2019-06-11 14:56:03

Hi all.

I'm writing to let you know, that I'm leaving as a moderator, but continue to be here as a normal forum member.

I'll start by pointing out that my decision and timing have nothing to do with Liams choice. My choice was upcoming, where I tried to decide if I should stay as a moderator or not. It is not a hurry decision.
Some people might argument it was bad timing, which I kind of agree on. So, what tricked the timing for my decision? Mainly the way a lot of people have react here on the forum the last weekend, the way a passed moderator chose to attack an other current moderator, combined with a lot of things going on in my life at the moment.

Here are my reasons for my decision:
1. Some internal things in the moderator team. Things which shall not be discussed public. However, I have of course explained those things to the other moderators. Let me point out that I have nothing against any of the other moderators, not at all. I think they are nice persons.

2. I'm simply not good enough at English to catch all the times people are offending each other. I'm also not able to argument that much as required. My English is not good enough to keep argument the hell out of everything, which some members love to spend their time on doing.

3. Because of my big failure where I gave a wrong warning, I'm of course more careful on what I'm doing. Maybe too much careful. I'm afraid of making the same mistake again, and I don't want to have drama around me as a person, just because I'm trying to do my job.
No one is perfect, and maybe I'm expecting too much of myself, I don't know. I just feel that I can't live up to my own standards as a moderator.

4. It feels like the drama continues, no matter what people are doing.
I signed up to be a moderator in hope to make a difference in a positive and great way. But the drama has gone worse since then. Even when moderators are leaving the team, passed moderator are snapping at current moderators and bringing up old and passed topics.
It feels like no matter what I'm saying, people will have their right to be negative and cause drama. No problem with me. It just have to continue without me having to be responsible for keeping the forum a nice place to be. Some people don't want the forum a nice place to be, and I feel I'm waisting my time on constantly trying to figure out what's going on, and how to stop the drama once again.
I just feel that I'm sitting here, unable to make a difference, and unable to moderate the forum well without being backstabbed like others have been afterwards for just doing my job.
When I signed up to be a moderator, my intention was to drag the forum in a positive direction, and just to help where I can in a positive way. With all this negative drama going on, I just don't feel it's worth my time anymore to be a moderator. I have much better things and projects to spend my time on. People are getting what they are asking for: Drama and negative things all the time = People are leaving and spending their time on better things.

I'm simply burned out and drained for energy...

Having said all that, I have at leased giving it a try, which have result in some great and positive things in the moderator team. I'm glad I gave it a try, and at leased helped where I could.

I hope the best for the future of the forum. This is only going to happen, if that's what you want.
If people continue to make drama, trolling, argument the hell out of anything, then this forum is not going to last much longer. I'm just saying...

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

2019-06-11 15:07:32

Something we are apparently failing to realise is that all this drama and stuff isn't at all spassific to the blind community. If you look at the mainstream forums, if anything it's a lot worse. This forum is pretty taim really. I feel like this hole thing of becoming a mod, then making a big show of resigning a few months later is becoming something of a trend lately.

2019-06-11 15:10:08

Thank you for your service, SLJ. It was definitely appreciated. I respect your decision to leave, even if it's putting us in a tighter spot.

The issues of internal strife within the team that you mention are things I have a problem with as well, and which I'm going to keep working to sort through. No team is without its hiccups and its flaws, and we're obviously no exception.

I hope that the user base at large sees this for what it is. If people keep starting fires in order to smoke out things they see, or think they see, eventually there is nothing left but ashes. I mean, let's be real. Who is going to sit through months or even years of unfounded accusations and constant drama?

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-11 15:46:30

well, if you don't really have time then it's a good thing to leave. but if you have time, but are scared  because of you giving 1 wrong warning, then you need to learn that everyone makes a mistake.

it's challenge not chalange

2019-06-11 15:52:26

You were a good mod, slj.
Ok, here's the thing. Drama? look at mainstream forums sometime.
Meh, i guess that shit seems worse in the bind community because it is much, much smaller.
Thanks for being here since waaay before I joined, or started looking at the forums in like 2016.

I'm not sure what to put here, so...
Roses are black
Violets are black
I'm blind!

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2019-06-11 16:14:01

Didn't see that coming.  Thanks for what all you've done, and sorry to hear about what you're going through in RL. Hope everything gets OK soon.

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.-Clark's first law.
Find me on Twitter

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2019-06-11 16:18:05

Comparing the mainstream forums to what we experience here is sort of pointless. That's a lot like saying "Don't worry that your foot is caught in a bear trap. Lots of people die of excruciating colon cancer every day. Compared to them, you've got it pretty good". Because yes, that may be objectively true, but your foot is still stuck in a trap and it still hurts like hell.

