2019-05-21 15:33:13

Gotta disagree with the part about Google devices providing the best experience, and because one, that is objective and two, pretty sure my galaxy s10 is just as snappy as a pixal, though having said that I haven't actually tried a google branded phone. Just no money to afford one right now.. but I'm pretty sure that other companies such as one plus, Nokia, and Moto ofer comparable experiences if you go with a decent model from their lines. But again, that comes back to the stock versus skin debate which is, again, completely subjective...

regards,
assault_freak

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2019-05-21 15:52:08

@97 now that, is some fanboyistic bullshit right there. While I've seen Android get unstable, I could always attribute it to something. Like, I'd just got done fucking with shit, and now all the sudden its bootlooping or softbooting at weird intervals, OK my fault. Or, everything dies all at once, OK, old device, probably time for a new one. Yes, I'd say in general, apps tend to crash a bit more than they would on iOS, but it isn't that much more as to be note worthy. I do prefer my iPhone for just being able to pick it up and immediately get into what I wanted to. This thing about baby customers makes no sense and just seems to be coming from some point of contention between you and Google or whatever.

Es hilft kein schütteln, es hilft kein klopfen. In die Hose geht der letzte Tropfen."

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2019-05-21 16:54:01 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2019-05-21 16:56:37)

Synthlonetica Productions wrote:

To be quite honest, I hate to even entertain the idea of even calling Android a stable O S.

well this was for sure, very entertaining and made my day

Android is nowhere near stable, and it's very clear that the company behind it (namely Google) couldn't give less of a fuck about what baby customers want.

neither does or did nintendo, or sony with their flunking xperias, or nowadays huawey or however you spell hat with its superb security expertise and so on and so on, so, moot point!

While yes, I do agree that VoiceOver not having a tutorial like TalkBack does certainly puts it at a disadvantage, I am in no way saying that that is to it's detrement.

A bit contradictory there , which serves as a detriment to your post

At least Apple has been consistent with updates and bug fixes (whereas I'm pretty sure that Google; or Microsoft; are just having a jolly good time screwing over their customers and stroking their thick throbbing cocks with all of the money their insignificant baby customers are feeding them)

disgusting and sexually explicit remarks aside which made my day, I still have no idea why you had pointed out that you were legally blind in all of this. One thing I could definitely yell at google for not doing is improving their accessibility of their other stuff, like the whole google cloud architecture,  including docs and drive. Its usable at best. But Apple has not been doing very well in their personal computing side of things either. SO, another moot point.

and if I did ever use Android again, it would only be as a tablet.

I am really excited to start using an iPhone again, if you can't already tell.

thanks for this, it was actually the hardest part of the post to even try to infer, so it was very kind of you to point it out, despite not understanding even why would you want to use a tablet, and worse, one with android in the first place. It would have much better to read what had you so excited about an IPhone.
Now back to your regular productive discussion programming...

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2019-05-21 18:25:40 (edited by Ethin 2019-05-21 18:25:59)

@97, just Rofl. That has to be the funniest BS I've ever read! You do know that Android owns 74.85 percent of the mobile OS market share worldwide as of April of this year, followed by Apple at an insignificant 22.94 percent? OMG that made my day. Keep up the A&E -- I mean entertainment, not the A part. Woops! Its just the entertainment!

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-21 20:03:17

I will always remember how amazing and stable experience I had when I was on iOS 8.

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2019-05-21 20:37:33

@nidza07 I will also never forget the first time I used an iPhone (yes, it was my mother's iPhone 4, but it still counts).

Yes, I may be letting the opinions of people I've been talking to on Skype color my judgement, but I have no doubt that these people on Skype speak from experience.

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2019-05-21 21:44:52

@106, I... disagree. Entirely. I really, really do not think those people were 'talking from up-to-date experience'. The only thing post 97 did was make you look like an idiot. The only thing I saw out of 97 were the words "rage rage rage". If your experiences had been modern and up to date with the latest Android trends, it wouldn't have ended up so bad for you.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-21 21:52:54

@107 Okay, first of all, I am using a Alcatel smartphone that my dad used to use but he got fed up with it and gave it to me, so I am currently using a fucking hand-me-down device.

While I do think that Android must have made important accessibility fixes, I'm still open to iOS.

