2019-04-23 00:41:05

Talking from a business point of view here, I see quite a few new releases room discussions regarding incremental web-based games.
the common complaint seems to be that they're only half accessible, pretty much what can be expected.
But it got me wondering, what is exactly, an incremental game?
What makes them fun?
Why are they popular?
Any answers are helpful.
Thanks
Nate

Nathan Smith
Managing Director of Nathan Tech
It's not disability
It's ability!

2019-04-23 01:14:35

Hi,
An incremental game primarily has the simple feature of something, well, increasing, and then upgrading.
It's a bit more complex though.
If you've played through A Dark Room, you might know about some of these complexities. If not, whether that's due to you not having an iPhone or some other reason, well, suffice it to say I don't want to spoil it here. What I can just say is that A Dark Room can only be experienced once in it's purest state: that is: do not read spoilers, go in, and come out the other side. Even if you were to replay, you would not get the same experience purely because your mind already knows how it works.
Some other incremental games just work because they play out a premise to it's natural conclusion, or sometimes take it to crazy heights.
I haven't done this yet, so I might as well put this here, but I had an idea for an incremental game in the style of clickpocalypse whereby it's about battling enemies mostly automaticly. It'd be great if this could work in audio where you could hear things. You'd start out with a sword or dagger or something and maybe some basic rats, perhaps the odd goblin. But then you'd rescue someone and that person might have a bow, and then could fire that bow at enemies, but that bowman might be slower than the sword swinging person but could hit further. Of course different enemies might start showing up. You might be in a forest with some animals. Or you might find a castle with orcs. Of course, this is fantasy, so you will probably eventually find a dragon. As you progress, you could upgrade things as you see fit: do you upgrade the damage of the sword person, or do you upgrade their hitting speed, do you upgrade the bow person's firing speed? Of course later on you might unlock a mage who can do spells and such. But do you? Or do you just have your two sword and bowman/archer double team, going on some adventure? Or do you try to gather an army who will make good at ridding the land of evil? Or heck, do you just go it alone, with an upgraded sword of damaging doom and health, ready to battle that dragon?
There could have, even, a bit more going on. You might unlock towns which let you go on quests. What if you do a game prestige (a.k.a reset perhaps with perks depending on how far you got), and then if you are in a town's tavern, you can view past runs in the style of a sarga. The legends continue. You might end up, later on, perhaps after unlocking a few characters and battling your way through several locations, perhaps doing something crazy: finding a time machine. Now, do you continue looking for that dragon, or do you go for the time machine and change your goal entirely? Is it time to explore time? This is where incrementals come into their own. What started out as a simple fantasy adventure, has now changed. Imagine the line of text that, if a person didn't know what was coming, suddenly discovered. Now for us, if someone were to code this in, we'd know what's coming but we might not know, exactly, how. I'd love if someone went this far and coded something.

Perhaps that time machine could let you find out about that world's lore a bit more in the past, but how would you get there? Do you use those crystals you found to help upgrade your weapons, or do you incert some of your crystals into the machine? But then perhaps it could go crazier: what if you could go back to the age of the dinosaurs, or forward to our time with modern weaponry and modern enemies, and perhaps, beyond, to the future and space travel, and then being able to jump back and fourth between those times? But what happens then? Where in the fantasy time you might find gold, perhaps in the dinosaur time you could find different loot. Maybe eggs? WHat would you do with those? In our time you might find dollars. Fuel, but could that fuel be used to power a car you just bought, or do you use it for a plane, or do you power that spaceship in the future? This is where complexity comes in, and this is the joy of incremental games. What started out as a fantasy adventure, could be a fantasy adventure as you could stay in your normal time of the game. Or, you could start to explore time. So, are you going through history? Are you going on an adventure with dinos? What happens if you end up going through time, and bringing a t-rex as a companion, and going to the zone where the dragon is? What happens then? What happens if you take the t-rex to the future and put it on a space ship? You might land on a planet where the inhabitants might be able to just penetrate the t-rex's rmour. But then, you'd just upgrade him and come back later. Or you'd find something else that could help you stop those inhabitants.
Or you might not land on a planet at all. That space ship you found could be a whole new way to play. Time to just have a life among the stars. Blast some ships, or maybe just upgrade and trade with them. Maybe you just want to see how far you could fly. What you might be realizing here, is I'm describing what seems like a mishmash of games, and that's exactly what it is. I'll say it again, what started out as a fantasy adventure has now completely changed. IT can either stay changed, or you can do whatever. Do you reset with a perk that not only gives you upgrades in the fantasy areas and lets you run through quicker, but perhaps a perk that lets you remember your ancestor's locations (i.e: previous travel points)? Does your ancestor leave a map to that time machine so you can go there quicker, or do you perhaps get a supply of crystals so that when you find the machine, you won't have to spend as much time gathering crystals to power it? Or do you become a fantasy explorer again, using your crystals to upgrade your weapons and completely ignore the time machine?
That's the thing. The goal is yours as a player, and it's up to you as a developer to come up with what you might want an incremental to be. Do you want something complex with a genre mishmash like I described, or do you want to make something where players can live out a bite-sized adventure that potentially never ends but always has mechanics like getting to a certain point where you'd prestige and get more bonuses?