The fact is that the last year or so has been the worst in the forum's history. It's been hard to deal with on multiple levels, and there are a vocal few who are making it much, much harder to take.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-11 16:45:18 (edited by flackers 2019-06-11 16:49:22)

I agree  with the idea This place isn't that bad. Strong disagreement is acceptable as far as I'm concerned. Argument for argument's sake is just boring, but doesn't really need moderation. I also agree that it has nothing to do with blindness. You get this behaviour everywhere on the web. I'm starting to think maybe the mods try to control this place a little too much. I mean, take somewhere like a school, the teachers don't try to control every interaction because it's impossible. They just accept some shit is going to go on and just try to control the worst of it. Youtube for instance is almost unmoderated, and it's fine as far as I'm concerned.

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2019-06-11 16:54:08

SLJ, I'm really sorry to see things come to this point, and I can totally understand where you're coming from. I wish you well, though, and hope to see you around!

cmerry wrote:

I feel like this hole thing of becoming a mod, then making a big show of resigning a few months later is becoming something of a trend lately.

Either that, or the job is just too taxing. It really depends on what people believe, and if there's one lesson I've learned from combing through the drama-infested topics and the past year of bad history on the forum, it's that people will just believe what they want. I, in turn, will believe what makes the most sense to me.

If it was a trend, then why would most of the mods that resign write verbose explanations? Sure, some of them say the same thing more or less, sure it's always the same pattern of sign up, do some months of moderation and then abruptly leave. Statistically speaking, it's a trend. But there is a logical reason for it, and the accusation of it just being a trend completely sidesteps the logical reason that brings it on. It's the climate here. If that weren't so bad, we'd have an overflowed cue of mods most likely, because the old ones who left would likely still be here, or would pop in and out and it wouldn't be a major issue. But nowadays the forum needs a fully dedicated mod panel which requires work that a lot of people aren't willing or able to do. Thus, resigning because of stress just makes more sense than doing it because of some sort of cool trendy thing. IOmo the evidence doesn't support this, but what do I know, I'm just another guy who is, admittedly, unbelievably naive at times.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2019-06-11 17:01:32

Agreed with 8. If this thing is going to continue, this forum will just collapse. Maybe we are a toxic community, and we have bad opinions, but these mod dramas just cause more arguments in the community itself. If someone knows that they have a different job and they aren't able to care of this site that much, for goodness sake, why to bother to even apply for the moderator rank? So will we play it all over and over again? Like some people apply again, with a huge enthusiasm like oh oh guys check that I'll be a moderator, and after a few months they leave, too?
And SLJ, you were really a good moderator in my opinion, you always knew when to step in and when to leave people to discuss things further and deeper. So I'm a bit sad about that you left this position.

“In the last, lorn fight,
Against the fall of long night,
The mountains stand guard, and the dead shall be ward,
For the grave is no bar to my call.”

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2019-06-11 17:17:35

Think we don't need moderators at all big_smile LOL JK

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.-Clark's first law.
Find me on Twitter

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2019-06-11 17:23:43 (edited by musicalman 2019-06-11 17:27:30)

flackers wrote:

I'm starting to think maybe the mods try to control this place a little too much. I mean, take somewhere like a school, the teachers don't try to control every interaction because it's impossible. They just accept some shit is going to go on and just try to control the worst of it. Youtube for instance is almost unmoderated, and it's fine as far as I'm concerned.

I can understand both sides. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the forum seems to have a history of mods who are, how can I put it, people with high standards. I'm not saying this to mean anything bad, since I identify with that mindset often.

The main thing I have noticed for a while now is that the team is always trying to prevent problems before they happen. again, I get that. But I do also get why that might be frustrating and seem ineffective.

I grew up on this forum and it has frustrated me to see how things progressed from 2007 to 2019. I might be  a sheltered blind child who's not used to mainstream, but even so, something is definitely wrong here which wasn't wrong 10 years ago. It wouldn't be so bad if there was another community to try, but there isn't, and regardless of how bad mainstream forums could be by comparison, there are thousands of mainstream forums and only one audiogames forum. I agree with Jayde that you can't really compare it.

