2019-02-25 08:16:29

*** WARNING: Rant topic ahead ***

Holy crap, do I just want to rage, because it seems no matter what I wanna do with Python, it just throws up road blocks in my face. Like, every little thing that can go wrong does go wrong. For instance, PyAudio will not build on my system, I try to satisfy the dependencies, still nope, so I find a prebuilt wheel and pip doesn't want to install the freaking wheel. OK so I get bass and then pybass, and make and install that and it doesn't even import, saying that other modules - which I can see in the dir path - are not there. WX is kind of a PITA, and the forms builder is not accessible, which sucks, because that would be bad ass. Oh and nothing like to do with pyinstaller works worth a frig. So I created this little thing as a command line tool for Linux which can give you your amount of memory, converting it to whatever you want as far as units. It'll give total on the system, and it'll do percent used as well. So putting that together as an executable sound cool, right? Because it bundles the python interpreter in with it so it should run on systems that don't have python. Yeah well, it doesn't friggin work. I use cython to compile the python code into C, and pyinstaller to bundle it. After a load of fussing and annoyance, I did get the executable version to run on my system, however, when transferring it to someone else's system - to which I have SSH access - the friggin thing is saying its missing libs. Well then why did pyinstaller not include what is needed? Then I have to do this sketchy thing which I personally think is a bad idea, but maybe it works in python, I literally have to import my modules in two places, in main.py - which is what you run - and mem.pyx - which is the actual script, (main.py is just the entrypoint). That's the only way it works, but that to me screams no, don't ever do, because it seems like making a symlink that circles in on itself. But if I don't, it doesn't work. So then I try the process on windows, same deal, different errors. *Headdesks furiously*.

The thing that sucks is I like a lot about python. I like the language and its syntax, I like that you can open the interactive interpreter and dig around in the modules and inspect what's going on, and how it generates help pages from the docstrings. I like the open source nature of Python, and how there are so many modules just freely available. Chances are, you'll find what you're looking for on PyPi, but if not, try Github. That aspect is cool to me, and there's a lot to like about Python. Seriously though, I'm like done with it. Actually, I think I'm just done with coding because I suck at it, majorly. With Python though, I swear to god I'd break through a brick wall with a plastic spoon before I ever got something done in Python.

So it's no wonder people want to cling onto BGT, it's literally no wonder they do because once you know the coding concepts, you're straight. I mean, you can scream at them until you're blue in the face and know that you're right, but they still cling on, yeah well, I'd do the same thing if I was that ambitious to create something, because if you need a freaking battering ram to get through, well, probably even a battering ram wouldn't break through Python's obstenance.

OK, so like, to turn things around, how about some of you guys tell your success stories with Python. It is a real cool language, it's not difficult to get it installed and get up and running, I like the syntax of it, and the ability to just dig into it.

I felt the wind of your passing
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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-02-25 16:08:41

Yep, Python isn't always great. For one thing, you need an external module to compile Python in to .exe files. For another, it has horrible syntax and requires indentation. And then there's the thing you got into with it. I would use BGT or C++ instead.

Best regards
T--m

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2019-02-25 16:34:40

For me indentation isn't an issue, though I am just learning Java, and I was taught to pay attention to indentation.

You should've gone for the .net ...

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2019-02-25 16:51:27

My question is why do you feel the need to scream at people who want to use BGT? I see it as a bunch of people screaming at people that they should stop using a shovel to dig holes in the ground, demanding that they now embrace the excavator. Never mind that the excavator is cumbersome to set up, requires fuel, is expensive, etc, etc, and the shovel really still works fine for digging holes. I personally think it's a non issue what people want to use to code with. So they face incompatibility and lack of support, these are things they'll have to learn to be ok with, and if they're ok with it, then let them be.

Kai

This site's drama(s) needs major popcorn!

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2019-02-25 17:10:32

Does python even have a head?