2019-04-23 03:00:04 (edited by Dark 2019-04-23 03:30:05)

"Aaron, wow I really want to play that game. I never had much luck with clickpocalypse myself, but that sounds pretty cool, and its certainly true that since incremental games are at rock bottom relatively simple affairs, you can take them literally anywhere or to crazy hights.


@Dardar, there is an explanation of what incremental games are here The game genres page, however to add a little information.

Incremental games are as Aaron said, usually single player games which take the form of increasing resources over time, usually by repeatedly clicking one or more production buttons, then maximising production of those resources either buy buying resource producing buildings which automate resource production  increasing the amount of resources gained with each initial click, or automated producers  of those resources.

These then give you access to more powerful production options or rarer and hard to find secondary resources, which then mean further production cycles and so on.

the interest in the games come both through the possibility of unlocking new things as you get more resources, and through having to  change production amounts or styles, perhaps through changing conditions, challenges or disasters during the game. Incremental games also tend to work on a system of assentions, where each game will eventually have an end point, and where future assentions often come with different victory conditions.

obviously some incremental games are better than others. I for example like the ones with good text describing the stuff you unlock, a variety of different projects you can spend your time on, and some variation in conditions over time rather than just watching the numbers increase.

This is why I particularly love trimps, which combines production with  strategic battle mechanics, and has more challenges and options than you'd believe.

The difference between an incremental game and a stratogy like castaways, is that in an incremental game your resources will always increase, there is no need to explore complex maps or the like, indeed the idea in most incremental games is that the interface is relatively simple.

the reason access is sometimes an issue, is that depending upon how the incremental game is built, it can be easier or harder to find the various web controls. Obviously if, as in Trimps the developer takes a lot of time and trouble redesigning the interface that will help, but often that isn't the case.

Those games that have got db pages so far are those where all the information is relatively easy to reach and you don't need to mess around too much or use mouse emulation.

If you want a good intro to incremental games, I'd recommend trying either Shark game or space company Both of which you can find in the dtabase, or just dive in and play trimps big_smile.

Hth.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-04-23 08:38:13

Hi there
Thanks for this information you two.
So technically, was solara a game like this?
Crafting kingdoms, and nano empire, too?

Nathan Smith
Managing Director of Nathan Tech
It's not disability
It's ability!

2019-04-23 09:00:51

Like any game genre distinction its a bit fluid.
Solara, I'd say not, since far more of the game depended upon your lineup of heroes vs lineup of monsters/other players heroes, and you couldn't actually increase your own resources by clicking, just by doing quests challenges,  and going through the story.

nano empire has a similar issue, especially with how you get constantly attacked, I'd say those two games (and a dark room), are more a matter of rpgs with background incremental inccrease.

Crafting kingdom though might well count as an incremental game, since there it really is all about the increase, and you can even click to keep things going.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-04-23 09:04:18

No I wouldn't classify solara as being strictly incremental, but crafting kingdom is for sure.

Btw the example game in post 2 sounds great!

2019-04-23 09:07:00

crafting kingdom definitely yes. the other 2 i would say no as there was no benefit to resetting. the idea of resetting is that you start out a little better than you were the last time. whether it be an increased resource gathering percentage or being able to inflict a bit extra damage to help you that little bit further. instead of the game ending at a particular point, you control when you end and restart with the addition of something a little bit extra to help you just that little bit further along the next time.

2019-04-23 17:54:04

Hi again.
Thanks for your clarifications on this topic.
So what makes them so attractive to you, as the end user?
Thanks
Nate

Nathan Smith
Managing Director of Nathan Tech
It's not disability
It's ability!

