Hi audio gamers
I have a question for you all.
Why do so many blind people hate android with a passion?
I sware by android, yeah, mock me all you want
So, i'm just really wondering why.
#1 (edited by Ty 2019-05-15 03:29:21)
Hi audio gamers
because they are married to their IPhone.
@Ty Maybe things changed, but in the beginning at least accessibility with android was not good even on aps which came with the phone by default. Furthermore in my opinion, the l-shaped movement that was required in the android version I tried was very confusing,. I never understood how to do the equivalent of a left flick or right flick on voiceover to read previous or next element. Because Apple was first to do good accessibility of at the very least the things which came with the phone it got adopted first.
If somebody can convince me that things changed greatly, and show me how to actually use it, I would be very willing to try again.
I've never bashed android myself, but I do like apple products because they are so simple to use out of the box. I've played around with android and it's okay, it can't compete with my iPhone for sure!
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness, and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order
still a larger amount of accessible apps available for Iphone, plus people tend to like the built in voiceover voices better. No need to worry about if the model you get will have a bunch of interface tweaks to remove or inaccessible built in apps (apple does do quite well with keeping their home made apps consistent) , and Iphone gestures are easier for beginners to learn. Additionally, at least the last time I checked, braille support still isn't up to snuff on Android, and it also has wider compatibility with hearing aids for the not insignificant amount of blind people who also have some level of hearing difficulty.
Other more general reasons include better security, not having to shop around for a model with the right specs when you aren't good with tech, and the (limiting for some) simplicity of IOS in general particularly around multimedia.
People who are quite comfortable with technology can get allot out of an Android of course, but seeing as how most blind people are older or were pretty sheltered and are therefore stuck with the familiar notetaker or windows and JAWS combo before transitioning to a touchscreen, it makes sense that novices direct the market.
That's not to say all people who use Iphones are noobs or something, many just don't feel the need to complicate things when they are perfectly happy with what they have and are able to pay Apple prices, which I think is fine.
Besides, lots of blind people from poorer countries use Androids out of necessity, and your only not hearing from them as much because not many speak English fluently.
Lets demonstrate this: stand still Thom...
The problem is that people are literally basing their experience off of party devices, which admittedly is something that Android did stand for, but were forgetting that brands usually abused the power to modify the interface. There is no android experience that was worse than my galaxy tablet. I have stuck with the nexus/pixel line for years and have never been disappointed by any of them, and haven't much issue with Google starting to hit the ground running with what I would call hardware semi-exclusivity. This means:
1. Google does have a storefront now, and as such, it only sells Google products and trusted made for google accessories. Even Samsung is booted out.
2. On the subject of made for google accessories, contrary to Apple, just because accessories are made for google doesn't mean that nearly all features of them can't be taken advantage of on any android device. Take pixel buds for example. The google assistant-activated earbuds? Yeah, they work just fine on any relatively new android device.
3. Android accessibility has improved significantly, but you really need a pixel to take advantage of all the changes as you will get the newest version of android right away. Plus you'll get things like the gesture-based fingerprint sensor that Talkback takes advantage of to have a sort of makeshift roter that actually works quite nice.
Because Android wasn't accessible out of the box.
Just like Discord.
But both has gotten much better.
Hmm, probably because many blind people got their first glimpses of Android when the accessibility was still in it's early stages and wasn't really good for anything.
I remember playing around with a samsung galaxy s back in the day, around 2013 I think and I was at a point where I just wanted to be done with that crap.
I recently reset my mothers galaxy s3 mini and even though talkback was enabled, explore by touch wasn't there, so I had to tab around the screen a multitude of times till I found explore by touch.
It's not that I do not hate android, but the times where I tried it out, this year even still bring up points which I can achieve easier on my iPhone due to a more fluent workflow. I have no problems in looking up devices and their specifications, installing other launchers or interfaces, but still, even though it might be locked into a system, I like my iPhone for what it is, reliable, functional and fit for the job I need it for.
Also I think that sites like applevis really enforce the android hate, i have the feeling if you are not complying with the beliefs of all the other forum members, you are an outcast already.
I am what you call a Android fan have been using Android since I didn't want to upgrade to the iPhone 5 years ago. I currently have the razer phone and I'm loving it especially the jewel Dolby Atmos speakers.
to me it comes down to what type of person you are if you want it basic simple and sweet majority use apple if you are a techy and like more bang for your buck Android is your adventure.