I've been successfully using python for quite a few years now, and it's served most all my needs if not more. Aside from being hands down one of the easiest yet most functional languages out there, you can most likely find a myriad of documentation for basically anything. Getting an error? Google it and find an entry in stackoverflow, some github issue tracker, reddit, or all the above. If you think one of the easiest languages known to man is giving you trouble, please try c/c++. Once you figure everything at least works at a partial level, welcome buffer overflows/program has stopped responding/linker errors/inconsistencies/hours upon hours of unexpected development time. If your having these issues with a language of such simplicity, I can only conclude you've had little practical programming experience up until now. I've built pyaudio, wrote several extensions to and wrappers around pybass, and played with pyinstaller to a great degree. Your problem might be cross distro incompatibility, lack of hidden imports for unpopular modules, bad practices in your workflow, I mean it's really hard to tell without more specific information for debugging purposes.
GUI programming is probably the only point I find myself agreeing with here, on the wx front at least. Great power unfortunately comes with great difficulty here, in fact more difficulty than is strictly necessary. You'll eventually find yourself getting into the swing of things, but it's understandable if pythonic logic doesn't fully cary over. This is why many mainstream developers find themselves using TK. It's builtin, easier, and just works for everyone aside from us with less than functional optic nerves. I don't know if your post was one of rage after a long day of errors or actual curiosity/wonder, but I highly recommend targeting your issues individually instead of wrapping them all up into a list of reasons for why the language is infuriatingly difficult. It really isn't. Then again I suppose that's on background.


tmstuff000, no comment. Just, no comment. I wouldn't at all say python syntax is horrible, that's a complete matter of opinion. Like saying the zeros at the end of your name are horrible. I think they're unnecessary and overkill, but you might think the zeros are actually quite cool.
Indentation is absolutely normal, even for most users of your beloved c++ and BGT. Also, the point about python specific need for an external module in order to freeze into executables is terribly invalid. Did you know the same rings true in c++? Check the GNU compiler collection, visual studio/microsoft compilers, clang, other less popular ones I'm probably forgetting.

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2019-02-25 17:40:00

@2 Regarding indentation, its something you should be doing anyway, if you're not, then don't ever expect to contribute to any open source projects or really collaborate with any other sighted devs.

@4 BGT is over, its done, its time to move on. Just two days ago I made a little thing for someone only to have it nuked as soon as it compiled by windows defender. So to work in it, you need a root BGT folder that's excluded from defender. Then you get into the fact of packaging your game. Do you really expect people to deal with that? It's not exactly intuitive to add exclusions to Defender, you could provide step by step instructions in your documentation, but again, it looks shoddy that you have to have them do that. Then you get into the limits of the language, and where people have hit those limits quite harshly. In the end, noone can make them stop using it, but its absurd that they continue to do so.

@5 Well I usually hit snags with every language, so yeah its me, I just suck at coding and need to stop doing it, but I hit way more with Python than any other.

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2019-02-25 17:42:39

I agree with Kai. I don't know why people code shame. If someone wants to start with BGT there's nothing wrong with that. If they want to move on later because they found some limitation they weren't comfortable with than that's cool too. At least they learned the basics of programming. Heck, how many of us started learning with Qbasic, Pascal, or Visual Basic? I would have absolutely loved to have had BGT around when I was just starting to learn programming.


As for Python, I've never had any major issues that I couldn't find a fix or work around for. That's just the nature of any language. You're always going to find things that you would like to be different. That's the nature of anything really.


I'm not saying it was always smooth sailing mind you. I've spent countless hours trying to track something down on Google to make things work. So I empathize with your pain. But I can say the same thing about BGT, C++, Swift, Lua, and any other language I've used in the past.


The only right language is the one you get to work for your needs. Don't let people bother you about how you should be doing it there way because that's the popular thing. That's basically what the arguments for and against different languages boil down too. I have seen legit reasons people don't use BGT any more, but nothing that deserves the vitriol that some veterans have for it.


I have gotten openAL to work for me in Python and that's what I use at the moment.  That will probably change in the future, but right now it serves my needs.


I put things in my own wrappers and call those functions in my main program so that if I want to use something else later on, I don't have to make major revisions to my main code.


Coding might not be your thing. There's nothing wrong with that. There's much more to writing a program (especially games) than their coding. There might be another job as a developer that you enjoy doing more such as writing story elements or designing sound effects.


Programmers are a dime a dozen. Good stories and sound libraries are not. In fact I paid quite a bit more than a dime for the sound library I use.


