so I had some questions. Is it possible to make NPC voice lines randomise, so you can get sometging different each time, also same for the rest of it. It would be amazing if you could have multiple sounds tied to an object type that would play at random, example, you might go into a house, and open a dresser, then take out a knife. Also will you be able to compile your sable games into a windows executable so you could run it on any machine?
so, yet another product to make things easier for people and make it so they don't ever have to do work, graite! what happens if it ends up that the language it uses is shit? what happens if it doesn't work correctly? I'll probably still check this out, but i'm probably going to use actual code, because it makes me less of a lazy person
Yes, this engine is for those who can't code. Sounds like this engine is not for you, at all. Because you are able to code, I'll recommend you to pass this topic, do some amazing coding, be a less lazy person, make your own shit and stop calling people who can't code lazy people. Again, this engine is clearly not for you when writing such comment. It is for people who even don't care about the code, but just want an easy creation tool to help them creating the game they wanna develop, without having to mess with code they aren't able to learn anyway.
Let me take an other example: Websites. CMS systems like Wordpress and others are made for those who don't wanna sit handcoding websites. If you wanna write all the code yourself, then fine. Just do it. But if you wanna be, in your own words, a lazy person, there are other alternatives such as CMS systems, which lets you make a website without having to code.
Do what you want. Code your own games from scratch if that's what you want. But don't say between the lines in projects like this, that people who can't code are lazy persons. You didn't said that directly, but you said that between the lines in the following sentence:
I'll probably still check this out, but i'm probably going to use actual code, because it makes me less of a lazy person
By saying this comment, this engine is not for you for sure...
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D
I agree. coding maybe will be better.because with coding you can do anything that you want.you are not restricted
maybe this will be good for me at some point.but I will try to learn python.because personally I like 2d side scroller games better than RPG
Even if you don't write code yourself, using something like this doesn't make someone a lazy person, because they still have to design the world, characters, diologue, and so on...
I myself am offle at math, so can't; and won't; ever be able to program on the scale required to make an RPG such as the ones this tool claims it can make.
At Lemm, is it going to be possible to make NPCs have some spoken diologue and some tts diologue?
If it was, a person could record a few lines for the NPC if they wish but stil use text.
In your example in the video with the statue, the intro text explaining why the en keeper needed said statue could be spoken, but the other text wouldn't need to be.
This way people who have limited funds; or friends; to record lines could still have the best of both worlds.
Also, would it be possible to make an nPC have a custom sound when you reach them instead of the throat-clearing sound that's used?
This way, regardless of if a maker decides to have intro voice clips or just a radar clip could still convey how an NPC is supposed to sound.
Also you talked about event triggers in your video.
Could one of them be used to activate a cut sceen when first talking to an NPC?
This way you could have a long intro sceen where the NPC would introduce themselves and what not, and the player would never encounter that diologue again if they talked to the NPC
Also, is their going to be a way for the environmental sounds to be muted when a sceen plays?
This way you could actually show a sceen that takes place somewhere else entirely so you could cut away from the player character to show something in a different part of the world for example.
I know that's a lot of questions, but this is the first time we; as blind people; have a resource to be able to craft games with systems and narratives on par with what a sighted person could do with something like RPG Maker XP; for example.
This is vary exciting.
Well that's it for now.
PS; RPG Maker XP is mainly used these days to create Pokémon fan games, playthroughs of which can be found on youtube.
As ever, thanks for all the positive comments, we’re really pleased you’ve all enjoyed the second video in the series. Below I’ll try to answer a few of the questions which have come in:
[email protected] 51, thanks for the interest in the project and your questions, I’ll try and answer them below:
-the NPC voice lines are not randomized , since most times you would want them to play in a certain order to progress story/dialog in a specific order. Your suggestion of a random option is a good one though, as I could see certain situations or specific NPC’s where randomized voice lines might work well.
