Samsung has proprietary stuff left and right, they're almost as bad as Apple in that regard. They're the company that tried to call a bs patent infringement on Apple (before they even had an accessibility solution) that would essentially force Apple to scrap Voiceover. It's no wonder they're the ones that are so cut-throat with Apple while everyone else is fine with healthy competition that ends up producing more well thought out hardware. And that mentioned API for multitouch gestures will never be exposed as Samsung devices are now physically impossible to root.
Everyone keeps saying apple patented the idea of multitouch gestures. Samsung also has this.. so Apple can't have exclusive rights to it unless Samsung bought the permission from them... Talkback's refusal to implement multifinger gestures doesn't make any sense to me because Samsung proves it can be done. And for people saying Android's accessibility API doesn't allow for them... Google owns both pieces of software. Can't tell me there's no way for them to come together. lol
Samsung devices are impossible to root? Since when and why? This makes my likelyhood of buying a Samsung device go down to 0%.
You may access my NVDA Remote, Three-D Velocity, Sound RTS, and Road to Rage servers by using the address christopherw.me. Road to Rage uses the default 6789 port.
@74, I'm impatiently waiting for Lookout to come to Canada. And @76, Samsung is almost an equivalent, but they are not... because you still aren't locked into one ecosystem. But when you're a tech giant, competition is all you see... but having said that, I am probably one of the few people who will say that between the version of stock android I experienced on a moto g5 and 1UI on my galaxy s10, there's no contest. And the big winner for me? Yes, shameless... multifinger gestures.
#80 (edited by Ethin 2019-05-20 05:49:20)
@78, not sure when, but the roomer I've heard is that when you try and root a Samsung device, it blows some kind of eFuse(I don't know how...) and bricks your device. I don't know how it does it but it does it. Supposedly. Oh, and its not "impossible to root," it just doesn't work with known rooting technology. There are still bugs, though, that could make it possible.
If that's the case then wow, talk about a dick move. I've given some thought to possibly switching from iOS when the time comes to upgrade my phone. If the rumors end up being true, I sure as hell won't be going with Samsung since the option to root is a requirement for me.
No fear there.. plenty of options to choose from! Multifinger gestures and a magic tap were both big things for me which is why I went with samsung.
Having companies dictate what we can do with the devices we pay for just rubs me the wrong way. If the accessibility of Android was on par with iOS, I would have probably switched a long time ago since I'm not a fan of Apple's walled garden approach. It sounds as if accessibility is becoming less and less of an issue, so I may switch in the future.
If that's the case then wow, talk about a dick move... ... since the option to root is a requirement for me.
I see rooting as being less and less necessary nowadays. Especially because of this eye brow raising perspective with which I happen to agree.
I actually went out there and searched many of the great, astounding, incredible use cases for rooting in 2019 and nothing really surprised me, and I remember using a rooted device for two years in 2013. SO that's that, advancements in everything I guess. And no, most phones will not brick on purpose simply because you will root them. Its just a way to make sure your warranty is truly void if that chip gets blown, nothing else, and Samsung is apparently not the only one doing this
#85 (edited by austingrace 2019-05-20 15:48:43)
Some of you may find this interesting to read. Well guys, for the goodness of everyone, I have bought a pixel 3A XL and will be sharing my experience on youtube. Can it replace my iPhone 8 plus? I can't answer that question. Now before the android or iPhone bashers come out, I have used iphones and androids since 2010. 2010 was my first iPhone 4. 2013 was my first time with android with an LG mach and a galaxy s4. After that, it was a nexus 5 in 2014, then a pixel 6p in 2016 then a galaxy s8 last year and now a pixel 3a. I have used iPhone as daily driver since 2010 and I'm so sick of how restrictive it is. I heard that a lot of google's accessibility has come a long way in 9.0 so I want to see what's up for myself. Plus I wanted an android device to mess with but not an S9 or S10 quality. so I held out and the pixel 3a XL sounds like such an amazing phone for the money. Keep in mind, I do not play games on the phone so I prob won't tax it much. But the journey starts whenever the phone gets dropped off. But I will still have my 8 plus and I will be Thoroughly beta testing ios 13. Really hoping to help make google make progress in braille support. I personally will not buy another Samsung device because their updates. I prefer to have the latest version of an OS and I don't want the phone company (carrier( or the OEM who makes my phone telling me when I can get my updates. I know the 3A XL is not the most powerful phone but I really think I will end up liking it a lot. I honestly loved my S8 until I saw how slow samsung's updates were.
damn can not install android 9.0 ofitially in samsung galaxy s6 edge, and i need root for it but no thanks. Will use 7.0
And this is exactly the problem that keeps many blind folks away from Android. Samsung is not a one-size-fits-all, and the latest versions of Android have very important accessibility fixes.