Audio games are badly in need of good story tellers. There are almost no long form RPG's, and you can pretty much forget about finding one like Final Fantasy. A Heroes Call was a great achievement, and I am privilaged to have had the very  small role in bringing it to life that I did, but the story was below average when you compare it to mainstream 50 to 100 hour epics.


Even when talking about Action games, a great story can make the difference between a game you play and a game you remember.


I know this reply wasn't super informative, but I hope it's uplifted you in some way. You're not the only one to want to toss a computer out the window. We all have this rant inside us from time to time.

If you're wrong, you're wrong.
You can follow me on twitter @s_luttrell and an almost never used Facebook account at skluttrell.

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2019-02-25 17:45:09 (edited by Ethin 2019-02-25 17:48:55)

@5, let's see... allow me to amend to your list of compilers... ah, here we go: Watcom, Intel C/C++, Tiny C Compiler, Digital Mars C/C++, Borland... I could go on. And yeah, fully agree with you on the external dependencies thing. C++ can get ridiculously complicated sometimes, but its not all bad. It certainly is (probably) the finest language out there in terms of power, flexibility, library support and so on, though Python is quickly catching up to it in regards to flexibility (its most likely surpassed it in library support, though that's debatable since at a guess over 40 percent of the Python libraries are C/C++ DLLs).
@tmstuff000, please go write a memory allocator or a stable security infrastructure in your beloved C++ and you will find that it can become very, very difficult, and can become a very dangerous road if your not careful. I've never written either of these (memory allocator/security library) but know the pitfalls of manual memory allocation, memory security, and so on. Its not as wonderful as roses. In fact, it can get as dirty as a dumpster, and as dangerous as a battlefield that's extremely active. Bjarne Stroustrup put it best when he said, “C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off.”

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-02-25 17:48:07 (edited by pauliyobo 2019-02-25 17:50:15)

@2. Don't know what to say
Horrible sintax? I don't know, isn't the horrible sintax a matter of opinion?
About the indentation, that can be hard if you've never used it, but I ensure you that c++ stile guides actually tell to follow even if minimal indentation.

if you wish,  you could give a look at my github profile.
If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2019-02-25 17:54:35

hi,
regarding c/c++:
1. you require libraries, even sometimes you should compile them yourself.
so, this is invalid.
2. unfortunately, c++ isn't like bgt, although bgt's syntax is similar to c++. you will know what i'm saying when you grasp the pointers, inline assembly, templates etc and you know how to use them.
3. different C++ compilers have different abi, meaning that sometimes a code might work in one of them, while at the same time, it might not work on another as expected
now, going to python
1. what is your python version?
2. what is your operating system?
3. what is the error that you get?
4. what was the command, or what was the line of code?
5. what is the expected behavior?
also, i have pyinstaller, pyaudio, pysdl2, pygame, and many many other packages, and all of them work fine!.

bitcoin address: 1LyQ3hziMC2DTnCtgM3V1zfuZ73P3CYT9P

2019-02-25 18:37:05

Oh and regarding tk, the thing is completely inaccessible, when you create a frame and add controls to it, you have literally no access to said controls. The screen reader acts as if it's focused on a void or something.

I felt the wind of your passing
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I felt the passing of your wind

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2019-02-25 18:37:18 (edited by Xoren 2019-02-25 18:45:06)