- yes it is possible to tie sounds to objects. There is an object called container, this is kind of like a blank object you can create yourself. Using your dresser example, you could select container from the object menu, it will then let you name it so you could call it dresser, then you can give it a description of a dresser, assign its radar sound and then assign dresser opening and closing sounds for when the player opens/takes stuff from it, maybe a creaking draw opening sound or something similar.
-regarding packaging /compiling games, since sable is still in its prototype stage its too early to confirm any details like that, at the moment our primary focus is on our first game Crimson Eclipse.
@number 55, thanks for the interest in the project, I’ll try and answer a few of your questions below:
-yes you can specify the sound which is made when you first reach an NPC, so it doesn’t have to be that coughing sound. In maps I’ve made whilst testing Sable, I’ve had NPC’s speak a pre recorded voice line when you first meet them rather than the cough. So you could use this to have them use a pre recorded voice line when you first reach them,, but then have the rest of their actual dialog spoken using TTS, like you said this way it would cut down on costs for voice lines, but still give the player an idea of what that NPC is meant to sound like.
-Regarding event triggers, yes you can select for an event trigger to fire when you interact with an NPC, when setting an event trigger on an NPC you can also specify when it will fire, so like you suggested you could get it to fire a cut scene when you first meet the NPC, or you might for example get it to trigger a battle at the end of their dialog, or maybe something after you have completed a task for them.
-currently cut scenes don’t mute the ambience on a map whilst they play, but it’s a good suggestion since I could see situations like you mentioned where you might want the background ambience muted whilst its playing.
I hope the above answers everyone’s questions, again just a huge thanks for all the positive comments
The Ebon Sky Studios Team
First, thanks for very interesting idea!
I have few questions.
1. - Will be possibility to make non english games? i know, that We can be set non english names, texts etc but what about directions, menues, hotkeys etc?
2. What about multilingual games when user can change language?
3. In modern games there are some stuff like 3d audio, reverbs, filters and other effects which makes world more realistics. What about sable?
4. Every closed enviromment has potentially a lot of barriers for non standard tasks. Do you thing about make possibility to make some scripts by users which makes something special or creating plugins and share with other users? This can makes your product far better, be cause it can be build not only by your team.
best from Poland and sorry for my english.
Let me add my own slew of questions to the list.
1, you guys are awesome for making this. Plenty of people in this community can write well but can't code worth a damn, so this seems like it'll be a great alternative. fine, fine, this is not a question, moving on.
actual questions now.
First, can you set up conversation like interactions like AHC, AKA choosing how to respond to dialog and having different bits of dialog or tasks trigger in response.
Next, can you create tasks that don't have you fetch an item, for example I need you to go to Wintertop mountain and slay the blue dragon.
relatedly, can you have NPCs interact differently with you if you're on a task? AKA in your quest to slay the blue dragon, if you go to speak to bob the barbarian he might have some advice on the fine art of dragonslaying.
Lastly, is it possible to have an event trigger move you to a different map? During your fight with the dragon, you are thrown clear of Wintertop mountain, and would have died except for a handy scroll of levitation which allowed you to float down (relatively) unharmed in a random forest in the middle of nowhere.
Or, you were too late getting to the dragon, and it ended up burning your home city, changing the map to one containing only ruins.
Even if none of this is doable, very excited about this project as is.
Cool. If need be I'd gladly contribute some sounds to the project. Anyway, iit would be interesting to be able to decide whether you wated your game to be 3d or side scrolling.
yeah, me too! I have few binaural setups, two shotgun mics, Zoom h6 and few polish things is something special to our country for example some trains.
Hope you all had a great new year’s eve . Thanks for all the positive feedback and comments,, I’ll try and answer a few below
[email protected] 57, thanks for the interest in the project, below are answers to your questions:
-at present Sable only supports English language, but as you said from a design stand point you could create all your weapons, enemies, abilities, labels etc. all in whatever language you wanted , but the menus/interfaces would all still be in English.
-Regarding sounds, since the user can add their own sounds for pretty much anything in sable, if you wanted a sound to have an affect like reverb etc. you would add this yourself to the sound before you added it to sable .