2019-04-23 20:47:34

I believe what makes it worth it to someone is a little different for everyone.
I'll use Trimps as an example. The game is huge, and you have no chance of reaching the end on your first playthrough. However, when you reset, you start seeing challenges, things that make your game a bit more difficult until a certain condition has been met. After challenges come the perks, and that's as far as I got as of this writing, heh.
What makes the user keep going... I suppose the knowledge that there's still something left in the game to unlock. Something within their reach, mind you. We don't want to have something that costs 999 trillion when our resource gain is only 3 per second, do we?
If you truly want to see what the hype is about, play Trimps. You'll curse me, you'll hate me, but you'll never say that the game was a waste of your time. Moreover, if you're anything like us, you'll become hopelessly addicted to the game.
There are no words to describe what causes us to watch and feel joy from seeing our resources break that million mark, you must experience the high for yourself. You must feel the pleasure flowing through your vanes, the unimaginable sensation of power as you finally purchase that upgrade which makes you god for the next 10 or so minutes, the... Oh boy, I'm not helping to convince you am I?
But all drama aside, play an incremental game yourself if you truly wana know.

2019-04-23 21:16:02

for me personally, i think what i like especially about trimps is that there's always something else to unlock/aim for. as has already been said, the reasons why people play are numerous.

2019-04-23 23:29:58

I think?
I can't understand the attraction until I play one.
I will endeavour to leap into one when I get some free time.
That could be a while.

Nathan Smith
Managing Director of Nathan Tech
It's not disability
It's ability!

2019-04-24 00:17:47

@Dardar, for me there are several main attractions to an incremental game.
The first and one of the most major as people have said, is exploration and seeing what comes next.

I've always loved games that give me something new to explore, and I've always been more inclined to work to get it. If in an incremental game I know there is just one other level of  or one awesome challenge, or one new type of unit or game mechanic around the corner if I can just  enough resources, especially in games that have an ascension mechanic, and even more especially if the pace of your new discoveries is just fast enough to make you keep going, and yet slow enough to not feel too easy. Trimps is exceptional for this, since in trimps your  always breaking new ground as your trimps fight their way onwards.

Another related point is progress. You know that point in an rpg where your getting completely sick of grinding the same monsters over and over again to level up, but your not strong enough to move onwards and it just seems your standing still? Well simply because of the nature of an incremental game you can always guarantee that you'll get there in the  especially in those games that manage to balance incremental increase with player actions so  your essentially always shortening the period of time until you progress.

For example, in a straight stratogy or rpg, if I see I need a certain amount of something to progress and I know it will take me a given time to get  there will always be a static time. For example, if I need another thousand xp to level up and do soemthing else interesting but each battle is taking me about a minute of rl time, for ten xp, then I  just how long I'll be stuck at the grindstone.

Well not in an incremental game. Yes, it might say that I need six thousand iron to buy that next forge and I'm currently just getting one per second, however, if I can also be using my food supply to recruit more miners and put up the amount of ore I'm getting each second, well that thousand units might not take so long after all, partiuclarly since in most incremental games the increments will go on increasing even when your not playing, though of course you usually will get on faster if your  buildings and managing things by hand.

That is another thing about incremental games, your never completely stuck, you  generally always progress somehow, though of course the more complex the game and the more things you need to manage to keep going the more you can affect the rate of your progression. Oh, that's another point, since in an incremetal game, there are always judgements to be made things to be bought, things you can do to progress, its like the most addictive sort of rpg levelling bought down to its basic components, especially seeing you go from humble to humungus over time.

Trimps is definitely the best and most addictive incremental game I've played, but it does take a while of getting used to, especially the way it combines an incremental increase and building management with equipping what is effectively an army and going through basic battles. Trips however isn't the only good incremental game out there, some others I'd recommend include shark game, space company and civ clicker. though I will say I don't think I've found a game that has cought my attention quite so completely as trimps has for a significant while, or one with a developer so very committed to accessibility.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-04-24 02:07:38

anyone else think dark likes trimps? tongue

Nathan Smith
Managing Director of Nathan Tech
It's not disability
It's ability!

2019-04-24 03:52:19

I do too, it just gets laggy on my phone and PC when I got a bunch of stuff going in the game. Not sure how to fix that

2019-04-24 09:55:21

Oh no people have really guessed that I am a secret trimp lover? Was it really that obvious, I went to so many lengths to conceal the fact big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-04-24 14:24:26

Hello.


I stopped playing trimps but to help with CPU issues, use google chrome and go to settings in the game and then performance and turn everything off.

I'm gone for real :)