2019-03-06 06:22:15

Hi all! I just wanted to give you an update and let you know that the new achievements user interface is now complete and on the screen reader test version at https://trimpscreenreader.netlify.com

The new achievements screen is just in a big table. The first row explains how much damage you get from each achievement tier, and the first column of each row is the achievement type. So make sure your cursor is in the first column, and you can control + alt up and down to see all of the different achievement categories. Once you find a category you want to look at, you can control + alt to the right to see all of the achievements available in that category.

The first piece of information spoken in each achievement will be completed or not completed, to help make it easier to skip to the first one you haven't completed, then the tier values and a description are given if the achievement isn't locked.

This is still just the first version of the new accessible achievement screen and I can already think of a few changes I'd like to make, but I really hope this makes things much easier for everyone!

Please let me know if you have any feedback on this new screen!

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2019-03-06 10:36:16

I wonder are there ends to the levels of any given equipment? Like i have close to 20 levels of shield boots and dagger. And are there any way of knowing how much damage you could expect in a given fight? Cause i saw an achievement to reatch zone 5 without losing more than 1 fight in a zone, how do you do that? I lost like hundred times big_smile

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2019-03-06 15:38:32 (edited by Dark 2019-03-06 15:42:14)

@Green satellite, the achievements table is very cool, I'd much rather discover achievements on my own than have to check the wiki, and its nice to know what I've got and what I'm working towards, also rather ironic since I just picked up the "too many shinies" achievement this morning big_smile.

My only suggestion is that You might consider adding a text label for "close" since right now your having to guess which "clickable" at the top of the screen is to close the achievement screen, its okay when you know where it is but first time I opened the achievement screen it was a wee bit confusing, particularly since I had an achievement popup open at the same time.

@arnold18,  the way equipment works is that you can pay to upgrade equipment however sooner or later you'll also come across prestige upgrades, (usually found in side maps). These reduce your equipment back to level 1, but give a massive boost, Shield will become shield I, then shield ii, then shield iii and so on.

Its therefore not a good idea to level your equipment too high,  you don't want to be losing out when you get that prestiege upgrade.
The one strategy I haven't quite sorted myself yet, is which equipment to level where, since it seems some equipment is waaaaay cheaper than others for a similar level, and it always seems a bit strange to me that a tenth level of dagger will cost less than a first level of greatsword, but hay, such  is strategy, and I'm hopefully about to earn a perk that should fix that.

Now, as to upgrades. Trimps like a lot of incremental games has ascensions, that is when you hit a certain point, you will get a map which leads you to a time portal. This restores you to level  loses all your trimps, buildings and equipment, but has the advantage that you can get perks.
These are permanent bonuses that persist across time, and  include things like increased damage, lower equipment costs, faster breeding rate etc.

That I'm guessing is how you complete zones without losing trimps, indeed as I said earlier this time through the portal my trimps are having a far easier time of it than they did previously, and I'd imagine they'll have an easier time still next time around.

Another really cool thing about portals are challenges, which are like extra conditions to your game. Doing challenges gives various rewards, for example, I just completed the metal challenge which involves getting to zone   without the ability to assign trimps as miners, and has earned me a very cool perk I can use next time.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up +1

2019-03-06 18:45:50 (edited by Dragonlee 2019-03-06 19:05:52)

@greensatellite

thank you for being interested in improving accessibility for us blind folks. allow me to pitch in some tips as 3rd year Software Engineering student at uni with pretty good web app development experience.

In order to preserve the visual layout as it is for sighted users, there is probably NO need to make a screen reader version. From my experience seperating web apps into normal version and SR version is almost never a good idea in the long run. What almost always happens, is since the two versions are maintained seperately and obviously the normal version has much higher priority, the SR version over the years becomes buggier and more behind  as time crunches force the devs to focus on the normal version.

You can preserve the visual layout exactly as is, but tweak it for screen readers. Introducing WAI-ARIA! think of it as CSS for screen readers. it is a set of html attributes you can apply, which have no effect on the visuals, but effect how the screen reader sees the web content.

