2019-06-09 16:55:28

This is in reference to the "Sudden Attack is not a clone" topic in the General room. I finally got sick and tired of this topic and stopped following it.

My main thought is, if we're not going to allow people to link to/announce clones on the forum (which I believe is the correct decision), why are we allowing people to talk about them? Even if no links are given, it still keeps these games on people's minds, when what I'm sure most of us would want here is for clones to be nowhere in sight. Not to mention that this particular clone was apparently made by somebody who was recently permanently banned from the forum, so in my opinion we shouldn't be giving him—or his cloned game—the time of day here.

Some people just dont' seem to get it, no matter how many times someone reminds them that it doesn't matter how much you change or what you do, it's Still! Stolen! Code! And there's nothing you can do about it, unless you rewrite the game from scratch, using nobody else's code, or at least only others' code which was released under a license permitting use.

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2019-06-09 17:02:25

That's what I've been trying to tell particular people on this forum too (re: my very long argument with a particular person in that topic who I single-handedly owned).

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-06-09 19:08:59

Yeah, this isn't gonna stop unless the mods buckle down and say, alright, this is how things are, like it or not. This super lenient approach solves nothing.

I felt the wind of your passing
        is preferable to
I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-06-09 23:41:30

Yeah, no links to cracks, and people talk about cracks, and they get worned.
Clones: no release of clones, but if people talk about them it's fine?

I'm not sure what to put here, so...
Roses are black
Violets are black
I'm blind!

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2019-06-10 00:29:28

I am not going to say anything to certain someone who seems did not learn anything despite my attempt to guide him on the topic of that coppy right infringement. Well, your loss. just a parting words, rules are not always absolute. there is always an exception to it. That is what i am trying to teach that someone.

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2019-06-10 00:30:29

And by the way, to the admin, I assure you that i am not crazygamer whoever that person is. But since i was given already a warning, I will stop here. your warning is appreciated.

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2019-06-10 01:51:41 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2019-06-10 01:55:42)

@UltimateBlade
I think you can benefit from reading and reading the last post on that topic. There are times where its just good to keep quiet. If you have such a strong problem with someone, take it privately instead of making yourself look pathetic in public by being arrogant and stubborn, is that so hard?
p.d.: exceptions to copyright, your disputable identity , and your so called problem with Ethin have absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about in here so please stop misguiding the topic, and the rest of future topics, it will accomplish absolutely nothing for anyone or for you

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2019-06-10 02:08:38

I agree with 7

I'm not sure what to put here, so...
Roses are black
Violets are black
I'm blind!

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2019-06-10 02:12:52

Not even going to discuss post 5-6. I already made him look pothetic, though he did that enough by himself; I really could care less now whether he wants to man up and admit that those who kicked his ass last night -- my time -- were right and he was wrong or not. The fact I got off with a caution is a bit of a miracle for me big_smile.
I disagree with the hole viewpoint of "we shouldn't be allowed to discuss cracks or clones nor should we distribute them". I do agree with the "disallow distribution of clones or cracks as well as the fabrication of such materials" part, but not the "forbid discussion of such materials". Who knows, discussions like that could create some interesting discussions that aren't heated. I think that discussions get so heated right now is because its *actually happening* as we discuss it, which leads to problems. Perhaps after it stops (if it does stop) discussion of such things will be more tranquil. Or perhaps we need to go with a minimum age limit. (Yes, I actually proposed that!)

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-06-10 02:39:33

Ethin, just a heads-up. No caution here, but you're sorta kinda stomping around with a chip on your shoulder after supposedly owning this guy in an argument. it's a bit tiresome. Speaking as a user here.