Re: Post 4.
BGT may be over for *you*, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a crime for someone else to use it. If this is the first language they started with, it's probably the easiest one, and it introduces them to programming concepts and such. I understand all the disadvantages of BGT, but that was in no wise the point of my post. Just because they still enjoy plain toast and you've moved on to cream cheese bagels, it doesn't mean people should be yelling at the person who likes plain toast and shaming them into switching.
SKLuttrell understood the point of my post perfectly. Case in point, I start messing around with programming with Applesoft BASIC. Even though it's useless in this day and age, if I could get a good emulation of the Apple II E, I'd still play with writing something in Applesoft, just because it was such a simple language to work with.
Furthermore, your yelling at someone to switch to a different language does nothing to foster a healthy adoption of any other language, nor does it do anything to bolster the confidence of up and coming programmers. Now if you wrote them explaining all the pitfalls and shortcomings they'll have to contend with by using BGT, then explain to them that despite those disadvantages, it's still a good language to learn with to allow programming concepts to sink in, then reiterate that when they're ready to move on there will be a community of programmers willing to help them (assuming this is true), that'd be a perfectly acceptable, civil, and honest approach. It's just all the BGT assassination on the forum that baffles me. So Windows Defender doesn't like BGT, so it's not supported, so it has bugs that'll never be resolved... I don't see that someone else using BGT is hurting those programmers who rail so mightily against it.
The perfect example of this is that of Thomas Ward. He spent so much time putting down people who used any language that wasn't the one he was using, spent so much time changing to the latest and greatest programming language, and yet never produced a solid product. Instead, all we ever got was year after year of officious sounding notices explaining, for one reason or another, why product X would yet again be delayed. Had he poured that energy to actually coding the game in a language he knew and was comfortable with (rather than upgrading for the sake of upgrading), he might've been able to put out something concrete.
Perhaps if some of that energy were poured instead into coding games, we'd have more fun and less putting down other peoples' choices of coding languages?

Kai

This site's drama(s) needs major popcorn!

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2019-02-25 18:46:13

Hi,
I have used Python for basically whatever I do and release to the public. It was not the first language I learnt, but by far is the one which I can feel more confident with over the years. I understand people arguing that C/C++ is better, faster and stuff like that, though you just need to take a look to a medium sized project to see how the complexity of mantaining the source code is evolving along with the program's code. At the end, people choose what works better for them.
I can completely understand your pain about python not working in some situations and working in others. I remember having difficult times when dealing with certain features present on my system and, due to some reason noone would understand, absent from other's. So when I was building a distributable version of any project it would work in my machine, but as soon as someone else without, say, win32com, was trying it, the thing never worked. As others already suggested, I'd check the source code and take a look about how are the imports evaluated. I have noticed sometimes that makes a big difference from a non working package to another one that works perfectly fine.
I consider a horrible syntax is as subjective as a beautiful one. Python is very easy to read and understand and, in case people don't like indentating, that's basically what everyone else around does for any other popular programming language, so no way.

2019-02-25 18:54:13

@12, I could argue that Python teaches you programming concepts as well. Ironcross32 has a point when he says that your average user (most of the people on here in other words) are not going to want to add a game to windows defender just to play it. They're not going to want to add a game to any antivirus program to play it. If you can give us several reasons how BGT is (somehow) better at teaching programming concepts to new programmers than Python is (despite the fact that Python is pretty much the number one programming language on the planet right now), please, feel free to elaborate on them. The fact that Python is the number one programming language in the world right now is a huge advantage for it, and that fact alone will sway many to its side.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-02-25 19:03:36

Re: Post 12.
You're completely missing the point. I'm neither arguing the merits of BGT over Python, nor Python over BGT. Re-read my postings. I'm saying let people code how they will and learn as they wish with what they wish. As long as they understand the pitfalls of the language they're learning (and they all have them), why do people care so much what ever language they want to use? Why does it matter so much to you that they *have* to be eating cream cheese bagels, rather than enjoy the plain toast that they like?

Kai

This site's drama(s) needs major popcorn!

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2019-02-25 19:19:47

I wonder if a signed BGT program would pass as valid for an antivirus software. You know, if the certificate has already some reputation the executable file would inherit such reputation in smartscreen and that should work similarly in AV'S.

2019-02-25 19:27:27 (edited by Ethin 2019-02-25 19:35:37)