For example, let's say you use a <div>  for a custom UI element that acts as a button. You use CSS to make it look like a button, so for sighted people theyu can recognize it and know it's a button. For a screen reader it might be just plain text, so hard to say whether I should try to press it. But if I change it from <div> to <button>, it will mess up the layout and visual rendering and god knows what.

Solution: Just set its role to button like this:

<div role="button">

Now, the SR recognizes it as a button. If you press B it will navigate to it. It is in the list of buttons, etc.

Same thing can be done for almost any UI element. here is a fantastic guide on how to apply it and what WAI-ARIA is about:
https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#menu

Please read section 2 first! It is really important to realize bad ARIA is worse than no ARIA and ARIA is a promise, ie it doenst add any new functionality. It just gives a SR user the promise that they can expect certain behaviour from an UI element.

You can even set roles for more complex UI that arent part of raw html (buttons, headings, etc. like menu bars, menu items, etc. If you go to a complex web app and your SR is announcing these complex UI elements, it is becausse of WAI-ARIA.

I would roll up my sleeves and help, but I am really busy with uni, but I wish you the best of luck and thanks again for being so open to accessibility! big_smile

Edit:
Almost forgot! One of the most powerful features introduced with ARIA is live regions. If you have a UI element that is suppposed to show updating information that the user would want to be alerted to whenever it changes use aria-live. Example:

<div id="message-log" aria-live="aggressive">

Whenever you change the content of this div, SR will read the diff, so if you append, it will read the appended text.

Set aria-live="polite", if these changes are to wait for the SR to finish speaking its current thing before announcing the live region. or set it to "aggressive" if it should interrupt the SR.

Many web apps, like google apps and VS code use this simple trick to be able to send arbitrary messages to the SR to announce:
in your  app put in a div like this:
<div id="sr-message" aria-live="aggressive">
and if you want to announce something to the SR just change the contents of that div. dont forget to make it visually invisible, so it doesnt bother sighted users with this trick:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/260 … ers-i-e-fo

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2019-03-06 22:30:20

hey there
@greensatellite, thanks so much for making the game  accessible for us blind folks!
I just started it, gotten my first upgrade, my first trimps and what i can say the game is great!
My problems for now are
1. the fact that i don't quite know how the battle stats are working for example i have the fight butto nand then metal metal, wood and coordination so i don't know what that means.
2. I don't know how many resources a building costs to upgrade, i can't seem that aniwhere.
besides that, the game is super cool!
keep up the good work!

aye, i call the heroes to do my business for me!
next time you damn heroes clean up the dungeons, do it properly or you aint gettin no gold!

Thumbs up

2019-03-06 22:36:02 (edited by greensatellite 2019-03-06 22:59:58)

@Dragonlee

Thank you for the advice! I had no idea about that ARIA stuff, and it seems incredibly useful. I'm most excited about the live regions! I looked around for something like this, but I guess my google-fu wasn't strong enough as the best I found to cause the screen reader to instantly read something was to use alerts. However, I really didn't like that they blocked all other input until you hit OK. These live regions are going to be perfect for tooltips, achievements, and likely a ton of other stuff!

Regarding having a second HTML page, as I explained earlier I've already been doing this for 4 years with no problems on the Kongregate version of the game that has a slightly different HTML file than the GitHub version. I have display-only changes in the HTML files, and am careful to make sure everything is labeled up and ID'd the same way in all versions, and then my javascript files have no problems getting information to the right places. While using ARIA would mean that I could use the same version of HTML for screen readers and sighted users for many things, other things like the new achievements table, my plans to add a sub-button to buttons for tooltips, and many other things I have planned would be impossible. There are just a few things in the game that are going to need to be outputted completely differently, and I just feel like splitting the HTML pages is going to help me keep things organized and less likely to be buggy.

@Dark

I now have a label on the close button, thank you!