Re: the discussion of clones:
My stance is, if we allow the discussion of clearly stolen source code (i.e., you can discuss the merits of a rip-off game and whatnot), then what it permits is just what happened in that other now-locked thread. I am generally against limiting free speech and the like, as I prefer open dialogue wherever possible. At the same time, the point about legitimacy by association is a good one. i.e., if you are allowed to talk about it in some way, it sorta legitimizes the continuation of such threads.
This is really, really hard to enforce. My personal feeling would be to say that discussion of clones will have to be monitored, and if it starts getting out of hand or if it's clearly supporting stolen material, it gets dealt with, pronto. Because if you're just talking a little about The Killer, or Constant Battle or whatnot in an offhand way, you probably can't be said to be condoning piracy and/or code theft by default. It's a bit of a slippery situation to deal with.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-10 02:55:11

Oh, how I wish a minimum age limit could be enforced, but that's never going to be even close to a realistic scenario. I, too, feel extremely frustrated when I see that the common denominator of most of these topics going off the rails, to say nothing of the flood of clones, is the age range of the perpetrators, but there's just no way to ensure that people below a specified limit can't ever sign up. people lie about their age all the time. Of course, it also begs the question of what we would do with all of the younger members of this forum who are already users. We can't just boot them out. As much as I truly wish I could tell all these kids to go outside and play, and quit basing their entire lives on what the online world has to offer, that's a societal problem, not something I or anyone else can address. The only people who can curb such behavior would be the child's parents, but it appears to me that many parents just don't give a damn these days.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2019-06-10 03:09:13

@10, sorry about the chip on my shoulder thing. As I said, I have nothing else to say to him, so there's no real reason for me to bring it up on here any more.
I agree with the last paragraph of your post though; monitor discussions of topics like that but don't outright ban it altogether.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-06-10 03:52:02

Look. I hate hypervigilance as much as the next guy. I don't like that it has come to even discussion of this. But this is the climate of the forum right now, so I think it needs to happen at least until the bad elements are dealt with, whoever and wherever they are.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-10 05:21:36

Agree with jayde.

I'm not sure what to put here, so...
Roses are black
Violets are black
I'm blind!

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2019-06-10 05:22:40

eh, we were done with one topic, and now we gonna discuss it in another one? why does this never end?

it's challenge not chalange

2019-06-10 13:43:06

I don't like censorship, but this has gotten to such a ridiculous point that it might be worth looking into.

I felt the wind of your passing
        is preferable to
I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-06-10 18:16:34

I thought I'd make a few clarifications:

1. I had no intention of stirring up another rats' nest like that other topic in the General room, now closed. But if that's what I've done here, so be it.

2. My thought was about persistent discussion of clones, not occasional comparisons, etc. If someone is talking about some other game or something else and makes an offhand comment about some clone, a comparison, etc. the moderators shouldn't jump down their throat. But it's the persistent discussions of clones which I think needs to be controlled. It only draws attention to them, which is the last thing we want to do here.

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2019-06-10 22:44:44

Hi.

While I think our moderator staff is doing quite the good job in most of the cases, I have to give out some critizism here.

As others have stated, the discussions of clones and flamewars in general has piped up over the last few weeks again because certain users of the forum seam to have an uncontrollable biting reflex when a certain other user posts a topic which evolves into a flame war of varying size which the mods will close in the end.

I think I don't need to remind anyone here that this forum is the biggest forum regarding gaming for the blind and that it is possible that developers of mainstream videogames popp up on the forum to get into contact with the blind audience. And if you think honestly about this, isn't that what we all want? Play the games that our sighted friends and others play and experiencing tripple A titles eventually?

At leased that is my personall opinion.
Problem here is, the constant flame wars won't help the matter, add up the clones and their topics and you have the current situation.
As others stated, I am not a fan of scensorship, but in my opinion the matters have spiraled out of control, just scrol along the pages in the general, new releases and off topic rooms and see how many closed topics there are.

Here would be my idea. It might sound harsh, but maybe it can find a compromise with other ideas.
1: discussion of clones should be outright not allowed, those who will start a topic about a cloned product is to receive an instant ban for a minimum of 6 months.
2: Older closed topics should be archived somewhere and deleted off the active forum pages. Developers or heads of accessibility might dig deaper into the forum and than closed topics and drama is what they find.