#88 (edited by Nocturnus 2019-05-20 18:43:48)
Ehh, from everything I've read since my last post it seems to me that the playing field is still pretty much the same. Accessibility is such a relative term that means a ton of stuff to different people, so for the time being, I'll stick to iOS. Call me lazy; you would probably be right on that front. I refuse to be seen as some stupid lousy ignoramus, however, just because I'm not willing to brush up on the technological side to be on par with Android wizzes, and if that really is how the community of the average Android user would look at me, I'd say I'd be less willing to make any switches in the forseeable future.
Honestly, this was a lot of the beaf I had with iOS users back in 2009-2010, acting as if touchscreens had no learning curb and blindy blinktarded whatevers just had to deal with it and get on the boat yesterday. It seems that the shift now, at least to some degree, is this position that if you aren't willing to find fancy ways to use a device your oppinion is not worth considering.
For the record, I'm not saying iOS doesn't have its eccentric elitist camp; I'm pointing to those of you who bash Android just because it isn't Apple, those who throw around that wonderful little punchline of "it just works" and think it sounds cute and catchy, those who seem to think that Apple can do no wrong on the accessibility front and so on. The coolest innovation I've seen recently, and I"d say it's really not all that recent, is 3d touch. That we can use it has more to do with Apple being master of its environment rather than because screen reading developers invented something super cool.
What does screen reader innovation actually look like? I'm sure people will all have their own personal opinions, but if you want to consider just one, I suggest looking at what both GWMicro and FreedomScientific were doing between the years 2000 and 2010, because I strongly feel that much of what happened during that time is taken for granted now. As it became obvious that the internet was the new road to communication and information much time was spent on how we should navigate webpages and other web documents and applications. To my knowledge, most of the what's new stuff today seems to revolve around fixing things that have already been there for awhile which may or may not need improvement. JFW 2019 improved on notifications in spelling errors in word, the ability to mimic the way VO speaks characters phonetically after a brief pause rather than having to go find out for yourself, a one stop link that'll hold your hand so you don't have to figure out what system you're running and what version of JAWS you need for it, audioducking for windows 10, the tab key no longer echoing, an announcement for multi line edit fields, and improvements to grade 1 braille support for other languages. NVDA is of course, still playing catch up on everything JFW pioneered, coming in with chart interaction support in MS word and powerpoint, adding new languages and more braille display support.
I hardly feel that qualifies as innovating or even exciting on either front, and the only reason I can give NVDA something of a pass on this is that, as I said above, JFW has had roughly 3 decades to NVDA's 13 years of development. If there's any takeaway from post 69, I would say it's that it showcases where we are right now in terms of equallity. In short, while accessibility may mean something different to all of us based on our expertise, the amount of time we have on our hands and the level of patience and tenacity we're willing to invest into a system, the fact still stands that, between Android and iOS, blind users can, for the most part, still use iOS almost as quickly and efficiently as sighted users without having to resort to tons of tweaks. I can't pick up my mom's galaxy and start using it willy nilly; I can grab my sister's iPhone and do pretty much whatever I want with it. I'm willing to accept things can drastically change in a matter of minutes because tech is always evolving, but at present, I see no greater convenience for Android than I have for iOS.
I don't think any samsung users, myself included, are saying that it's a one sie fits ll situation. Samsung is not the only OEM who gives slow updates or has devices that don't allow for the latest versions of Android to run on them. And Pie and Q
s accessibility fixes have not been all that grand. Or at least, not from everyone I've heard running it on their stock devices.. I am running Samsung's version of Pie and while there have been fixes, they aren't ground-beaking. Most of the stuff fixed by google was never an issue in Samsung's Android skin. I simply don't understand why people choose to bash Samsung when Android is all about choice and what you want for yourself. I don't think anyone is forcing Samsung down anyone's throats the way Apple users tend to do with IOS... those of us who use it simply like what we get. Buton mapper has done wonders with my bixbybutton, and the fact that I get diferent music according to the weather report along with Bixby reading said report is a nice extra. Not to mention the ability to answer and end calls with my power and volume buttons. Did I mention smart alerts where the phone vibrates if you pick it up to notify you of missed calls and unread texts? Samsung definitely isn't for everyone... especially the phone nerds who like to tear their OS apart and add things to their own liking. While I'm a phone nerd, I'm not quite there yet... and Samsung has everything I want while still giving me plenty of room to customize my experience. Not to mention, with 128 GB of base memory, the default apps are no longer a memory hog the way people complain about just as the article posted above from ultra leet J says.