-regarding scripting, sable has been specifically created so no scripting or coding is required, you are right that this does give some limitations, but it allows anyone regardless of coding or scripting experience to be able to create their own RPG audio game.
[email protected] 58, thanks for the positive feedback about the project, I’ll try and answer a few of your questions below.
-We have talked about adding a dialog tree system for NPC’s, which would do what you are after, where the user would have a choice of replies and which ever reply they give would potentially make the NPC give a different reply or outcome to the conversation. It’s definitely not in there yet, as to whether it will make it into the final release we will have to wait to see.
-regarding tasks no it doesn’t always have to be go fetch something, as you suggested you could set a task for a player to go slay something and the task wouldn’t be complete until they found and slayed whatever you sent them to kill. . Regarding NPC’s acting differently if you are on a certain quest, other than the NPC who set you a task , giving the ‘you haven’t completed the task’ speech, other NPC’s wouldn’t act differently. But it’s a good idea.
-yes there is an event trigger which would let you change a map after a certain event, so like in your example you could have the event trigger fire so that you return to your village only to find out the dragon has burnt it down, and instead of the village it is now a ruined village reduced to smoke , rubble and debris.
-you mentioned an event trigger which would move you to another map, at present there isn’t anything like that, but its another good idea and we are always trying to add new event triggers to add more options and flexibility.
[email protected] 59, a huge thanks for the offer of sounds, that is a really kind offer, we actually already have a sound engineer on the team however so are doing fine for sounds, but again the offer was hugely appreciated. You mentioned side scrollers, sadly sable is designed for RPGs only, so couldn’t be used to make a side scroller.
Hope the above answers everyone’s questions, again thanks to everyone who’s watch the video and for all the interest and positive comments.
The Ebon Sky studios Team
Those 2 youtube videos were interesting, I look forward to more. I'm looking forward to the release of the engine.
I've seen the first two videos and I like the idea, but one thing comes to mind, with no code, etc. how will the games support the feature set the creator wishes to implement. Games have to follow a vision, if you're creating one, you have to know what you want, and go then put it into practice. I think this could work, for a while, but what happens when the feature set provided by the Sable engine is used by many different games, and they now all feel very similar.
You say no coding is required, but is coding supported? If the answer is yes, then that alleviates the above concern, at least to a degree, then the remainder could be eliminated by knowing how robust the scripting/coding is. In order for games made using this engine to feel unique - accepting of course that there is more to an audio game than just the sounds - we can then come to the conclusion that once several games are released under Sable, at some point, will start to feel very similar.
That isn't to say that a card game will feel like a battleship style game, or something like that, but games of the same genre, or games which include elements of the same genre or genres over time will begin to feel very familiar, very similar. This therefore, is my chief concern beyond the obvious ones:, stability, security in data storage, speed of execution, etc. I then pose the question, if coding and scripting is not a feature of the engine, how will developers using Sable make their games feel unique? I am mainly looking into gameplay mechanics, and controls. Mechanics could be how woudl the inventory system work in an RPG? Could you code one of your own, could you add or modify a base class that's already there, etc. Maybe in one game, you're OK with tracking items by total number, but in another, you want to make the inventory system different by creating body slots and items that go in those slots, for example, you wouldn't be putting leather greaves on your head.
I do wish your project success and look forward to both trying it for making games, and playing games made using it. I also apologize if I have asked questions that already have been answered, I haven't read the rest of this topic yet, and will do so sometime later on.
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@number 64, thanks for the interest in the project. Regarding coding, Sable doesn’t support coding/scripting, its been specifically designed this way so that anyone even without any programming knowledge can use Sable to create their own RPG audio game. There are restrictions to this type of engine as it doesn’t give as much control as if you were to code a game yourself , but hopefully the engine allows people with creative ideas to be able to make their own RPG audio games, even if they can’t code themselves. games written using an engine always run the risk of having a similar feel to them, but we’ve tried to add as much flexibility as possible so users can still create games which feel unique, this definitely takes some creative thinking but we really look forward to seeing what the community creates using sable, we’ve already seen test maps made by the team which with a little ‘outside the box thinking’ have really pushed the boundaries of what sable can do.