These are my suggestions for now.

Greetings Moritz.

Hömma, willze watt von mir oder wie, weil wenn nich, dann lass dir mal sagen, laber mir kein Kottlett anne Wange und hömma, wo wir gerade dabei sind, dann iss hier hängen im Schacht, sonns klapp ich dir hier die Fingernägel auf links, datt kannze mir mal glaubn.

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2019-06-10 22:57:03

I do wish there was a place closed topics coudl be sent that was out of the way.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my space bar. Prepare to die!

http://l-works.net

2019-06-11 00:03:08

Hey, ultraleetJ, are you sure you are not an alt of ethin who just make use vpn to make your chipshot on me through your post? If you are not ethin, then I apologize but since you are not ethin let me answer you. I am not trying to make excuses ultralitj, I am trying only to tell the truth hoping that those persons who just blatantly citing laws when in disscussions with others make sure that they know what they are citing and talking about. Although I am coming to hard in giving the example about that infringement and not infringement game, that was because I’m being carried by my emotion but really, my intention is not to belittle or make fun of him? UltralitJ, sorry but I have to tell you this. I am not trying to lecture you but I am just responding to that comment of your about me making excuses.  For you see, In in the law that he cited, there are exceptions and people can coppy and make use of the works of another publicly without his permission depending on circumstances and this is true. You can ask a real lawyer if you don’t believe me. Now, the example I gave about that infringement and not infringement game were not even use publicly. I said that I only played it in my room. This problem was taken on the actual examination given to a high schoolers you know. I even use the word stolen on my example to try and test him if he really know what he is talking about and to give him a clue cause you see, stealing the code or coppy righted matterials of another will not  make you liable under the coppy right infringement law. It will make you liable however under the criminal law for the crime of theft. But I think, by using the word stolen, it causes confusion even more to the poor guy. UltraleetJ, you said thatI am pathetic, arrogant and stubborn. But I will not respond to that cause to respond to your taunting will inflame again this discussion. And to ethin for mentioning some part of the discussion the other day, I’m sorry but it is necessary to answer the statement of UltraleetJ but not to offend you further in anyway.

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2019-06-11 00:08:54

@19, yeah, I do too.
@20, if your looking for a way to get yourself banned than post 20 is the way to do it. UltraLeetJ is not me. Stop attempting to create flamewars with your "the-dictionary-is-the-answer-to-everything" attitude. If the world worked the way you seem to think it does, no one would ever get anything done!

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-06-11 05:55:03

hi,
here are my thoughts. first of all, why do we allow discussion of clones here? @18 said it best. this is the biggest forum for accessible gaming. the first thing the devs see in general games room is x is not a clone. like what?
@20 please please don't bring it up here. this is a discussion on weather or not we should allow those posts.

if you found my posts informative, helpful or funny which i find unlikely please hit that thumbs up button.
want to get in touch? you can contact me via the email link at the bottom of this post.

2019-06-11 06:48:15

Again. I apologize for stepping back from the team like I did. This would have probably been handled way quicker if I had been present. *sigh*

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my space bar. Prepare to die!

http://l-works.net

2019-06-11 13:06:22

Liam, the hesitancy and uncertainty on topics frustrates the hell out of me, too. Believe me. I don't blame you for jumping ship though; sometimes it just gets to be too much, and everyone's got a breaking point.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2019-06-11 17:13:47

@Liam it isn't worth it though. It's like if a fire is happening and you tried to put it out, you know it wont' spread and will eventually consume all of its fuel and just burn out eventually, why continue to waste further resources. Just let the fire burn itself out. This is the situation you correctly recognized and thus, made the decision to step away from. I still think it was a good one even though you were a good moderator. You can take the time to recharge, then put those energies to greater uses.

I felt the wind of your passing
        is preferable to
I felt the passing of your wind

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