it is not for all samsung only s6 and s plus or something.
well said, assault_freak
I also had a surprisingly fast update to android pie. That from the older marsmallow android 6.0 which never got updated (thanks blackberry and empty promises) I was using changed things a lot in terms of accessibility.... but nowadays its so hard to know from people what they exactly are wanting from a phone and what defines accessibility. Right now I just changed the launcher in my phone because I was really accustomed to the blackberry one, which tells you where exactly you can release an icon that you drag to either uninstall the app directly or remove it from your favorite shortcuts... creating and switching screens or tabs for additional apps and so on as well as folders to bundle many apps into a single category is very intuitive in that one. Its just about the only hugely difficult, laborious 10 hour long and nerdy tweak I have done to the entire system, since February.
Sarcasm aside regarding this tweak, I have discovered other things that serve me well. Tasker has a profile that switches my wireless connection off when its been disconnected from any network for more than a minute, or whatever time I want to tell it to do so so my battery does not drain. There are other already made useful profiles that are very easy to download and use from their wiki too, so tweaking that will take you at most, as computer or tech limited as you might consider yourself, 10 difficult minutes out of your very precious, hectic and busy life.
Lets see, what other interesting stuff i have managed to do without even rooting or frying the thing and without spending an entire weekend setting up.. that Ios might simply not have:
The launcher has a whatsapp widget which you can insert into a new page, and is a list that you can scroll using talkback no problem whatsoever, and it will show the messages that you have received. Double tapping on any of these will put you straight on the chat you wish to reply. SO be diplomatic and never leave someone with the double check, and answer at your own convenience. Takes about 2 minutes to figure out and set up.
On that end of ignoring someone but not wanting to reveal that, thanks to total commander, I have set up a shortcut directly to the whatsapp voice notes folder, ordered by last modified. This means that if someone sends me an audio that I want to hear but want to reply to it later, I can go into that folder and hear the audio file without ever opening the whatsapp conversation and go totally unnoticed.
I had previously mentioned you can buy a bunch of sticky nfc tags, paste them anywhere, then use your phone to record small voice clips describing what you pasted those things on (like red t-shirt, rewind button ETC) and then whenever you scan them they will be played back. No additional app or tedious setup other than recording your own voice is necessary for this. IN the mean time, others will have to wait for apple to start opening up the nfc chips for other use cases .. which do not involve a keynote entrance or an apple pay bank.
and so on. Those are convenience things, never tweaks to have functional basic things working like answering calls or the like.
Fun fact: I am living outside the U.s., and updates are coming in constantly (about two months each at most) and regularly. You'd think those people affiliated into a carrier plan in the U.s. would get them fast or those using pure stock android...
Fun fact 2: My sighted brother had used an IPhone and ditched it for a Samsung. What really irks me about android is that phones are becoming obsolete fastter than what I have liked them to do so, but then Apple has not been playing nice with this either and that goes for every one of their products.
Samsung might be too proprietary and all, but for now I have not had any problems. yes, blind friends with IPhone can use just a few other apps I cannot, but those are easily replaced and are actually not a major inconvenience (sighted friends are just nice to have in every situation anyway)
I also find it funny that many of the people complaining about slow updates or a complete lack of it are talking about it from devices at least 3 or 4 years behind. No, not every company will continue to maintain their devices for a long time... that's part of what it means to be a tech giant in 2019. lol And when you're a company like Samsung, you can afford to ditch old hardware as the new one comes out because of differing hardware changes and the fact that loyalists will buy whatever they produce. Again, I'm no fanboy, just speaking objectively... and because right now, for my needs, Samsung does the job best.
@austingrace can you post the youtube link here when you start?
@88 Your practical post says just about all I meant to say in my rambling one, thanks so much!
#95 (edited by jack 2019-05-21 05:25:07)
@AssaultFreak: Of course, you bring up a good point when mentioning it's all about choice. But that's been one of Android's strongsuits for the longest time. Problem with Samsung and choice is you can't have your cake and eat it too, i.e if you love your Samsung device but are fed up with no getting the latest updates or not being able too root, your once good phone has significantly dropped in market value more than it otherwise would have should you choose to sell it and use the money towards an upgrade. Course, that's why multiple different devices exist.