And another thing, while I do think that it's great that Android gives it users the level of customizability that it does, when it gets to the point that (if you know the right preferences; you can make the OS more tedious and annoying to use) I think that's when you have to realize that that's the point when Google added a little bit too much customizability.

This doesn't mean I'm Apple biased or Android biased by any means.

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2019-05-21 21:56:43 (edited by Ethin 2019-05-21 21:57:58)

@108, your not "Apple Biased" or "Android Biased" by any means? Your prior posts completely negate that claim, you know. Post 97 practically yelled for all the world to here "I hate Android! Fuck Android!" And, OK, your using an older phone. You still should've, you know... done your homework about the latest stuff instead of raging about things that are out of date.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-21 22:09:20 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2019-05-21 22:17:43)

a slight correction

Synthlonetica Productions wrote:

@nidza07 I will also never forget the first time I used an iPhone (yes, it was my mother's iPhone 4, but it still counts).

oh, Apple bias! alert, alert

Yes, I may be letting the opinions of people I've been talking to on Skype color my judgement, but I have no doubt that these people on Skype speak from experience.

it should have been, speak from (having a terribly bad) experience.
what was it about bias again... when your judgement might, just have been colored?

I had posted some interesting articles on the matter, and here is another one about how awful android could be and how dicky apple has become.  Those are people who are experts in their field and who can speak articulately well and more objectively about what their experiences are. Fun fact: they actually attend the big events those companies have, year after year. I am more inclined to believe them and make decisions for myself and then bring something new to the more productive, insightful discussion we were having a few posts back

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2019-05-21 22:21:38

@109 Okay, While you might be right about the whole raging about stuff that is out of date thing and doing my homework about the latest stuff, the reason I say I'm not "Apple biased" or "Android biased" is because I don't want people thinking that I'm a fan of one O S or the other.

And yes, while I know that that might seem immature, caring what other people think about me, I just don't want people to be quick to judge me, which some people (my parents included) are all too happy to do.

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2019-05-21 22:36:17

@111, dude, get used to people doing that. People will judge you on this thing called a 'first impression'. And they won't ever forget that judgement. It'll always be there, niggling at the back of your mind. You can improve that judgement, but people will always judge you; there is absolutely nothing you can do about that. People judging other people has been going on since the beginning of time.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-21 22:37:25 (edited by Chris 2019-05-21 22:41:07)

I like Android quite a lot. I've never had a problem with TalkBack personally. The web issues were fixed years ago and it works well for the most part. The only issue I have is the poor Braille support. There's no excuse for it. Braille should be built into TalkBack, and you should be able to disable speech and sounds when you want to use it.

I'm going to agree with Jack when it comes to Google branded phones. I think purchasing them takes a lot of the frustration out of Android. Samsung irritates me with their high prices, bloatware, and customized screen reader. Yes, it might be better, but Samsung has historically been very bad about failing to provide updates and abandoning their devices. You can't find the Voice Assistant screen reader anywhere, so you lose it if you want to upgrade to a newer version of Android via a ROM.

Yes, the Google Pixel devices are almost as absurdly expensive as iPhones and Samsung phones, but Google now has their cheaper $400 Pixel 3a. I can understand that price a little more than I can $700 for a Samsung, regular Pixel, or even the absurd $1000 for current iPhones.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.
You may access my NVDA Remote, Three-D Velocity, Sound RTS, and Road to Rage servers by using the address christopherw.me. Road to Rage uses the default 6789 port.

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2019-05-21 22:48:22

@113, I doubt implementing braille translation tables between computer character codes and braille dots and vice-versa is easy by any stretch, so I can understand why Google hasn't -- they may not know how. Or they just don't want to use liblouis.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-21 22:55:46

The pixel2 gave you more bang for you buck at $650, and even as a person who prefers Google-branded devices I am not taking the Pixel 3 upgrade, because I don't feel like plunking down an extra $200 for wireless charging, simply because wireless charging just isn't there with power delivery and will never be. But the thing with that is that performance on the pixel 3 is only a smaller difference, i.e not earthshattering if you don't have the snapdragon845 vs the 835 as long as you're not doing high-performance vr games, and even then you're fine. What's more, the pixel 3 is not rammed down your throat like a new iPhone or even Galaxy would be. For new Android users, the Pixel 3 went on fairly regular steep discounts, but now with the Pixel3a it's a good bargain.
@Synthlonetica Productions: I can't speak for the shittiness or even quality of Alkatel phones as far as accessibility, but generally speaking, a not-very-talked-about brand is probably a bad phone all around. Even an LG would've been *marginally* better. That being said, the only good judgement of Android you can make is that of pure AOSP, not some custom skinned version.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-05-21 23:00:16

@113 Yeah, Braille support in TalkBack can be an issue, and @111, Thanks for that advice.