@razvitasca

You can see Trimp and Enemy attack and stats by going between H4 elements, they should be labeled which one is your Trimps and which are the enemies. H5 elements have the health! I'm going to work towards making this a little bit more intuitive, and changing things like "DMG" to actually say damage. If you're seeing stuff like "Metal, Metal, Coordination", you're reading the actual battle grid which unfortunately still isn't very screen reader accessible yet. To give some context, it's a big 10x10 grid with 100 total cells in it. Your Trimps start at Cell 1 in the bottom left, clear out the 10 cells on the row from left to right, then move up to the second row and continue. Coordination is an upgrade that drops after you complete the last cell of the zone, so you're seeing that upgrade on the last cell. Now that I have achievements done, my next plan is to tackle tooltips, then I will move on to the battle grid!

You not being able to see the resource costs to buy buildings or upgrades is also an unfortunate consequence of the tooltips not being very friendly with a screen reader right now. As I said above, that's my next project! Dark wrote up a decent overview on a workaround to trigger those tooltips until I get a better fix in place, here's a direct link to that post: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415040/#p415040

Thumbs up +2

2019-03-07 00:06:18 (edited by Dark 2019-03-07 00:37:20)

@razvitasca, with the costs of items what you need to do is get onto the button, EG when it  something like "hut, 10 can afford" and hit your mouseover key,  is NVdA numbpad slash to move the mouse pointer to  button. Then you can hit S to go down and read  mouseover  price etc in it. Its a wee bit clunky for now  as Green Satellite said its being worked on.

In terms of web development, I will say I've seen plenty of games that employ a screen reader only mode. Usually this is a toggle in settings which adds labels or changes the interface for some activities and its tended to work well, which is why games like Alien adoption agency and core exiles still work fine as they are even though its been god knows how long since any official access work needed to be done on them.

In terms of trimps I'll also say there are  later parts of the game that likely will require something of an interface rewrite, so having separate display files makes sense.

@Green Satellite thanks for the close button, its only a miner thing but it does help.
Screen readers read letters okay, so the dmg and blk didn't bother me, even if from a vocal perspective there isn't  any less time taken to say dmg as opposed to damage.
the only change I would suggest to the stat display is mentioning "hp" since sometimes when I'm looking through the stats at level 4 as opposed to with level 5 for hp I sometimes get the wrong number if I'm not thinking correctly.

Unfortunately, I was incorrect on the way NVdA reports the action grid, since I believe going up from the bottom actually reads the grid left to right rather than right to left. You can see this if you go down from the  since the last cell on the battle grid  always a coordination upgrade, but NvdA reads the coordination a few below the end.

At this point though to be honest, the battle grid isn't as important in and of itself, since strategically your trimps must always fight the battles in the same order and you always know what cell your on from the log.

the only main information you might need from the grid is on which cells upgrades are, to give you a notion of when it'd be best to press on with a zone, and when best to try a side map or portal.

A simple fix might be to just remove all the labels for bog standard loot,  just generate cell numbers and labels for interesting stuff.

so when you look at the map under the current enemy display you'd see something like
"Zone one, world, size 100, 20 speedminer, 34 Speedscience, 56 efficiency, 100 coordination.

Where  a side map would say something like "haunted plateau mountain, size 25, cell 25 supershield, (knowing the biome type of the map would tell you the loot anyway).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2019-03-07 04:07:58

So I've seen references to donating and a currency for donating. I've seen how to donate but nothing about a currency or a shop for it. Is this still a thing? I'd love to donate to the game and get some cool stuff.

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2019-03-07 10:19:54

You can donate if you go to "stats" and then to "more about trimps"
Unfortunately the donation currency itself is a congrigate only thing and doesn't work in other versions like the screen reader version, I did donate to the game myself simply because I really appreciate both  game and the work Green Satellite has put in for accessibility, but I agree, it would be nice to donate and get some extra bones since  imports look cool and rate of bone gathering is pretty slow.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2019-03-07 10:33:37

hello everyone, this game is awesome, and thanks to dev for working in a screen reader version! i first saw this game about a year ago, but it was not accessible as it is now. Thank you, green satellite! can someone explain me what buttons combat, story, unlocks and loot do? when i press them they are toggling, so what exactly am i toggling?

flawless victory!

