2019-01-31 20:25:07 (edited by queenslight 2019-02-02 12:36:22)

So,

Since there is a nice debate on Windows and Mac gaming (which can be found over here , I ask the question in its own thread:

"Why aren't more developers  wanting to port their titles  over to the Linux platform?"

In addition, since WINE 4.0 has now been released, why worry! Yes, not all games are gonna work via WINE obviously, though many will (especially after removing that "NVDA.dll" file.)

This discussion ain't just for getting help with running your favorite game running on Windows, but also to have some "friendly debate" on the matter. I am however gonna expect bashing from "Windows" fans I'm sure.

So, which games have a Linux port already?

The only "official" ones I know of, are

1. RS Games
2. Sound RTS
3. Quentin C's PlayRoom Web Client

For "Arch" users (including folks  running the Jenux OS distro,) an archive featuring all of the available "PCS DOS" games (including the "DOSBox" emulator,) is available in the AUR (specificly the "Jenux" one.)
NB. If any of the above is incorrect for any reason, correct me please!

Most  interactive fiction games and MUDS of course work under Linux, though the client you use of course will vary. I'll talk more about that down the line.

Anyway, time to hear your input people... Also if you are Linux user (regardless if you use it alongside Windows or Mac,) which distro do you use for gaming on?

Take care all!

2019-02-01 00:16:05 (edited by Ethin 2019-02-01 00:17:58)

That's the problem though, and I'll repost the same question I never got a reply too over in the topic you linked too -- why play games in wine when Windows is obviously superior? As a Stack oerflow post put it, the usual cycle of wine is:
while [ user is not out of patience ]; do
    Fiddle some more with wine settings
    Try again
done
Wine is almost as unstable as bitcoin; a game might work on it in one version and then not work at all in another. The problem with wine is to get anything good out of it you have to fuck with it. A lot. With Windows, you hardly need to do any tinering -- install windows, get NVDA and all the required libraries, and run the game. Game has graphics? No problem, locate the games graphics settings and turn them on or off (depending on who you are). Game has DSOUND support? No problem, turn it on! Game has spacial audio and SRS surround sound? No problem, turn it on! With wine its: game has graphics? Tinker with it for a few weeks until something finally works. Game has spacial audio and SRS surround? Wait, gotta do some more tinkering..... wait a minute, wine doesn't support that.... woopsies! Game has DirectX support for DirectX 11 and later but nothing earlier? Too bad! And I know, I'm probably wrong on some of this but wine just isn't designed for gaming. Yes, most older games from like 2002-2006 work, if your lucky. But you can't guarantee absolute stability with wine, all the time.
And, apologies, but it seems like your asking these just to advertise Jenux. I've already gave in the topic in off-topic why Jenux shouldn't be available ATM (its not exactly well-tested outside a VM and the script is messed up and still makes too many assumptions and causes too many breakages to be considered even close to "production ready").

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-02-01 04:04:45 (edited by queenslight 2019-02-01 04:33:27)

Nah,

This topic is for "all" distros, not just the Jenux one.
Ubuntu, Slint, Fedora, Opensuse, Manjaro, all of those.

Also, I assume you haven't seen the following blog entries from a guy nicknamed "Storm Dragon" on the WINE subject.

https://stormdragon.tk/setting-up-wine- … ble-games/

https://stormdragon.tk/gma-games-in-wine/

https://stormdragon.tk/more-audio-games-in-wine/

NB. I try to link directly to where the topics in question is concerned, so that context isn't lost...

2019-02-01 06:05:07

@3, yeah, I haven't seen his latest stuff. But still, my question remains...

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-02-01 10:28:43

@4

In that case, time to spread this thread accross social media, and see if folks answer the call, thus posting on here, or coment elsewhere on this subject.

Honestly though, it may also be do to the simple fact, not enough people have the patience either.

2019-02-02 01:59:35

Would love to know if and how anyone has gotten Swamp working under Linux. I thought maybe the key was running "wine checkup.exe" and pressing enter a time or two, which is what I initially did under Windows, but "wine swamp.exe" just opens a window and promptly closes it. No unusual error messages on the console. I expect I'm missing a winetricks package but am not sure which one.