While I don't know what Braille devices are supported by TalkBack, If someone says Braille support is lacking in something as simple as a screen reader, I'll have to take them at their word.

Sometimes the "multi-motion in one motion" gestures as I'm calling can get to me a little annoying though (e.g. having to do a left then right swipe in a single motion to scroll through a list; or having to perform a l-like swipe either down then right or up then left to open the two context menus).

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2019-05-21 23:20:14 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2019-05-21 23:25:51)

no one appears to have  used brailleBack, much less the beta that came out, I reckon
I use my orbit reader with it and works fine. Yes, its an additional service to install but braille displays are not really that cheap. Actually now that I remember correctly, android accessibility suite is actually a one stop for everything, including brailleBack so installing just one thing would get you talkback plus all of the other stuff.
I can type on the display fine, no problem, using whatever braille table I want to use. Same goes for output. No custom table support yet, but they are actually based off liblouis. Though I would be interested in what problems people are having with braille, how is it so poor and so on.
I can even control aspects from the phone with the display as well, so I am either really having a difficult time understanding something, or really lucky...
Regarding disabling sounds and so on when using Braille, I would agree that it would be a nice toggle to have as currently there is no way to use just brailleBack by itself.

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2019-05-21 23:52:45

The issue is one of software patents. The reason braille support on something like the Touch is so good is because the braille manager is custom, probably licensed from Duxbury. You know, the company that still charges $600 for a braille translation software, never mind the fact Aph's is trying to make more of that free (refer to Braille Blaster for an example). Duxbury has held the license over braille translation technology for who knows how long, and while this doesn't apply to every software patent, when there's next to no competition, usually the open source attempts are inferior at best just because there's nothing else available. It's the same way with OCR (minus the OCR getting into Google and Microsoft products), the two patented OCR's, at least the major ones, are Kurzweil and Fine-reader, and I guess you can count Omney Page as well. Fighting software patents almost never ends well for open source developers, with obvious exceptions.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-05-21 23:55:37

@Synthlonetica Productions:
1. Brailleback beta has braille support slowly but surely improving, with grade 2 support being implemented (finally). Works pretty well with my Braillenote Touch (posing a s a Brailliant when in braille terminal mode).
2. Google Pixel I know has this, but fingerprint sensor gestures mitigate the need for quite a few things that would normally require context menus or a visit to Talkback settings. Up and down swipe on the fingerprint sensor changes the behavior of up and down screen swipes for the following categories: navigation, verbosity, audioducking and speech rate). When in navigation mode, swiping up and down changes your granularity, and right and left moves by the chosen granularity. It's almost like the roter in that sense.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-05-27 03:40:46

So,

I'm connecting Post 21 From some RS Games IOS thread over to here, as the below quoted sentence fits well:

"Seems like some of the android user-base is so good at making noise when companies aren't actively listening, but when it comes to the point when companies want new leads/are considering an Android move, no one shows up to vote."

Before I share my thoughts, I would like for you dear reader (whenever ya have the time,) take a listen to Episode 182 of the "Blind Bargains Qast," featuring an interview with the dev of "Voice Dream Reader/Writer" promoting "Voice Dream Scanner."
FYI: The part about the Voice Dream suite in particular, is "unedited" by Patric/JJ, and well... ... I won't spoil it for ya.