@15, the AV issue is one reason. The lack of 3D is another. The poor networking and DLL support is another. The vendor lock-in is another. And so on. Your comparison doesn't make much sense, unfortunately. BGT's not even a programming language. Oh, and the lack of cross-platform support. Again, if you can give me legitimate reasons on how BGT would be better for new people to start off with instead of jumping into Python, please do. I ask you again because that pretty much seems like what your preaching here. You might like old and decrepit programming languages that are obsolete, but I'd rather introduce someone to a programming language that is actually being maintained rather than one that's (say in the future) 20-30 years out of date. The other issue with these obsolete programming languages is that they teach bad practices. The practices aren't bad now, not yet at least, for BGT anyway, but give it 3-4 years and C++/Python will be on a totally different wavelength. We need to introduce people to Python ASAP purely because the more updates the language receives, the further and further it pulls away from BGT, and the harder and harder it is to switch, which is the vendor lock-in that I was talking about. If you want to program a computer, you need to keep up with the times. That is exactly why Thomas Ward kept switching so much; technology moved far faster than he could adapt to, and he fell behind. That is exactly why I always build my C++ projects with the latest C++ standards and don't use (say) C++11 or C++03; I'd rather have my code up to date and make it much easier for people to contribute to (or modify in the future) rather than stick to old standards and practices that were obsoleted by future practices or standards.
@16, I doubt it. AV's don't work like that. No good AV would just check the signature and if it looks reputable it'll let it pass. That'll pass smart screen, but not windows defender/malwarebytes and all the other AVs out there.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-02-25 19:35:37

Re: Post 17.
I again reiterate, if a person learning or using BGT is cognicent of these pitfalls and is still fine with using the language, why do you still have so many issues with them using it? Is their use of the language personally importuning you in some way, shape, or form? Is their learning the language in some way obstructing the execution of your own ability to produce content in Python? I'll wager the answer to both is no, and if that's the case, why does it matter so much to you that they want to use BGT when they understand the difficulties that might arise from sticking to the language? I'd rather someone use BGT and produce a game people can play should they wish to traverse any obstacles that might be involved, than someone being turned away from BGT, who may not have an inclination to learn another programming language at that time, and so produces no content. Basically, live and let live.

Kai

This site's drama(s) needs major popcorn!

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2019-02-25 19:37:19 (edited by Ethin 2019-02-25 19:45:46)

@18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. Remember that since you have to add the entire folder to the AV exceptions list, a virus can happily find that folder and nest in there and you'd never know until it was too late. On windows, such a risk is exponentially higher than it is on any other platform. Saying that "oh, use common sense" only works so far, since viruses have this nasty habit of ending up on computers no matter what you try. You can avoid them, though there are some very crafty and creative shapes viruses can take. And yes, the chance of the virus happening to come across that folder is low, but not null and void altogether. Its better to attempt to eliminate a risk like that as best you can rather than creating more for yourself just to play a game.
Edit: another disadvantage to BGT is the lack of HTTPS support. As HTTP/2 and TLS 1.3 become more common, more and more sites will most likely switch to it, and I guarantee you that most web servers will come with HTTP/2 enabled by default. Since HTTP/2 does not allow insecure connections, BGT will not be able to access anything internet-related that uses HTTP/2, and people will need to deliberately make whatever their accessing insecure just so that BGT can access it.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-02-25 20:05:43

Re: Post 19.
I think the fact that you keep pointing out more and more flaws as perceived by you neatly illustrates the fact that you're just not getting the point I'm trying to get across. I'm also not mentioning anywhere that you would be mandated to assist the aspiring programmer to learn their defunct language. After all, take Aprone as an example. He's perfectly happy coding in Visual Basic 6, and people are still fine with playing his games. Is there an issue that he likes VB6 rather than the latest and greatest programming language?
Crazy Party is a pretty popular BGT game, as is BK3 etc. The evidence is there that game players aren't as picky about what programming language developers use. So long as games are being made.
And yet all these players and coders who are using these defunct and unsupported languages aren't hurting you personally in any way, so why rail against people using BGT. Perhaps if they came up to you specifically and asked for help, you might say you refuse to help people who use BGT, but I've seen some of you guys jump into general topics just to derail the conversation into a public shaming of the language, and by proxy those who ue that language. Being that this forum is supposed to be promoting the creation of audio games, it seems counter intuitive that we should be perfectly fine berating developers who'd like to learn a language that isn't "the accepted norm".
For the sake of sparing other readers from this back and forth, though, I'm going to just let my point stand that we should live and let live, allow people to code as they wish in whatever language they wish, be it Python, C++, Assembly, or Ancient Greek.

Kai

This site's drama(s) needs major popcorn!