Anyaudio has already illustrated that. It's like the blind guy's Youtube, and look where that's going. I only go on there once a month,  and while there's fairly interesting content sometimes, most of it is just annoying. On Youtube, I can avoid all the annoying stuff because there's just so much content by millions of people, and I often search for things that lead me to educational content. On anyaudio there are less than a thousand users, a third of whom I venture to guess are inactive and never even posted a clip, and while there are quite a few clips by the people who do post, the scale of it doesn't compare to Youtube at all.

I can personally see why the mods work so hard to try to save the forum. Right now, it's all we have, so it feels like all or nothing sometimes. I'm honestly not sure what would happen if the mod team suddenly disappeared for a week or had new members who only stepped in to stop the big stuff, that actually threatens developers and their businesses and left littler stuff go. I'd like to think that things would be a lot more relaxed and people would just function and get on, but I have my doubts. It would be an interesting experiment, though. If only we could fire up a parallel universe and try it.

I have more than once thought of accepting the possibility that maybe that's what needs to happen, though. maybe it's the only solution left. I'm only half serious, but I"m geninuely fcurious if it will come to that, and if so, how soon.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2019-06-11 17:24:46

LOL of course we need them, but ones that will be up for a long time, and who know that they will have enough patience for the community. Because at the end we even won't know who is a moderator and who isn't. Of course we'll see the rank, but still, if this continues, it'll be confusing.

“In the last, lorn fight,
Against the fall of long night,
The mountains stand guard, and the dead shall be ward,
For the grave is no bar to my call.”

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2019-06-11 17:28:10 (edited by GauravSharma 2019-06-11 17:30:45)

The community itself doesn't have patience for itself. Fat job mods got trying to be patient and make others patient. tongue

MasterOfDeath wrote:

LOL of course we need them, but ones that will be up for a long time, and who know that they will have enough patience for the community. Because at the end we even won't know who is a moderator and who isn't. Of course we'll see the rank, but still, if this continues, it'll be confusing.

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.-Clark's first law.
Find me on Twitter

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2019-06-11 17:32:43

MasterOfDeath, how can you know when you sign up for a *volunteer job* that you'll have enough patience and energy for it? Anything can happen in your personal and online life to render you unable to keep it going. Yes, it's annoying that mods are coming and leaving, but blaming them isn't doing any favors. Just because you sign up for a volunteer job doesn't mean you volunteer to put your heart and soul into it every day (though volunteers often do, because their heart is really in it), but it's not an obligation, and things related to the job and unrelated to it can and will get in the way. If it were a paid position, then you'd preferably be under some contract, but that's not the case here.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2019-06-11 17:45:33

slj np bro everyone is making mistakes in they're life. Well you was really good moderator. Thank you.

love is nice. If someone is against of it, don't listen to them. You must listen to your heart

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2019-06-11 18:09:32

hi slj.
thanks for your time. i really do think you did a good job.
i respect your choice because i really do think the work as a moderator is hard work. once again thanks for your time.

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2019-06-11 18:16:54

15, of course it's not an obligation, but someone who applies for a rank like that, is definitely a member of the forum for a long time, and thatperson sees the everyday life of this forum. I know, anything can happen in real life, but that's why if I wanted to apply, I would think about it again, again and again. Because what if. What if something happens in my life, what if I need to step down, what if I don't catch everyone. This job is full of stress, and on the other hand it's totally voluntary. But these mods are serious, and not like on a smaller forum where they could step down anytime. Unfortunately, this job needs a lot of thinking and a lot of slf confidence, but in my honest opinion, most of the ones who applied ofr it a couple of months ago, didn't really thought it over and over again. I can understand that having power is good, and judging others is more than awesome, but this, is not a game anymore. There are a lot of small hungarian communities where kids lead the things and they step down whenever they want to, but this is more serious than that. After a few years, if you want to ask for help you even won't know who to find because it'll be impossible to track who is a moderator and who is not. And as the time goes by, this forum will be dead, because some more situations like cloning, negativity or whatever, everyone will lose their patience. The only problem I'm having here is that people don't have the right to free speech here, although it's one of your personal laws. If you are negative, then you get a warning, or a caution, just because you don't agree. That's why I did agree with someone who said mods want to rule this site more strictly. I don't think I must have the same opinion ans a moderator, and I don't think I must act like a different person just because they don't accept an opinion here.

“In the last, lorn fight,
Against the fall of long night,
The mountains stand guard, and the dead shall be ward,
For the grave is no bar to my call.”

