2019-05-12 20:19:23

Hi all
So I have a question
BGT was honestly a great tool for it's time, and i think it has much potential.
It hasn't been updated sense 2016 though.
I know the developer is still around, I just saw him on a topic that was posted yesterday, so I know he is still around
So my question is, why is it no longer being updated? it really, really needs it.

2019-05-12 20:30:07

Philip isn't working on it anymore. Where is this newer version? The last major update was in 2014.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2019-05-12 20:41:27

I was told it was 2014.
Why has he stopped? it was a great tool for it's time.

2019-05-12 20:42:07

It still has lots of potential, if he would just update it!

2019-05-12 20:54:18 (edited by Slender 2019-05-24 07:52:45)

It's not his focus anymore. He's got other priorities now, most notably his business at Elias. He himself has said that BGT was good for its time, and that people should really move on from it now. I think the 2016 build you are referring to was a private version with patches for a specific company that paid for it which was never released to the public.

Oh no! Somebody released the h key! Everybody run and hide!

2019-05-12 21:23:14

Private versions were made for people who were willing to pay for it, I assume.

2019-05-12 22:41:33

Hi.
It's weird, it has no longer been updated, but liam hinted in another topic that development was going ahead but that it was being kept quiet. I think serious programmers have moved on from this, or at least they should.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2019-05-12 22:53:59

Hi all,

For clarity, I shall paste part of a response that I just posted in another topic here.

At this time I don't have any planned updates because I have neither enough time nor enough interest to dive back into it. As I stated in another topic a while back, I recommend people look into other programming languages. BGT was good for what I intended it to do about 10 years ago, but it is not particularly relevant today. If you want to make Windows games and are aware of what the engine can and cannot do, by all means use it. But I personally think it is time to move on and expand the audio games landscape far beyond the feature set of BGT.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall

2019-05-12 23:35:13

@philip_bennefall are we to take that, as an official statement from the bgt creator or from the private person philip bennefall

If you like what I do, Feel free to check me out on GitHub, or follow me on Twitter

2019-05-13 01:05:10

We are starting to move more and more towards mainstream, so we are beginning to use more mainstream programs

2019-05-23 08:06:41

I'd say that's about as official as you're going to get. Also I'm moving this in tot he Development room where it belongs.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

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2019-05-24 07:48:47

Well in my opinion it would be a good idea to release a final version that fixes adleast the virus program problem and adding a 64 bit compiler.

Lamas with hats, but with sponge bob as carl Stay tuned.

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2019-05-24 12:06:39

In my opinion the developer should not have taken so long to advertise bgt as an abandoned project.
So we would be sure he would not receive any more updates.
What is the difference of a freware product from an abandonware product?
Following this logic, the free would maibe receive updates and the second would not, obviously.

About private patches is also something I did not quite understand. Why then does not bgt become a donationware product?
Anyway ... It's sad to see such a project end up for whatever reason. We do not have many options in specific tools for creating games like bgt. And when a person wants to put out their creative ideas, what they need is just that.
Learning programming languages is very important, but ultimately the creator of a game ends up being unproductive because he spends his time studying the working of modules and other complicated things, especially for those who do not have the patience.
It's just my opinion ...

2019-05-24 12:58:57

The false virus detection could well be out of Phil's control. Even if he released a new version right now, there's no guarantee it wouldn't contain whatever signature antivirus software uses to detect BGT games as viruses. Naturally, antivirus software developers are probably pretty closed-mouthed about the signatures they use, for fear someone will write a new version of an old virus without the particular sequence of bytes needed to detect it as a virus.

2019-05-24 15:05:28

A 64 bit compiler would be nice though. and yeah, @13, I'm trying to learn python, and I just don't have the patience.

2019-05-24 17:37:33

I'm amused by the last few replies. You realize a developer doesn't owe you anything, right?
Just ya know. So you're aware of that.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

Check out my live streams: http://lerven.me
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2019-05-24 18:21:02

I assumed that when a developer says a project is dead, it's well and truly dead. The developer has not only said as much here, he's also added that bgt is inferior to other options. If you know that and choose to work with it anyway, you'll have to work within the bounds of what it can do and be aware of what it can't. You also have to know that it's not going to change. Looks like it might be time to learn something that has a 64 bit compiler and won't be falsely detected as a virus, then...

