2019-04-02 17:15:44

I might make a google poll or something. I'm happy staying here if that's what people want but it isn't as conducive to text chat as others.

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2019-04-02 17:22:56

No, it's really not.

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2019-04-02 17:25:46

@50 I wouldn't say it's hard to use, believe me, I've encountered apps that are hard to use. It's annoying, I'll grant you that. It's not pleasant, but it's doable. I can use it without hating the fact that I have to use it, but would prefer friendlier things for purely blind related things if that makes sense. In other words, I will use discord to interact with mainstream communities, or something like this course, but don't expect me to be on every discord server out there, because unless I have a purpose, I'm content to have the app closed. This course gives me a purpose though, so I have no problem using it for that. It's not scary or unmanageable for me.

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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-04-02 18:05:22

Matrix/Riot (https://riot.im) is a fairly good option. I wouldn't say it's *completely* accessible, but I and a few other folks have submitted patches to make the web and Android clients fairly usable. Some things like threaded replies don't quite work, and I wouldn't call it a completely painless experience, but it's night and day compared to Discord. Matrix also has voice chat options, though I think the group chats use Jitsi which I think has its own accessibility issues. I'm in a bunch of Matrix rooms and basically use it as a modern IRC replacement. Wish I could get more Slack groups using it. You'll need an account either on matrix.org or on your own server, but that isn't hard to set up--certainly no more difficult than signing up for a Slack group or something.

If you wanted a voice meeting, you could always just paste a Zoom link into a Matrix room and do it that way.

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2019-04-02 19:43:23

I'm happy to let you all decide this. I'll use whatever format you like - I'm not pushing Discord, at all.

We'll just need to come to a consensus. Zoom, teamtalk, skype are all fine with me. Ideally, I'd love to have different rooms in the group, such as "Current assignment", "Reaper Shortcuts" etc

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2019-04-02 20:19:04

I don't think it's possible to come to a consensus over this though. I'm fine with whatever, but I know other people will have their issues with one over the other. The thing is, all these are viable, so I would suggest choosing one, or creating a strawpoll and gathering a vote that way or something, but if we just talk about it here, it will just go back and forth endlessly.

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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-04-02 20:40:44

Agreed, you're just going to have to pick something and folks will either live with the choice or not. I'd personally prefer Riot, but as I get older I find myself caring less and less about what tools I use to do a thing, as long as I can use them somewhat. I participate in a few active Discord groups even though I really don't like Discord, but I have better things to do in those groups than give them hell because I can't use Discord so well. smile

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2019-04-02 20:55:04

Okay @56 and @57, you're right.
I'm looking into Riot Matrix as mentioned in post 54. It still isn't as good as Discord for organization, and all the others mentioned do not allow for different rooms for different topics. Riot allows rooms but they are all separate - it's like each topic having its own house, whereas Discord is one house with separate rooms for different topics.

I'll change the course of discussion: what is inaccessible in Discord, and how can we overcome it?

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2019-04-02 22:08:47

Well, last I tried the mobile app, yeah just forget about that entirely, at least on iOS. I know people who use the site, I use the desktop app. It is doable, there are some weirdnesses. Like the deafen, mute, and settings buttons used to not have labels, if they do not, I don't know, I haven't opened the app in months. Let me check into that as I write this. OK now I just don't even see them, but there are keyboard shortcuts for that stuff so its not a big deal. One thing to note is that for us, if we have to do a right click, the traditional context menu that we're used to working with does not pop up, instead, a menu of options appears, but it is at the bottom of the screen. Connecting to a server isn't difficult, just give the link and anyone with their discord open can just click the link and it will work, they might have to sign in on the website if they haven't in a while, but once that's done, bam, you're on. The voice chats, the only way I know of to actually leave one is to close Discord for 3 minutes, then re-open it. I don't know if there is a way for us to do that accessibly, and since I've only used the voice chat on Discord like once, I've not had a great opportunity to test it and try to find a solution. Oh, I found the deafen and mute buttons, they're in different places now and seem to be labeled. For NVDA users, using stuff like shift B and shift D and shift H to havigate backwards will have discord focus you on the input box for typing a message and putting NVDA in focus mode. Two ways to deal with this, either go into browse settings with control NVDA B and check the box that says, "Automatic focus mode for focus changes". This will still put you on the edit box, but not in it, so is not ideal. The second way is through Discord itself. While actually in a server window, hit control slash (/) and the overlay will open, now, this won't happen. However, a warning, if you go into that overlay, put NVDA in focus mode, or NVDA is already in focus mode and you hit the arrow keys, it will make these like guitar delayed thingies at you and it is loud and will scare the bajesus out of you. It did to me just now and I knew it would do it.

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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-04-02 22:19:49

do we need to  join those things?

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2019-04-02 22:24:40

@60 No. We will still have lots of dialogue here, in this thread. Discord (or if there's a better choice) will be organised into rooms: Reaper Questions, NVDA Shortcuts, Sound Design tips, EQ Questions, Assignment 1, Assignment 2, etc.

It will make information and your education much easier to manage - honestly it will save you time. Instead of searching through this thread, you'll be able to look up material by topic.

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2019-04-03 00:18:22

Yeah its definitely worth getting all that stuff onto a platform, and Discord provides the flexibility for this.

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2019-04-03 07:30:16

i have never used discord before, and from the people's eprience almost 80 percent of the people says its inaccessable

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2019-04-03 14:44:43

As I've said, it's doable, I wouldn't call it accessible, but it's doable.

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2019-04-03 15:21:10 (edited by simba 2019-04-03 15:22:16)

Well, only stating that it is doable won't help those who struggle with it, at these we should write up a setting up and hints guide for those who want to take part in the course and are not familiar with Discord.
Also, what is the issue with team speak? At leased from my perception more people are familiar with that one.
Greetings Moritz.