Each To their own but the overpriced pieces of Apple glass and no SD card slots put me off the phones and the fact that they were getting slower with every update put me off totally.
don't get me wrong I'm not apple bashing as my favourite Apple device is my iPad which is glued to me at all times.
Oh so it works on the basis of if it wasn't accessible 5 years ago and now it is, we still don't care about it. Applevis, I listened to one podcasd, to be exact the interview with devs of DiceWorld, and as soon as the guy started saying something along the lines of, even Android has recently improved a lot, you could clearly hear it was edited out. Then, he mentioned Android in another context, how they are preparing for some more updates on that side as well, and they were like, oh yeah, I guess if somebody has an Android tablet or something like that, as if nobody can use Android as a primary device. I get that they are an Apple community, but creating such an image with developers is so selfish and I cannot even believe people do that.
, is a screen reader built from the "ground up," dedicated to to more people in more nations, and is "NOT" powered by "Play Store" componence, owned by "Google."
NB. Jieshuo (also known as "Commentary" in English speaking countries,) is on the "Play Store," though is currently broken at this time. The devs are trying to get English traanslating done, and braille support added too, thus go and download the latest beta from the Telegram group I provided if ya wish to try it.
Now look, I am happy for what Google did bringing a screen reader to Android and all. What I am not happy about, is the time it took to bring it up to a "decent" program. That Google Accessibility Framework, hasn't been updated much at all, and unlike with Samsung's "Voice Assistant," you can't properly use "Braille Back" unless ya have Talkback runnng!
(At least with Voice Assistant, ya have a "Voice Speech" toggle, ya got that with "Voice View" on Fire Tablets too!
Oh, and if you haven't seen that "Android Accessibility" session they did (even if it was for developers,) well... Watch it on the "Google Devs" Youtube channel.
(The Chrome OS teadm does a much better job, trust me!)
So, this ain't all of the fault of the Android platform itself, its the Google Accessibility Android team itself!
Oh, and if ya want to know what makes Commentary so special, I'll ask if Noona can put up the latest draft of the Commentary manual as a new thread up in the Off Topic room here.
Take care everyone!
Because Android just isn't where it should be in terms of accessibility.
I entered the world of touchscreen devices with an Android phone in 2013. I went the hard way; I wanted to explore; I wanted to do whatever I pleased with my device. Used the phone for like a year and a half and then gave the phone to my father because I couldn't take advantage of what the phone could offer. I ended up understanding that exploring and experimenting wasn't worth the try since the screen reader was very limited and couldn't access many phone's features. While five years ago I had the time to work with my phone all day long, I was totally discouraged by the limitations of Talkback. Today I have the courage and the curiosity to Explore Android, but no time, so iPhone is the better choice because it's just usable for what I need it.
When you have an iPhone, you're equal to the sighted counterparts in every way. You can type as fast and as efficiently as a sighted person using the braille keyboard; you can use emojis correctly; you can have full access to most of the apps that are available on the Appstore, and so on. But what are the strong points of the iPhone, anyway?
• Fully integrated screen reader
• Decent Braille support
• Braille screen input
• Availability of apps and games specially designed for blind and visually impaired users: Blind Square, Seeing AI, Soundscape . . . just to name a few)
• Compact/unified operating system so that you don’t have to look for alternative apps that are accessible
And more . . .
#13 (edited by Dark 2019-05-15 16:03:20)
I do not hate android and would be interested to try an android device just for the sake of experience, neither do I think Apple is god (people know my opinion of Itunes).
However, one stumbling block for me with Android, is always "so what would I do with it?"
I don't doubt there are people out there who use android phones/tablets for the stuff I use Ios for, phone calls, emails, browsing on the go etc, which is fair enough. However, given I can already do all of those things very easily on my Iphone, why would i take the money and time and trouble to buy, learn and/possibly need to customise another device.
of course, if my Iphone broke tomorrow and I couldn't afford a new one, Android's lower price tag would make a difference no doubt, but given I already have an Iphone I just wonder what is unique about Android, what stuff Android does that Ios doesn't, what aps are uniquely out for Android that aren't out on Ios.
Back when I bought my Iphone 5 in 2012, I didn't even consider Android. Ios was an attractive platform because of the massive quantity of aps and games and what not available.
While undoubtedly there is more stuff available now, plus obviously increased accessibility, at the same time, it still seems the lion's share of games and interesting aps that one hears about are out for Ios.
