually detracts from quality and is a detriment in terms of game play for us.  So the entire statement strikes me as illogical at best, not to mention that it is definitely misleading.

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2019-07-01 23:08:21

@JLove: Apparently they really plan on fixing the TTS inconsistancies at launch. We'll have to see if they walk the walk on that one.

I don't thinkhaptic feedback is good enough programatticly yet to give us all that information E.G. open players for passing, just with haptic feedback alone. We have to have some audio cues.

With user control more greater a force than ever I can't disagree with you, but at the same time as someone who tested the beta, we could do a lot more than we could before, in any video game.

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2019-07-02 01:57:32 (edited by JLove 2019-07-02 02:02:51)

Orin wrote:

@JLove: Apparently they really plan on fixing the TTS inconsistancies at launch. We'll have to see if they walk the walk on that one.

At launch?  My understanding was that the inconsistencies were guaranteed not to be fixed at time of release.

Orin wrote:

I don't think haptik feedback is good enough programatticly yet to give us all that information E.G. open players for passing, just with haptic feedback alone. We have to have some audio cues.

Actually, I think there are certain things that could be done with haptik feedback to help us .  For example, let's say I choose a pass play.  Three receivers run routes, as well as the fullback.  After snap of the ball, one quick tap would indicate that the running back assigned to button A is open.
Two quick taps would mean that the receiver assigned to button B is open, while three would indicate the receiver at X is open, and four taps for the receiver at Y.  It's not totally going to fix all issues, but you get the point.  All the narration in the world won't tell us when a receiver has come open, or whether we're following our blockers correctly during a run play.  That's where haptik feedback could be helpful.

Orin wrote:

With user control more greater a force than ever I can't disagree with you, but at the same time as someone who tested the beta, we could do a lot more than we could before, in any video game.

I did not get to test the beta, so I can't speak to that.  Like I said before, I'm pleased with the progress.  I'm simply concerned by the confusing statement I quoted above and the fact that there was no mention of attempts to fix the issue in that article, and I have concerns about the continued reticence with respect to the in-game issues not related to narration, such as on-field information like open receivers, passing routes, defensive coverage, run blocking, etc.

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2019-07-02 04:35:47

Agreed with Orin here, we're going to need audio cues. Haptic feedback  is only going to take us so far. Especially in online mode, when the sack comes often almost instantly after the snap.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

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2019-07-02 17:28:47

How in the world is the sack coming that fast?  I assume that you're not allowed to stand in the neutral zone prior to snap, or move into a position where you're offsides prior to snap, right?  Perhaps there's an unseen bug with offensive line AI code?

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2019-07-02 18:09:11

It happens pretty quickly. Instantly might have been exadurated, but within two seconds. Idk if your idea would work, it might, but honestly to me just give 5 different tones that play depending on who's open. Seems like it would be quicker to get than needing to wait on vibrations that might fuse with other vibrations or not get the chance to finish going off depending on if you're sacked.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

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2019-07-02 19:26:47

The fact is that sighted users have finer control over how exactly they attack your QB. Us pressing A when we feel a vibration... isn't exactly finer control is it? The computer is deliberately designed to be shittier than user control to encourage people to user. But we don't get enough information to do it effectively.

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2019-07-03 02:17:39

Question.  Will my XBox automatically update Madden whenever EA puts out updates after release, or do I have to do it manually?  , And just out of curiosity, is EA working on accessibility for any other titles, like FIFA or NBA Live?  That'd be really cool.

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2019-07-03 04:55:21

Hello to all,
Let me first start off by answering a question regarding updates. When an update is able to be downloaded, you will need to tell your console to download it, and then you'll have the latest updates.
Second,  I'm not allowed to speak for other titles,  so we will just have to wait an dsee.
All of the suggestions you guys are placing here should be sent to
http://ea.com/able
If you pre-ordered the superstar edition, or you got EA access, we are all less than a month from getting our hands on the game.  I will be doing videos, and I'm going to use mixer this time, and I welcome your questions  I'll post on here when I'll do the videos so I can get as many people on here as I can. Unless you guys prefer the other format, I wanted to experiment this year.
Thanks,
Addolis

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2019-07-03 20:39:53 (edited by JLove 2019-07-03 20:46:40)

Um, I'm confused.  Why are you, "not allowed," to talk about other titles?  I just wondered whether accessibility work went beyond Madden, or whether accessibility was a one-title deal.  I figured maybe someone might have seen an article, or might have tried other titles and found some form of accessibility.  It seems silly to me that EA would want to keep accessibility work on other titles a secret, given that we're all so pleased about the progress they've made with Madden.  Informing us that accessibility has been expanded to other titles only helps them, I would think, since it would further cement the relationship that they've forged with the visually impaired community, and would engender our support even more.  That sort of secrecy seems illogical and really bizarre to me...and when secrecy appears to have no benefit, it's not going to foster trust.  Instead, it makes me wonder what is behind such an attitude of hush hush, when being open about it would do nothing but increase our support and our loyalty, which can only be a good thing for EA.  Strange.

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2019-07-04 08:13:05

So today I finally got my XBox!  Anyone who wants to, feel free to provide your gamer tags and I'll add you.  Mine is HeartOfFlame18.  Let's all have lots of fun...especially me, while I'm kicking your butts up one side of the gridiron and down the other. Hehehahaha.

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