Hömma, willze watt von mir oder wie, weil wenn nich, dann lass dir mal sagen, laber mir kein Kottlett anne Wange und hömma, wo wir gerade dabei sind, dann iss hier hängen im Schacht, sonns klapp ich dir hier die Fingernägel auf links, datt kannze mir mal glaubn.

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2019-04-03 15:52:08

Simba, looking up Team Speak now - it hadn't been mentioned yet. I looked into Team Talk but the rooms aren't connected. It looks like they are in Team Speak? This could definitely be the best choice for us. I'm going to poke around in it now.

Team Speak and Discord are the only ones that have a connected set of rooms for different topics but under one banner/account/mod.

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2019-04-03 16:12:17 (edited by daisyalesoundworks 2019-04-03 16:12:52)

Alright Team Speak is out. Running a server will require a rental fee, or my computer being online all the time (higher electricity bill) using up our limited, terrible Australian internet bandwidth which struggles already.

Still looking. Discord is the only one that meets our needs right now in terms of how we organise the information you'll need to refer to.

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2019-04-03 17:21:33

I tend to agree. Anyone who connects at a later time will be able to see all prior messages on all the channels. It's great, easy to moderate, etc. The access issues are somewhat of an annoyance, but haven't we all gone through issues like that to get the things we wanted. I mean, just the other day, it took me 3 and a half hours to install the Ravenscroft 275. This ain't gonna take no 3 and a half hours, I assure you, and the benefits of having the information organized like Discord lets you do it will mean anyone at any time will be able to get the information. Whether that be links to literature on the subject, assignments, etc.

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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-04-03 17:35:52

I think Discord is good enough on pc to send and read messages.

I post sounds I record to freesound. Click here to visit my freesound page
I usually post game recordings to anyaudio. Click here to visit my anyaudio page

2019-04-03 19:13:08

Skype is out of the picture, since Skype 7 no longer works and I'm not using Skype 8. I would prefer TeamTalk. I'm not fiddeling with something like Discord unless I have a good reason for it. We should just continue with this thread if TeamTalk is not what you want.

Best regards
T-m

Internet access is a human right.

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2019-04-03 19:40:03

Well, it's not our decision, the way I see it, it's the instructor's decision and he's been very accommodating thus far.

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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-04-03 19:41:38

can't stick to Discord

2019-04-04 19:45:32 (edited by daisyalesoundworks 2019-04-04 19:46:39)

@70 and @72
I will still be active here, in this thread. I will copy and paste any relevant information into this thread.
Discord is not required.

It is simply there to organise information. If a tip is shared about how to properly layer an explosion sound effect, if we put it in here, when the thread expands to 10+ pages long, each person interested is going to have to spend a minimum 5 minutes searching for that specific tip.

I don't have that kind of time. I assume you don't either. Discord will organise all of the information into different categories, that's all. If it's too inaccessible I respect that - you can ask your question in here and we'll answer it when we can.

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2019-04-04 20:21:24

I'm preparing for recording. In NVDA, can you go BACK in navigating? Like the opposite of tab?

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2019-04-04 20:35:43

Yeah, plus, anyone who joins later sees all prior information, so catching up is easy. I have thought about it, and I don't think there is another platform that does what Discord does in the way it does to organize thigns. I'll write out my thought processes

Discord:
Pros:
* Offers text and voice chat.
* Allows great flexibility for the organization of information into different channels.
* Server admins can create and assign roles, and decide what those roles have access to, which could lead to an announcement only channel others cannot post in, so relevant information stays in view.
* Servers are easy to moderate
Cons:
*Notifications on high traffic servers can become annoying - though server admins can turn those off, and users can probably customize what to receive as well.
* Various access issues, which makes the experience not great, but is within the realm of possibility - some users choose to use the site rather than the app, and say this works better.

Skype:
Pros:
* Groups are easy to create
* It is easy to add a lot of people to a group at once.
* Skype is universally accessible across PC, Android and iOS.
* It is easy to mute a group should it become too obtrusive.
Cons:
* The group creator and all the admins they assign have virtually no control over the group.
* Anyone who is in the group can add anyone else, even if the join link is set to disabled - all the admins can do is remove that person, but they can be re-added.
* It is easy to spam a skype group, and the admins are left with little recourse for dealing with this.
* Skype groups do not use rooms, or channels; all information is in the group. While a user can scroll up to see the history of the group prior to joining - if allowed by the admins - it is rather cumbersome to do.
* Relevant information to the course will not stay in view for long.

TeamTalk:
Pros:
* Offers high quality voice chat.
* Creating channels and sub-channels is possible.
* Sharing desktops and video is possible.
* Files can be uploaded to the server.
* Channels can be set as class room, in which case, permissions need to be granted to allow people to speak, rather than allowing everyone open mic by default.
Cons:
* Purchasing a VPS or some hosting plan for team talk servers is required. There are free options within the community, but these tend to be rather unreliable and dodgy at best.
* TeamTalk can be rather demanding of bandwidth and will not handle poor connectivity gracefully.
* The chat is not persistent across client restarts, or disconnects and reconnects if done manually. This means that information posted there is very ephemeral.

Zoom:
Pros:
* Extremely easy for the end-user to access a meeting; simply click on the link you're given, and regardless if you have the app or not, you can join.
* It's easy to configure the app, and set things up as needed.
Cons:
* Zoom is a paid service, free plans allow only limited participants for a short time.
* As far as I know, only audio plans get a text chat.

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        is preferable to
I felt the passing of your wind

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