2019-03-07 10:54:57

@dark, thnks so much for the help! i suppose this letsm e know what upgrades do aniway? i didn't read the mouseovers so i don't know what efficiency, bloodlust and the other upgrade i momentarily forgot what's called do.
@sky lord, as far as i went, i think they enable or disable the show of the story, combat, or loot in your log

aye, i call the heroes to do my business for me!
next time you damn heroes clean up the dungeons, do it properly or you aint gettin no gold!

Thumbs up

2019-03-07 15:02:25

@razvitasca,  you do need to read the mouseolvers at that point for this reason, both to know what things do, and get flavour text.
As I said, maximise the screen with f11, then use the NvdA command to move the mouse to the thing you want to look at (NvdA numbpad slash), then press s to jump straight there. You can do this on lots of things in the game and its important at the moment for prices of items, descriptions of upgrades and even map data.

As to  what the upgrades do, bloodlust enables auto fighting so your trimps will go on fighting without you needing to constantly hit the f key or click fight, coordination adds an extra trimp to your attacking force rasing their stats, and efficiency speeds up the speed that you the player does things, Ie if you start gathering, chopping, mining or researching, you'll do them faster and get more done.

hth.

@skylord, razvitasca is right. The buttons at the top of the log toggle what data is displayed, EG toggling combat off will no longer show the " just slew a chimp" type of  messages etc.

I sometimes found it useful myself to toggle off combat and loot and leave story and unlocks to check I was uptodate with what new stuff I'd found.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2019-03-07 16:59:50

I've consulted the wiki for things I don't understand.
I have to say though. This game is a ton of fun accessibility issues not withstanding.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my space bar. Prepare to die!

http://l-works.net

2019-03-07 18:10:22

@greensatellite

Glad you found the info useful!

Well, you know your project better than anyone, so I will not argue, but I am a firm believer in single page for sighted and non-sighted alike. Only time will tell, whether I change my stance on that.

One more thing I wanted to throw out there that I think greatly improves UX for me as an SR user (and I would assume for other SR users) and that is intelligently jumping the system focus.. It is somewhat annoying when I press a button that brings up some menu or text or whatever and then I have to navigate over to it manually. It just makes the UX not smooth. But when the system focus jumps by itself where I wanted to go, then the app feels very smooth.

So, a good thing to keep in mind when developing the game, if toggling some pane or whatever, there is only one place logically that a screen reader would want to jump to after taking that action, then just jump the system focus there automatically.

I know this kinds of complicates things, since now you have to dig into your javascript as well and might mean some things that dont have tabindex need one, which needs to be applied intelligently, but I just wanted to put it out there, in case it could improve the feel of playing the game. Like a cherry on top.

Thumbs up +1

2019-03-07 18:26:42

I did have that focus problem when playing with firefox, but Chrome works just fine.

thanks,
Michael

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2019-03-07 19:08:47

Hey Dev dude, I just sort of stumbled my way into this topic. I've read every post and I have to say; you're the man. I haven't even tried the game yet, but your overall genuine attitude toward improving your product for such a small demographic is touching and I just wish to extend my gratitude. Keep crushing it, and I look forward to getting my Trimp on.

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2019-03-08 00:49:52

@Cody_91  you cannot escape the lure of the trimptress big_smile.
The game is a tonne of fun and one of the most addictive I've played for quite some time.

What I particularly like is the way ascentions work. i remember when playing space company and being damn  that I got literally no ascension benefits at all, since even to unlock dark matter, the ascention currency you had to complete the game once, which gave you no advantage second time round thus meaning you'd spend as much time on the lower  upgrades as before, however Trimps is intended that you get further each go around, in addition it has challenge mechanics which change the game even in the first few zones you've previously seen.