Oh there are exceptions of course, the crimson cult rpg sounded very cool and I hear good things about Google assistant, especially compared to the mess that is Siri, but it still seems that basically those are isolated instances, rather than the ongoing trend on Ios.
this isn't intended as a bash or an "ios is better" conversation, just to ask those who use Android, especially those who have used both mobile platforms, what particularly unique things does android do?
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)
First. Don't come and talk about 1 company. Android has a lot of companies so don't come and talk only about Samsung you have Google that have a stock Android that is very compatible with talk back with its builtin apps. unlike iOS I have now Android 9.0 and I am running an apps that is supposed to work with Android 5.1
The biggest reason why people don't want to give Android a shot (even if they can get a decent tablet to experience it,) is they are too use to the "walled garden" that is Apple!
And as for another screen reader that completely "distroys" Google's own offering (that being Jieshuo/Commentary,) I can some it up below:
If "Freedom Scientific" (particularly) or "Dolphin Computer Access" were the ones who originally "made" Commentary, VS a chinese developer, no one would care if this screen reader was in "beta," people would be "all over it!" Wanting to test it, wanting to talk about it, wanting to "praise it!"
To yall who hate on Jieshuo/Commentary and have "never" tried it in the first place, jump on in to the Official Jieshuo/Commentary group, and be "civil" with yourself if ya got questions/feedback.
And if ya care to "never" touch it? Go on and keep using Talkback!
But if Google's own screen reader can't keep up with the latest enhancements that Jieshuo already got in its utility belt, plus more and more developers start devoting enhancing their apps to work with Commentary instead once all is said and done/more fantastic people get the word out, ... What more can I say? Yall on the Android Accessibility team got a major clean up to do!
Not everyone can, wants to, or feels that ya "need" a "pixel," to have a decent accessible Android experience!
Commentary's got a built-in OCR, translator, Voice Assistant, auto-labeling, enhanced selection/reading/editing (and I do mean "enhanced!") Multi-Part Gestures, edge gestures, fingerprint gestures (which all of said gestures can be customized and even made for specific applications via the use of "gesture themes,") plugins/extensions, over 100 audio themes (including VoiceOver/Talkback ones,) a "real" screen curtain for "all" devices, and so many ways to do things!
Oh, and ya get to customize what gestures ya want for the web as well, if ya wish to do so.
Lastly so not to make this thread all Commentary, do please check out the constantly updating Commentary English Manual
Farewell for now folks, catch ya later!
Why is Commentary's voice assistant such a big deal when we already have Google Assistant and Bixby? I was supposed to help with translating but don't have anything updated so don't even know where to submit my translations. And are developers of the screenreaders actually in the tlegram group?
Back on topic, the reason people bash Android is because those are the people who are familiar with Apple, because Apple works straight out of the box, and because those same people have never given current Android devices a deecent chance. They will pick it up for a day at most, get confused with angular gestures and slight differences in doing things, then give up. I went Android in 2017 when accessibility had taken strides forward, and I oved it. Still do. Aside from the software, the hardware conveniences of my galaxy s10 still having a headphone jack, 500 gb of expandable memory, and for some phones dual sim are awesome.
#17 (edited by queenslight 2019-05-15 15:38:18)
Yep, all those folks are in the "Telegram" group. Ya can also submit your translations there.
As for said Voice Assistant, check out the Commentary Voice Assistant built-in userguide (which has now been translated in to English.) Been like that for awhile!
Oh, and it seems the folks over on AppleVis in the IOS 12.3 topic, are a bit upset with Braille support again.
I am a Galaxy S10E Flamingo Pink "Samsung Knight," 128GB Storage, 6GB RAM, T-Mobile USA.
PS. Ya get betas exclusively from said Telegram group! Punctuation symbols on keyboards, have now been fixed.
#18 (edited by assault_freak 2019-05-15 15:39:29)
IF I'm not working on the same translation files as a regular team, then I won't be very inclined to do it since there is no one track way to keep the translation project unified. I don't know how many people are fluent both in English and Chinese, as well as have experience translating both languages, but I'm guessing there aren't many in the group, so I would indeed like to help. But to date, it hasn't been a smooth process. Also, how am I supposed to read the voice assistant manual? haha. No link, and I am not in either the telegram or what's app groups. Is telegram even usable in China?
my main problem with android are the software updates coming out really bad managed and the google tts, the fact that talkback and explore and touch are 2 different aplications, that talkback is not always a needed part of android and so.