As for Android Q accessibility, I'm not seeing any major talkback changes yet, but I'm also running beta 2 so who knows what's in store. As for Lookout, that's not a Pixel exclusive. It'll be making its way onto Samsung and LG devices apparently. I'd imagine it should be available outside the states sooner or later.
#96 (edited by assault_freak 2019-05-21 05:30:28)
Not necessarily. Samsung's sell for a lot, at least in Canada and the US. And frankly, I don't think anyone who gets Samsung wants a slice of that particular cake. You'll find most people who are advanced users won't go to Samsung for those particular reasons, at least not the smart ones who know about the two problems you mentioned and actally care. My galaxy s8 got me 400 bucks off when I traded it in two years after I bought it, which isn't half bad at all going towards an upgrade. But now that we're on the subject, other than installing whatever android skin you like, what use, really, is there in rooting in 2019? I've seen so many top 10's for rooting and for your average joe, most of the things like having system access and controlling the kernel isn't anything that they would care about. And even many of the customizations are available now without rooting the device. I'm honestly curious, maybe because I haven't experienced a rooted device yet... if I did, perhaps it would change my view. Who knows... right now I don't even have a rootable phone, so would be fun to play with one...
First of all, let me say that I am not completely blind, rather I have astigmatism and a condition that I had apparently since I was a child, retinopathy prematurity.
This means that, yes, I do have to wear glasses in order to correct my vision (20 over 80 in one eye and 20 over 40 in the other with glasses; and 20 over 200 in one eye and 20 over 400 in the other without them).
This means that, yes, while I am still, technically considered (visually impaired) and (legally blind, whatever that means) I can still do some and most things using what sight I have available to me.
To be quite honest, I hate to even entertain the idea of even calling Android a stable O S.
Android is nowhere near stable, and it's very clear that the company behind it (namely Google) couldn't give less of a fuck about what baby customers want.
Many people will praise TalkBack (or as I'm cleverly naming it now; TalkBlack) because it has a tutorial and it shows you situations where you can use the various gestures so you would be able to Intuit which gesture applies to which situation.
While yes, I do agree that VoiceOver not having a tutorial like TalkBack does certainly puts it at a disadvantage, I am in no way saying that that is to it's detrement.
At least Apple has been consistent with updates and bug fixes (whereas I'm pretty sure that Google; or Microsoft; are just having a jolly good time screwing over their customers and stroking their thick throbbing cocks with all of the money their insignificant baby customers are feeding them)
And yes, while I am sure that many people might like the "two gestures in one motion" shtick that TalkBack is trying to pull, I personally do not like it one bit.
Personally, what it all comes down to is (in my opinion) Android is a buggy, messed up, customizability driven (and I really hate to call it this) unfinished O S, and if I did ever use Android again, it would only be as a tablet.
I am really excited to start using an iPhone again, if you can't already tell.
Lol. Unstable OS? That is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!
Hello. Youtube links will be posted. Turns out I should have the phone today (Tuesday the 21( Hoping to have videos up by next week. I need the rest of this week to re-familiarize myself with android and learn the phone a bit before I feel comfortable getting on videos to talk about it.
Whoa, @Synthlonetica Productions, tone it down a little there.
If Android has baby customers then why is it the mobile system that is most open to developers? And what device were you even using? If you're going to criticize android, you really should do us all a favor and tell us which device (s) you used. Android on my pixel2, for example, is a very stable operating system, yet if you grabbed an HTC, or a 5 year old pre-owned device from the flee-market, then it's no wonder you're having a bad experience. Also, Voiceover may be consistent for you IOS people, which is all well and good, but for the mac I'd say it's consistently stagnating. Seriously, what do we not have?
1. No built-in OCR. Need I say more? We're stuck with bloody Tesseract, and having to pay $35 for keyboard maestro to use it no less!
2. Electron support. Seriously. Skype 8 is a hit or miss with Voiceover and there'll be times when i can't even see the webview without restarting voiceover several times.
3. scriptability. Voiceover being the only option in OSX yet having no scripting support has always been a turnoff for me, but now the worst of that problem is coming to light.
For the record, I'm running High Sierra, but the Mojave beta (hated it) doesn't have any substantial voiceover improvements, so when I replaced the hard drive in my mac I was able to reinstall/downgrade.
Back to Android. Freedom of choice is great, but you really need to get Google-branded devices if you want the best experience. Which i don't have a problem with, as their hardware is well thought out and long-lasting.