I also like the way that purchasing upgrades work, and the way the game combines continuous battle with needing to constantly manage diferent resources and workers, though I've still not exactly got what the best strategy for equipment vs  upgrade purchase is (I think that's one thing which mousoever fixes will help I think, since when its quicker and easier to compare two sets of stats vs prices it'll be easier to know where is the optimum place to spend resources).

Right now I'm trying to get through another special map, which is proving quite tough, but again I think it'll be easier second time around, and at least after finishing I should be in a good position to get back to the world and press on.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up

2019-03-08 00:59:28

Wow, thank you so much for all of the support everyone! It's absolutely my pleasure to make Trimps more accessible, I'm seriously thrilled that you all are enjoying it so much!

Regarding getting in-game stuff for donations, I currently only have a shop set up on Kongregate, since they handle all of the credit card processing and chargebacks and tax forms and all of the grief that comes with that for me. I really wanted to keep the GitHub version free of a microtransaction shop from the beginning, as I personally never liked feeling constantly compelled to buy things from idle games. So while you can buy some Bones on Kongregate, the game is not balanced around needing to spend money!

@dragonlee I hadn't even considered that automatically moving focus around was an option, that's an awesome idea! I can think of lots of places where that would be helpful for setting the cursor at the right spot when opening menus and such.

I'm still pretty deep into work on the 4.11.0 content patch, but I'll try to get a few new accessibility features up within the next few days. Once I've finished 4.11.0, I'll have the Screen Reader version on a more permanent link and will be able to more regularly add new things!

Keep the feedback and ideas coming if you have any! And thank you all for helping test this stuff out!

Thumbs up +1

2019-03-08 02:05:25 (edited by Dark 2019-03-08 02:15:24)

Hi.

while it makes sense to cell donation gear through congrigate, I personally would be happy to donate to a game like Trimps. I've already spent longer with the game than I have many a commercial title (aside from the time I spend doing other things and just checking back on my trimps in another window), and since I don't mind donating I wouldn't mind helping my progress along either (that business with the four imp orts and 100 bones is pretty tempting.

One thing which might be nice might be a togglable log message about enemy condition when your trimps die, since it would save the need to constantly check enemy hp, and also give you an idea your doing progressive damage even if you need to wait to breed a new army.

I mean something like "x number of trimps just fell over, snimp is bleeding"

with condition messages being a rough indicator of the enemy's percentage of hp (the standard ones in may dicu based muds are scuffed, scratched, bleeding, wounded, near death for %80, %60 %$0 of health etc, though It'd be good to come  with unique ones for Trimps since the combat messages are quite amusing" 

That way it would be possible to roughly track how your attack is doing from the log as well especially when your in a very tough zone, and when its best to bail out.

I've also seen the wiki mention "first strike" as an ability of enemies, and when I checked the "imps" page it said those enmies were marked with a double arrow. Either I haven't run into anything with first strike yet, or because I have my screen reader not set to read punctuation (which gets irritating), I haven't noticed them, or the double arrow is a graphic.
Perhaps these abilities could [ please be added to the enemy stats display in text?

Btw, the wiki also mentioned Tirkimps had a special ability to add an increased production timer  a basic resource, I probably am missing this, indeed I didn't realise tirkimps did anything special until I ran across something about it on the wikii, which likely means I've been missing out slightly since I usually tend to be researching.

speaking of tough zones, one thing I've not quite worked out yet, is whether the bonus damage you get from completing side maps is added to the  trimp/enemy stats display or not, or if it is just something left for you to work out yourself.

When you get around to LOOKING AT the map chamber, it would also be nice to  list your total fragments next to the cost of a new map once you'd set the sliders, for example 482/28, since that would save the need to go right back up to the top of the screen and check your total when sliding the slider only a bit one way or the other.

Again, really loving the game, now on zone 35 and hoping to get to zone 43, though prices of prestiege upgrades are getting a bit crazy at this stage so I might end up bailing out early and cashing in my helium for more perks instead (especially since I've just completed the metal challenge).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up +1

2019-03-08 22:09:43

Haha, anything that's a great game or time waister, I'll play happily.
I think that I really should be playing this more, Dark makes it sound so fun. Not too many games like this have combat.