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2019-02-25 20:55:55

@21 BK3 was coded in HSP

Also many flaws have already been pointed out in BGT, its author has pretty much urged no further use of it. Perhaps urged is too strong a word, perhaps publiclly disclaimed use of it. There is also the fact that BGT in its own right gives you everything you need. So you realize you want to move away from it, then enter the world of dependency hunting and so forth. Nah, why do that now when there is shrinking need for BGT in today's market. I don't know about you, but I would not be asking people to open a hole in their system just to play my game. BGT gives a false sense of how programming really is. It was fine for back in the day when audio games were not complex. Now that they are, the underlying technology needs to be there to support the features people expect in a modern audiogame. BGT has very limited external library support and no ctypes support. For so many reasons and more, people need to just drop it.

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2019-02-25 22:33:47

People expect AAA quality from modern audio games. That's just not happening without a budget. Who is making audio games with a decent budget? cause The Gate was somewhere in the neighborhood of $1k, and people still complained about the sounds and acting. Switching to Python changes none of that. Like, what changes if VGStorm games were made in Python? The antivirus thing, and an extra 12mb of file size.
Does AHC have passable quality? Well, congrats; that was over $10k, and still commercial.
Swamp and BK don't use super realistic 3d virtual reality orgasmosound, and are still big deals, many years after their release.
Don't misunderstand me, Kakarot. I've been trying to make games in Python, too. Mysteriously, the BGT games are the only ones that get ... uploaded to Sendspace, mostly because of *rereads post#1* ... nothing to do with those, actually, even though those very problems are a serious barrier to doing anything that isn't a side-scroller. But it's mostly just the same crap that I'm always whining about. It's just worse with Python because it has dependency cascades along with all the problems I left Java for in the first place.
Sure, BGT doesn't support 3d sound. ... Wait, no, I was told to use ctypes to get fmodex to work with Python, which is different from Genoa's BGT wrapper for Fmodex only in that it has better support for geometry and reverb. (And I wrote a C wrapper that should make reverb available to BGT, if I can figure out htf my compiler broke and fix it).
We are poor and cannot use drag-and-drop gamedev tools. AAA games are better compared to Holywood. It's a miracle every time an audio game that isn't mostly crap is released, given what we have to work with. I don't care what language it's in; I care if it's fun. Fun does not require hyper realistic 3d AAA audio. It requires good game design, and good content to go with it certainly helps.
...
*sigh* pumping out generic FPS games that are basically Audio Dramas with combat would be a viable strategy to succeed at audio games, wouldn't it? ... OK, someone try this, and I'll try to come up with a story to fail to convince you to make into  one of these. You know, because everyone and their dog is going to have one to request if it actually works.
But sure, BGT isn't so great if what you want is a first person short film with fights. Javascript might be, if it wasn't even more convoluted than Python when it comes to PLAYING AN EFFKING SOUND! Which brings us back to the nightmare of dependency scavenger hunts, along with the bonus round that is dependencies mysteriously breaking for no apparent reason but also somehow working differently if you import modules in a different order even though that wasn't the case on the other account and DOCTOR OCTO-MOTHER-FUNDIN'-GONOPUS BLBLBLBLAAAAAA!

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2019-02-25 22:52:53

oh yeah I can't even play a god damn sound in python, its infuriating.

Also, point me at a game that has come out recently, or has been recently updated that's written in BGT. Not many contenders, as RS has shut down. I guess FF is still running. OK I'll give you The Great Cheese Robbery, because even though its not complex and doesn't require much in the way of strategizing, its got a lot going for it in terms of polish, and pick up and playability. Other than that, what do we have. We have nothing, or not much of anything except clones and more clones. SO if people want to use BGT, then use it, come on, produce a game.

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2019-02-25 22:59:23

I have a big ECTAS CHANGELOG I've been sitting on, if that counts? (It doesn't count.)

Some of my games
Keep up to date by following @Jeqofire on twitter!
Ear Ninja?

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2019-02-25 23:18:06

Even the guys who have relied on BGT as a staple of their development have moved away from it. All the new games that have come out with it are not really good. Mostly coding exercises for people. Some of those have potential, but were released extremely too early, which is another thing that you see more and more.

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I felt the passing of your wind

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