As for why anyone runs one OS over another, I wonder if we might have a thread with tips about how to game on one OS, without it devolving into a "why do you use that?" fest? It's a fine question, and I'm sure *someone* would be happy to answer, but for me it's very much a personal preference thing. Accessibility-wise Linux struggles a bit, but it's improving, and in terms of maintaining a running computer, I've found Linux easiest between MacOS and Windows. Hell, at the moment my main OS is Chrome OS, I have Linux running in Crouton, and I can spin up VMs of Windows 10 and eventually MacOS. I have tools running in each that work better in that particular environment--browsing in Chrome OS, my command line task/time-trackers under Linux, and VSCode under Windows--and I routinely switch between each OS and perform whatever task best suits it. An additional benefit to Chrome OS is that my computer can upgrade and, barring catastrophic hardware failure, is almost guaranteed to boot to an accessible and internet-connected browser, and if it doesn't, then in most instances the environment prior to the failed upgrade will boot and I'm back in business. For *me* that's the best possible setup, but there is no objective best, so questions like "Why should I/you/anyone use Windows/Linux/a Mac" are meaningless if you're using something you're happy and productive with.

But ahem, Swamp under Linux. I have it running in a VM currently but it's a bit of a mess, so if I can run it in Wine then I'll be happier when I'm ready to load up and plow through some zombies.

2019-02-02 12:34:30

@6
That is not a bad idea! Though someone else who has more experience in getting games working and the like, should create said thread.

As of next week in fact, I willl be switching to Linux full time, though I'll share all that later on among the Off Topic Room next week, after my two new Dell Venue 11 Pro chargers come Monday.
The one I currently have is "Broken," the usual "bending pens" problem.

NB. Gonna update the title of this thread to reflect that Chrome OS is being talked about here too.

Oddly enough, some folks are playing "Scrolling Battles" using WINE, who sadly aren't on this forum.

2019-02-02 15:36:11

What about cyclepath?
If cyclepath works, which it probably will, then the way to get this done is to get people to use javascript and electron. Or python, but that will still require more work to be done for cross-platform games. If adoption is to be boosted with new devs, an audiogaming guide will greatly help, since the bgt language tutorial is so streight-forward compared to something like learning electron. Bgt also works for just about everyone, since you either use Windows or learn to use wine if you don't use Windows, **provided** the game is not very complicated (3d audio won't be coming to bgt cleanly). Not many people are willing to do the work though, including me.

Roel
golfing in the kitchen

2019-02-02 16:57:32

@8

Yes, cyclepath does work on a Chromebook, same goes for many HTML5 audio titles. Though, make sure the Chrome OS device is a highly specked out one, especially for running "Android" games.
Well, I guess it depends on the games in question.

For example, playing  any of the Choice Of Games titles from the Chrome Web Store

2019-02-02 17:36:56

I'm afraid again, my question is similar  to that in the Mac topic. What practical good does  Linux have? What would using any version of Linux let me do that I can't do on windows.

I'm afraid for Linux this is a particular question, since Linux is so much built from the ground up and requiring  a heavy amount of understanding and customising to use, the only people I've tended to run into using Linux are people with an intrinsic interest in information technology itself and how all the back end components of an os works. Heck, whenever people start talking about Linux it seems like almost the classic Wittgenstein definition of a language game big_smile.

That is fair enough if its people's interest, I'm certainly not going to knock someone for having their own preferences, but for myself, whose interest with any sort of information technology always starts with the practical question "okay so what can I do with it" Linux seems rather like a lot of extra effort for less than tangible benefits, especially considering that at least several of the open source solutions for linux are not quite up to the same standard as windows (I tried Liber office and Writer and sad to say found it not up to the standard I'd expect in MS word).

I also recall Tom Ward noting that Orca voice wise wasn't ideal as a screen reading platform, and he was a habitual linux user albeit he ran a windows machine at the same time, though manifestly that was in 2014 and matters likely have changed a lot since then.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-02-02 17:57:33

I mean, what practical good does a chese burger have? Why should I eat a chese burger for lunch instead of, say, a bowl of chili or pasta? You can give me reasons, but at the end of the day they're *your* reasons. I can tell you why *I* run Linux, you can tell me how those reasons aren't valid or accurate because Windows... But what would be the point? At the end of the day it's really a matter of what anyone finds more productive. Besides, the points you've referenced in your message apply to me. I've used computers for three decades, have a solid understanding of how they work, and prefer Linux/Linux-based platforms to everything else, and that's after spending years trying to use Windows 7/8/10 daily. So your description applies to me, and because it does, I use the platform you say would be appropriate for me, and gaming is just one of many things I do with my computers. If you're happy with Windows, and that's practical for *you*, then nothing I say should matter and we should continue using our choices.