2019-05-24 21:42:33

Post 17 and 16 are things I have been repeatedly reiterating for months upon months now. Do not use BGT if you want modern technology. Don't. Do not use BGT if you want 64-bit support. Do not use BGT if you want reliable networking stacks. Do not use BGT if you want good library support. Do not use BGT if you want assistance with your code from places like stack overflow. Do not use BGT if you want cross-platform support. Do not use BGT if your into writing your own game engines. Do not use BGT if you don't want to have to deal with AVs flagging you. Must I go on and continue that list?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-05-25 04:15:14

@ 17 Yes, the developer said so. However, his positioning before was that bgt would continue to receive updates when time allowed, which still showed some interest in the project.
HTTP://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gbv=1&ie=UTF-8&q=BGT+important+updates&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwje3uS3y7XiAhVyBtQKHWTOAmQQvwV6BAgLEAE
What I realize is that, given the criticisms about the limitations of the tool, the developer is no longer interested in continuing development beyond the lack of time.
@ 16 Yes, the developer owes nothing. I'm not charging for the updates. I'm just commenting on what the developer said when bgt was free. Incidentally, this was a gift for the whole community and some people should give some kind of satisfaction and generally are those who spend the day in the forum talking bullshit and do not program a line of code and do not know take advantage of the limitations.
@ 18 You're one of them, man. Mostly you. Forcing people not to use bgt just because you do not like it is not the best way to help any developer if you do not discourage them, both the one who created the engine and those who play games with it.
If you base your answers on internet searches and popular forums such as Stack Over Flow, please join those places until you think you can actually contribute something.

It is for these and other things that I do not interact much here in the forum because I earnestly earn more time doing other useful things than reading answers like this that add absolutely nothing.
Other people will also start doing this if they are not already doing it.

2019-05-25 05:05:44 (edited by Ethin 2019-05-25 05:06:23)

@19, post 18 was not forcing anyone not to use BGT. I was merely telling people when not to use BGT -- and all that I stated were all limitations of the product. I (realistically) cannot "force" anyone not to use something. So no, I am not forcing people to do anything that they would not otherwise want to do. Furthermore, my post (as a matter of fact) does add something.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-05-25 09:42:49

I do wish I could learn another programming language.

2019-05-25 11:38:15

@19, i aggree. @21: this post helped no one.

Lamas with hats, but with sponge bob as carl Stay tuned.

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2019-05-26 19:26:06

Hello,

Two things About anti-virus:

1. Phillip has no control about anti-virus software, as none other developer has really. For example, me too, each time I release a new version of the playroom windows client, it is also often flagged.
Gradually anti-virus stop flagging afeter a while because they see that the same copy has been downloaded a few thousends of times, and they assume that, since many people use it, it finally has probably no virus.

In fact the only way to make sure not to be ever flagged is to certificate sign your software; what of course costs a few hundreds dollars a year.
So, as a developer, we need to make a choice: enter in the business logic, or remain free. For the playroom I chose to stay free as long as donations are sufficient to keep the system up.


2. In fact, even if Phillip would release a new version of BGT, it is always probably going to be flagged by anti-virus anyway.
The problem is that BGT use a few techniques that are also sometimes used by malwares. I won't go into details here but if you are interested, make a search about self-extracting executable, executables with appended resources, or resource injection.
By the way, these techniques prevent from signing executables altogether, so he couldn't have done it while BGT was a paid software anyway.


And now, a more general thing:

When Phillip decided to release the full version of BGT for free, you should consider that it was part of an abandon. It should have been a signal that he weren't going to work on it anymore.

It's easy to say this after 5 years of hindsight, but think about it 2 minutes: why would you stop selling something and suddenly give it away for free ?
IF you are planing updates, you don't do this; you continue your business... don't you ?
It would have been different if BGT was totally free from the beginning. But remember, it wasn't.

In the same situation, many others continue selling their product without promising any update, laugh at you or even don't answer at all when the product doesn't work anymore after 6 months, or even, in extreme cases, the company totally disappear. In all these cases you may feel stolen. By releasing BGT for free, nobody can't say anything.
In fact, Phillip took a quite honnest decision here. He could have gone further by releasing BGT in open source, but making it free is already quite fair compared to many others who don't care so much.

I find the decision about Q9 much worse and infortunate, where he should have done the same, but well... it's another topic.

There are 10 kinds of people : those who know binary, and those who don't.

2019-05-26 19:38:17 (edited by Ethin 2019-05-26 19:39:00)

@23, I'd like to add that code signing does not make your program suddenly pure of contamination. In order to truly acknowledge that a program is not a virus, you would need the security community to hire a security expert to run a full analysis of the program (which Phillip could've done, though it would've cost him to request it), which as I just said costs a lot of money usually.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github