My tactical battle scripts: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dzsmqv2pgqvu1 … h.zip?dl=1
Currently, one of my favorite games is Trimps.
So I'm the Trimper Trooper!

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2019-03-09 01:20:22 (edited by Dark 2019-03-09 01:25:40)

@Green satellite, would it please be possible to have a slightly more dynamic status on the job buttons to show when you couldn't afford them, vs didn't have the workers? That would make it easier to decide whether it was better to move one of your miners/farmers/lumberjacks to trainer or explorer, rather than try and  some accommodation, and one issue I keep running into is  spending too much on building the accommodation and then not having enough left to recruit for a while. Indeed, I've got into  habit of leaving one work space open just so that I can more quickly know when I can recruit another trainer.

@keithwipf1  the game is awesome. Its an odd one for me, since I've never been a fan of fire and forget combat  where you have no control over what happens, and while I've enjoyed a few incremental games in the past, once I've seen all the upgrades and flavour text I tend to lose interest, which is why I haven't played games like sworm game or space company beyond the first ascension, or shark game beyond the first few ascenssions when I'd seen most everything  there was to see.

Then again I freely admit, ever since I first played castaways, the strategy building genre has always appealed to me (at least when it isn't a pvp hack), I love to see my people survive and  grow and build from humble beginnings to a mighty empire. I also love games that require the player to continually strategise on the fly and react to what is happening or change their play style to accomplish a given goal, especially when that  leads to more exploration.

this is why i think I've found trimps so very addictive, and why I'd highly recommend the game, that and the awesome job Green Satellite is doing with the game's accessibility.

Things were getting tough around zone 37 and I could see myself running into a situation where I would be getting new upgrades before I'd been able to afford the previous ones. I also didn't realise that respecking your perks only applied to the amount of helium you started the run with.
I suppose this is good in progression terms, since it'd be a bit disappointing to get say to zone 32, cash in 300 or so helium, then need to portal at zone 35 with only another 90 helium to play with before starting the next run, but it mean that when the going gets tough you really are best cashing in your chips and restarting.

Anyway, I've now gone through yet another portal, and am attempting the size challenge. This is an interesting one, but my perks are really making a difference, indeed had I not had to put the game down to spend an evening with my lady I probably would've  another speed achievement for the block and maybe for the wall, but hay, there will always be another turn. I hope I get further this time around, I  heard some hints about later progressions and I'm really looking forward to seeing them.

One thing I do wish the game had, was an auto storage buying system, since its not always %100 faesable to be playing all the time, and one can't always buy enough storage to keep up with time you might be spending off the game, so it'd be nice if there was an automatic mechanism to buy extra storage when your current storage got full, just so that you don't lose out on too much progress when you need to take time away from the game.

of course, idling in Trimps can only carry you so far and the best stratogy is always to play actively, and I like the fact that Trimps is an incremental game  which requires you to play very actively , but obviously there is the rest of life as well big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

Thumbs up +1

2019-03-09 07:00:30

Ok, I played the game quite a bit now. I love it and it's very playable, but here are some things I noticed / ideas.

First off, I play with jaws, it seems to play better with NVDA, I guess it's because greensatellite is testing with it or because NVDA works better in chrome or because they use the virtual cursor to navigate DOM differently and it turns out that NVDA manages it better, I don't know.

So the log updates tends to make my focus shiver. It happened to me more than once that say I wanted to buy the dagger, but the log updated and my focus moved on the shield and I bought the shield. Another thing that makes my focus move is the text update on the buttons. Say I buy the dagger, and now I can't buy another one, the text on the button changes to not affordable and it usually makes my focus go back to the shield. When there is a lot of logging, my focus is getting really crazy. However, this only happens to the DOM after the log itself, since it's the log that is updating. If I'm above the log, say in the wood or science section, no problem at all. This is why I'd preferred the log to be at the bottom of the page so I could just go to the end of the page and go up to read it. What do you think guys?