Give the new devs a motivation. Don't expect to much from their first steps cause after all they are new, but give them some chances.
The only other person that's working on translation besides Noono, is Sarah @ke7zum.
As for Telegram Messenger being blocked in China, Check out This Link from "Yoo Security" on the subject, for assistance.
As for a list of those Commentary Voice Assistant commands, I'll paste them in another post, as I'll be copying them all directly to the clipboard, in one go!
Oh, and for those who don't like using "Chinese" servers for OCR and the like, feel free to "stay away" and don't ruin the experience for us other folks!
#21 (edited by assault_freak 2019-05-15 16:01:44)
I'm not in China so it being blocked isn't an issue for me.. I was thinking more for the developers. And I have a healthy dose of skepticism about Chinese software because, as someone of Chinese heritage, I'm more well informed than I would like to be. I don't blindly use anything coming out of that country just because it's cheaper and has some surface level catchy things that look cool. I know too much abut the way we do business and how unreliable a lot of said stuff is. Call it a balanced pro and con of growing up in both worlds culturally and having both perspectives. lol But again, I'm willing to give this a chance provided again translation can stay unified since I haven't heard anything from Nuno in months.
#22 (edited by queenslight 2019-05-15 16:08:29)
He is most active with in the Telegram group these days. It's got 93 members now!
As for China, why in the world is the company "One Plus" teamed up with T-Mobile USA for? That may honstly be my next phone! Well, the "One Plus 10" I guess, if I get a new phone in 2023 or something like that..
Anyway, he's that list of
Commentary Voice Assistant Commands
Voice assistant help
Open the given program: Open application name
Install the given program: install Application Name
Uninstall the given program: uninstall Application Name
Read Everything: Read the whole screen
Read aloud: read aloud and follow the cursor
Current Brightness: read the environment's brightness.
Click: activate the focused element.
Activate specified item: activate item with the specified name
Copy currently focused item: Copy the currently focused item to the clipboard
Translate: Translate the currently focused text.
Translate LanguageName: Translate the currently focused text to a given language
Select: Selects the given text
Send a message in the qq WeChat chat window: Hello send
Yeah.. probably commands I won't use all that often. But we're derailing the topic. I may give the telegram group a try some point soon. I do want to help, again as I said because there aren't many of us that I know of who are fully bilingual in both languages, or at least noone who is and wants to help translate things. But translation involves communication.. and I have not had good experiences in that department.
@queenslight Hmmmm, I can't speak for other people, but as I said, my personal issue with android is more the question of what things I can do with it relative to Apple.
Apple might be a walled garden, but the problem is lots of other people have built amazing things in that garden, so even if you don't like the apples themselves,you might want to stick around for the peaches, and the plumbs, and the statues, and the fountains and then before you know it your wife turns up with a new apple she just got from that very friendly snake and then your dad is all angry at you, and why in goodness sake, I mean if he didn't want you to eat the damn apples in the first place why did he put the tree in the bloody garden, and anyway it was all the snakes fault, accept whenever you try to explain this to the snake the damn thing just bights you and that really tingles for some reason, hmmmm, could this be that poison you've heard so much about? definitely poison! maybe that fellow with the wings and the flaming sword over there could help you with a bit of quarterisation and immergency medical attention! and all of this was because of a bloody peace of fruit in the first damn place!
Okay, methinks this metaphore has sort of gone appocalyptic here, but anyway what I was trying to say, is that I do personally always wonder what you can do with Android that you can't do on Ios, since for me the essential phone use, texting and email is only the paripheral end of what I use my Iphone for, indeed I heavily considered getting an Ipad, accept that having the phoen itself was sort of handy as an extra.
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)
I think the sum of the equasion is if you only want to text, call, check email and browse the web, the either option is a good option and if you have what works for you, stick with it. Android is good for those who aren't content with the peaches, statues and fountains in the garden and want to try their own hand at architecture or at the very least see what other people have built in places other than within the four walls. To use another analogy, Apple is the equivalent to the civilized east in westerns. There are rules, everything works, and it's all easy. But you don't nearly have the freedom you have in the west where law is much looser, and where you have to be tough to find your own way around but once you do, you can do everything you do in the east. Live comfortably, eat, thrive, and you have the freedom to do as you see fit, and the consequences are yourown to bare.