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2019-06-11 18:48:24

That's...kind of not at all what's happening here.
Just look how many negative opinions, or opinions that run counter to what I think (just as one example, since I'm vocal) are left alone. If you want proof of this, go digging through that closed topic in general games discussion regarding Sudden Attack. I levied, what, three warnings and a caution? There were dozens of posts I could have flagged. Dozens. I didn't touch them. Why? Because that's really, really iron-fisted, and I hate that.
Negativity is one thing. Toxicity is another. Yes, we are a bit firmer now than we used to be, and this is because (among other reasons) we now have the attention, however intermittent it might be, of more mainstream developers. We are, in essence, trying to be a little more accountable as a community. That doesn't mean squashing every bad word, every sharp bit of speech, every ugly phrase. It does mean holding people responsible for what they say. If you can't do that, don't speak.

It should be assumed that when people sign up for the job here, they know a bit of what to expect. They may not know everything. It also happens that some people get more flak than they expect, or have more life drama than they expect. It is easy to be wrong about the level of commitment needed vs. that which you expect. Put another way, Liam decided enough was enough, and SLJ did almost the same thing. This job can get pretty thankless sometimes.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-11 19:25:52

I would also like to point out that the forum is not what it was when I signed up for it in 2005. Things have changed... A lot.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my space bar. Prepare to die!

http://l-works.net

2019-06-11 19:27:54

Ditto. It's considerably more active now, and there's a lot more stuff going on now than there used to be. Way more code theft, a far greater number of audio games to play with, and a whole lot more users overall. It's just a different atmosphere. And that's not altogether a bad thing.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-11 19:36:34

yeah, as 21 said.
Some is bad, but some is good.

I'm not sure what to put here, so...
Roses are black
Violets are black
I'm blind!

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2019-06-11 21:24:07

Hi all.
Thanks for your comments, really kind words and your understanding.
Here are some answers:

cmerry wrote:

I feel like this hole thing of becoming a mod, then making a big show of resigning a few months later is becoming something of a trend lately.

Sounds like you didn't read the whole post in post 1. Having said that, feel free to take my place, and show us how to do it. big_smile

AlirezaNosrati wrote:

well, if you don't really have time then it's a good thing to leave. but if you have time, but are scared  because of you giving 1 wrong warning, then you need to learn that everyone makes a mistake.

I completely agree. As I wrote in the first post, my mistake is only a small part of the reason for I'm leaving. What I didn't told in the first post though, is all I'm doing off the forum. I have a job, when I'm not working, I'm working volunteer in five different organisations, and working on lots of projects as well. This is the reason for I'm off the forum for some days in periodes. When I then come back to the forum a few days later, topics has exploded with drama which felt stressfull for me as a moderator, because I knew I had to at leased check up on what the heck has happened since I visit the forum the last time.

MasterOfDeath wrote:

LOL of course we need them, but ones that will be up for a long time, and who know that they will have enough patience for the community. Because at the end we even won't know who is a moderator and who isn't. Of course we'll see the rank, but still, if this continues, it'll be confusing.

1. Feel free to join if you have enough free time to do it, and keep your status as a moderator prioritised no matter what happens in your life.
2. The only thing you are seeing is what the moderators are talking about to the public. Trust me, there are a lot of things going on behind the scene as well. Things which you need to care about as a moderator. There are always a lot of things which needs to be discussed to find the right decision, and trust me, those decisions can be tough to make, especially if you are the kind of person who wanna make the best place for everyone.
All that combined with a busy life can suddenly become quite overwhelming, especially if things changes that fast as things has done on this forum lately. But again, feel free to take my place if you wish.

Now, for a positive reply:

Jayde wrote:

Ditto. It's considerably more active now, and there's a lot more stuff going on now than there used to be. Way more code theft, a far greater number of audio games to play with, and a whole lot more users overall. It's just a different atmosphere. And that's not altogether a bad thing.

I completely agree that this is not a bad thing. Not at all. This is super amazing. I have been here since 2007, and the forum has never been as active as it is now, and we have people from the whole world. This huge activity requires an active moderator team like never before, that is, if we still want this to be a nice place. I think it also need that the moderator team is extremely good at working together, because it takes so much to keep everything under control, if the moderator team want to keep the high standards of the forum like what it has always been. I mean, this forum have always been the best place to be for many of its members. Some people could argument that this has been the only place to be, but the forum still have a lot of active members, who have been here for more than 10 years.

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

2019-06-12 01:01:05

Well I'm sure that the people you are asking to join the mod team, no offense, but I'm sure that they'll not be qualified big_smile.

it's challenge not chalange

2019-06-12 05:44:55

@slj thank you for serving as a moderator. i totally get how your feeling. there is just a lot of drama lately.

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