Another issue is that I noticed with NVDA there is a "End of log" heading, but jaws doesn't detect that heading. it jumps straight from "Trimps" to "Build", weird! I don't know what could be causing this, I didn't look at the source, is there something different with that heading compared to the other ones? Is it hidden?

Also, it happens sometimes that I cannot click some clickable elements. Never happened with buttons, but it happens with the "Build" heading and the "world" or "maps". It doesn't happen all the time, sometimes I press enter multiple times and it works, but some other times it just will never work, I have to launch NVDA and go click it. Part of the issue is probably caused by the tooltip being over some element I want to click. I still can access with jaws the text behind the tooltip, but sometimes the interaction with those hidden elements get messed up.

The achieves screen works great, but there is something bothering me. When I'm on a cell in the grid, it tells me the progress of the not completed achievement in that row, even if I'm on a completed achievement cell. Don't know if it's a bug, but I'd prefer to read the progress of the achievement I'm focusing, not the progress of another achievement on that row. For instance, I'd like it to read "Completed, clear 30 total zones" and if I move right "Not completed, 35/70, clear 70 total zones". Currently, it would read something like "Completed, 35/70, Clear 30 total zones". It's just an example to illustrate what I mean, I don't want the text to be exactly what I wrote, I like the way it's reading tiers and everything, it's just to show what I mean. Because, I don't know what happens if there are multiple not completed achievements on the row, which progress will it read out to me?

Oh and if people are wondering why I'm not using NVDA, I'm more used to jaws and I didn't find cool voices for NVDA and I don't know all the nifty tricks to be fast with NVDA, but that is a whole different debate. @greensatellite, just so you know, it's not rare to see flame wars between screen-readers, some say one is better than another and it's like a war of cults, the cult of NVDA and the cult of jaws. Some people use both, some people don't care, some people use other screen readers, etc. It's just like people argue over Android versus iOS and Windows versus MAC versus Linux.

Anyways, that is all for me... for now.

Reading is one form of escape. Running for your life is another. ― Lemony Snicket

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2019-03-09 07:52:09

Hi, this game's absolutely fantastic! Props to @Greensatelite for a job well done, and especially for making accessibility such a clear priority.
I'm running into a map creation problem that I'd love some help with, if anybody has any ideas for me? I'm on my third run, and somehow on the second run I did something that made the sliders disappear from my map ceation screen. This is really agrivating because all I can do is just create map after map until I find something approximately like what I'm hoping for, and I've tried everything I can think of to get the sliders/biome selection combo box back but they're very stubbornly gone and I'm stumped. Thoughts, anyone? smile

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2019-03-09 11:20:17

@Origine, With headings your probably best navigating by heading level rather than just pressing h, indeed I suspect this is why your being jumped between things a bit to much.
what Green Satellite has done is use different levels of headings as markers on the page, so heading level one takes you between resources, your trimps and the build cue, heading level 2 takes you between the tabs for buildings, jobs, upgrades and equipment, level 3 takes you from the start of the log to the zone info, 4 takes you between your trimp's stats and the enemy stats, and 5 takes you too and from enemy hp.
I  never use the h key on its own on the page at all, since using the numbers is quicker.

Likewise, with buying items your far best off using b and shift b to jump between buttons directly. I have noticed an issue with NvdA if you use screen layout that the menus  formated a bit weirdly with items and pricing on subsequent lines, but if you go buy button rather than using arrows that fixes the problem.

The only thing I do not know is how Jaws handles mousovers,  navigating through web controls should help.

hth.

@Audacity I  haven't had this happen, but I do know the map creation  screen has several controls for saving preset map  which are not labeled as yet. They show up as "clickable" with NVdA

I wonder if you've perhaps  gone on to one of those presets by mistake? Try some of the "clickable" controls just above the "create" link and you should be able to get back to the default sliders.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-03-09 13:44:12

Hello, so I wanted to finally check out the SR version, so I went to trimps.github.io/ScreenReader.html, but that gives a 404. I went back  through the posts here and that seems to be the URL, or is it something else?

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