Sorry, I'd just like to see a "I use a non-mainstream OS, let's talk about how to make it work for X" thread without everyone having to justify their choices. If this isn't that thread and we should open another, that's fine. But invariably threads like this on *any* blindness-related forum tend in that direction, and it'd be nice to have an exception. smile

2019-02-02 18:29:01

@nolan, the reason I asked about "practical good", was not to bash linux anymore than I was attempting to bash the mac nor to claim there is anything wonderful about windows, nor to decry anyone who uses Linux, again as you said yourself why can't we just have a rational discussion here?

For myself, the first question I ask about any computer is "so what does it do!" What games can I play,  will it help me browse the net or write better, does it do anything particular that another platform does not?

I never considered getting an Iphone until I saw all the aps, games etc available for the platform. I decided to get windows 10 rather than a mac because it seemed that I'd need to be using emulation on a mac to play a lot of games and so on.
I just ask the same question as regarding Linux as I'd ask of any other computer setup.

if unfortunately the only answer is "well some people like it because they like it and that is that", then there is not much else to say, but equally not much else to recommend Linux to someone looking at it from another platform either as indeed you implied with your cheese burger example.

Hope this makes sense.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-02-02 18:51:52

Sadly, most  of the blind Linux Gamers haven't  shown up here, thus getting feedback from them may take awhile.

As for Orca, starting out with the Orca Screen Reader Help Pages , should help out with things, same with the official Orca Mailing List

2019-02-02 20:10:18

I'd actually like to know a bit more myself... I was hesitant to try macs but gave them a shot when I got the opportunity.  To me, linux seems like, well, like a daunting pile of blocks that require more push and shove than I'm used to.  Of course, I realize I'm speaking from the point of a spoiled brat who always just, has computers work rather than having to go and make them work, which is the way Linux seems to me.  I get it, Linux powers lightbulbs, fridges, televisions, the world... OK!  Cool!  But to get all of that complexity out of it there seems to be a massive tweeking requirement involved, unless I'm fundamentally missing something.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2019-02-02 20:25:25

Yeah linux has that at the moment, but also keep in mind it'll run just fine on 15 year old computers ment for xp. Besides, cross-platform developement is not super hard, if you are already doing Windows and mac getting it working under linux should not take that much more time. There are linux distro's that don't require a lot of tweaking for a normal user like ubuntu, but accessibility can break under linux, and there's no company to blame since it's all vollenteers. On the other side though, you and only you decide what software you get. The capabilities of your hardware are the limit, not your operating system. You can't unlock features in linux for a price. In Windows or Mac Os, if you don't like something, too bad. In linux, just install another desktop, distro, whatever.

Roel
golfing in the kitchen

2019-02-02 21:05:46

Below, are links to distros which you can easily set up without much fuss, and customize to your liking.

Ubuntu Mate:
http://ubuntu-mate.org
Ubuntu:
http://ubuntu.com
Solus:
https://getsol.us/
paldo:
https://www.paldo.org
Trisquel:
http://trisquel.info

Also, have a look at the following:

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/easy-wind … ux-switch/

For more non-Linux gaming talk, feel free jump on over to the Going Linux thread in the "Off Topic Room."

2019-02-03 09:04:01

My problem with Linux is this. Linux is free, as in free speech. As in free speech, there is free speech that is good, bad, and speech that directly goes against the blind, like "we want this app to be as pretty as possible, and don't have time to add accessibility support." Linux, fundamentally, can never be completely accessible unless all developers agree on it, and they *never* will, not all of them.

I tried Linux again a few weeks ago, on Fedora 29. I got everything working fine, even PPSSPP works okay, except that the L and R buttons don't work on my Xbox controller...
I got accessibility set up fine, except OcrDesktop relies on X11, and Fedora comes with Wayland by default and I didn't want to mess with another config file...
I got Wi-fi and sound set up the way I want, except the Gnome setting center is pretty inaccessible...
I got RH-voice installed, but Orca wouldn't use it...
I got Emacspeak installed, but Voxin wasn't available for Fedora 29, 28, 27, 26...
All these problems lead to a simple answer, Linux just isn't good enough for me. Before Fedora, I also tried Slint, which uses older packages for just about everything, and is not friendly for a beginner.

To put this on games topic, there are very few games for Linux because few blind people use Linux, for good reason really, unless they really hate Windows that badly and believe Apple to be spying on its users.
One last thing: I remember reading on an email list that blind computer users shouldn't use a operating system chiefly because of ideals. I second that, as Linux is always going to be behind in accessibility unless more thought is given to it by developers of desktops, applications, and window managers, and this inaccessibility is why people don't use, or develop, for Linux.

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