Now, my speculation for why Assistive Technology devs are not "porting" IOS apps to Android, are 3 key things:

1. Marketing/Community Fragmentation
Remember
http://androidaccess.net
? No? Well for one, it "Doesn't Exist" anymore (unless ya journey back to the last official Wayback Machine Entry of it from November 2018.) And then of course we got Inclusive Android where its, ... "surviving." It ain't no AppleVis though...
2. Google's "handling" with its own Screen Reader
I "love" and use Comentary/Jieshuo Screen Reader as my "daily driver" on my Galaxy S10E, with Voice Assistant for either "Samsung Specific" apps (like EMail,) or when extensively navigating around the Droid interface using a BT keyboard. Talkback is "off" of my phone, and I ain't touching it no more! So once Commentary is fully translated in to English and then in to more languages after that, what will devs pick as their screen reader of choice to "blind-friendly" their app? Talkback, where you can't properly even use a "Braille Screen Input Keyboard" unless ya turn it off of course, unlike with  Commentary where ya can actually use an app such as "Pluto TV" while the video is going on in the background.
FYI: In one of the latest Comentary betas, ya can now use "any" engine on your phone as the "secondary" voice, same with the "main" voice. Need I mention, Commentary works better with "Dice World" and doesn't "interrupt" who you are playing against? (Yes guys, that's a "Google Framework" issue, having only one TTS available at a time.)
3. App Stores
I'm glad that the Yalp Store is around, for those people who wish to browse the Play Store and don't wish to have a "Google Account." But what if ya like using "another" app store, such as Up To Down or Aptoide Can ya convince devs to bring their app to one of those?

So, that's all I wanted to share and say. If it means something to you, feel free to respond. If not, respond anyway!

2019-05-27 07:02:25

@120, I don't really get what your point is. I disagree with the quote you put at the start -- because there will be some people to vote for accessibility improvements -- but you can't expect everyone to be happy with those improvements. Everyone has varying expectations, and that quote seems to lump android users into a black/white group of sorts. Second, your podcast (IMO) has no value to your post; I didn't get what you were trying to get across with that one. Third, your points.
1) androidaccess.net. No, there is not a AppleVis for Android. That is unfortunate, yet it is understandable. 2) Google TTS framework issues. I'd use commentary if it wasn't in beta and was actually stable. I think more people would use it if that were the case as well. 3) app stores. What's wrong with differing app stores? Windows has millions of varying "app stores" if you consider all the ways you can purcahse things for windows (and for Mac and Linux) and that is quite a successful model. What's wrong with Android attempting to emulate that? Sure, its a mobile device... so?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-27 15:56:19

@Ethin

Some folks will look at "referenced" material from another thread, others will not. With that being said, here's @Jack's full quote in relation to this topic, which I separate
with its own heading.

Jack's Words

"Admittedly the Android community, or lack thereof, is such an unmoderated shitshow with a few here and there keeping the piece/starting their own android user list to separate from the nonsense from the elitists (some of which who call themselves Android evangelists). Also, we need to actually participate in market research/voting opportunities when they come. Seems like some of the android user-base is so good at making noise when companies aren't actively listening, but when it comes to the point when companies want new leads/are considering an Android move, no one shows up to vote. Seriously, Backpack Studio did not receive many votes for an Android version, which was disappointing no end. There were a few times where Microsoft released polls asking what we wanted out of Seeing AI. Since Android is such a fragmented platform with many different devices and variations of different cameras, sensors, api's and other specs, there needs to be enough demand for it. Especially when it's a project they're doing for free, yet investing serious amounts of compute power and money into it. Unless we want to start paying for Seeing AI which I"m sure will be a showstopper for many. So the next time Microsoft releases a poll for Seeing AI input, go out and vote, don't just shout on your platform of choice hoping someone's gonna hear you."

Ansering Other Things

When it comes to using "other" app stores and/or side-loading non-play store applications, there's  always been mixed emotions from people on that subject, especially from "most" people living in Europe/North America.
For example, I have used Aptoide before, along with F-Droid. In addition, I'm also looking at an app Store right now called Up To Down, where I do love its interface.
I'll talk more about the above from my own adventures among the Android App world, over in This AG room later on.

So... about that Voice Dream Reader Android App vs Voice Allowed Reader
Maybe listening to the interview isn't necessary after sharing the above, since Voice Dream Scanner ain't coming to Android anytime soon? Then again, there's many apps out there on Android which do a quite nice job.

Well, hopefully the above clears up some things...

2019-05-27 21:46:38

@122, I get what Jack was talking about. I don't consider myself an Android Evangelist (I've never even heard of that kidn of term being used) but I will gladly use Android over iOS any day. As I said in 121, I believe that Android is doing its best to emulate the PC kind of world where you can pick and choose what you want to do and how you want to acquire software, something that iOS doesn't do.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-05-27 22:15:38

@Ethin


true that!