The Ebon Sky Studios Team
The next video in the series is here, the link to it is below:
thanks to everyone for all the positive feedback so far on the project, hope you all enjoy this video as much as the last two
The Ebon Sky Studios Team
These creation systems seem incredibly robust, if slightly convoluted.
The problem lies not in the systems themselves, but how they're presented to the user.
presenting a separate prompt for every value might be ideal for the beginner, however the advanced user might like to go straight into the editing list after deciding what to create.
This could be accomplished with a simple setting somewhere that gives the option for a step-by-step, or wizard interface, or the advanced interface that simply brings up the edit list that you showed off in the video.
I can say from experience that the system you showed off works, as I spent the better part of four years using something similar to create a magnum opus of user content named Remnant for an audio game called adventure at C.
The system you have in place would work really well if the creation engine were making an action platformer, as not many values come into play in that kind of game.
A role-playing game with lots of different weapons, armor, and items introduces many more variables that a creator needs to keep track of.
Just say; for example; that I get in a vary creative mood and want to make lots of weapons and armor for my next big project, but I'm not particularly ready to add all the minutia of numbers to make it all work yet.
With the advanced interface, I could simply add all the items, weapons and armor I wanted without needing to assign values to everything just yet.
Later, when I'm starting to get all the story beats down and have placed everything where I want it; IE chests and the like, I could then go into the editing tools and assign stats to the things I've already given cool names to so my characters can actually, you know, fight off monsters and the like.
Those are just my initial thoughts after viewing your newest video.
I hope I'm not coming off as really pushy or anything, but we; as blind gamers; have never had anything this robust on the horizon that would let us create our own RPGs before.
I'm feeling the same way, in those prompts, it would be nice if it were just a menu where you used arrows to get to each option, and left/right to increase/decrease options. Either that, or just one input box where you type all the numbers in at once.
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@number 67 and 68, thanks for the feedback. although I can’t confirm what will and won’t definitely make it into future versions of Sable they are both really good suggestions which the team here will discuss.
@number 67, in the video I went through the weapon and armor creators quite slowly so everyone could see each option, but in fact once you have entered the name you can actually just press escape through each option which will just set its default value, or for yes/no dialog boxes it is the same as clicking no, it also skips the TTS speech so you don’t have to listen to each option/prompt either, although I appreciate this isn’t a perfect solution to what you are looking for and i do like the two suggestions which have come in, I thought I’d still mention this since it does mean once you’ve entered in the name you can escape through every other option and have the weapon created with default values within a second or 2 at the most. I actually use this technique myself when working on test maps and wanting to create a weapon really quickly for testing purposes in sable.
The Ebon Sky Studios Team
Hi Lemm, thanks for your excellent work, I like very much your tool. I've listened all your videos and I would ask if is possible to create a radar for walls like in Manamon, when you can hear the walls using a thone, and when the wall end you hear that the thone go off. It would very useful for complicate dungeon.
hi! I have a suggesttion for it. can you make it so the game maker can set keys to be used in stead of the defaults to make more cool games with different features? By the way, I am really excited about the release of this! Will it come with all those sounds you showed us in the videos?
@number 70, really pleased you’ve enjoyed all the videos so far. Regarding radar sounds for walls , sable actually has different radar types you can choose as we appreciate different people have different preferences when it comes to radar systems,, so the player can choose which type of radar system they like the most . one of the radar options is similar to what you have asked for, there is also the option to have radar sounds for walls turned off, this is what it is set to in all the videos. Dungeons have their own unique radar system which is similar to entombed where a sound plays when you walk past an open passage, I’ll probably demonstrate how to create a dungeon style map in one of the later videos so you’ll see this radar system then.
@number 71, really pleased you’re excited about the project. I’m not quite sure what you mean about setting keys, did you mean is there a configuration option for the player to change the keyboard keys they use, or did you mean actual keys in game which are used to open locked items? As for sounds, at the moment our primary focus is on our first game Crimson Eclipse, so it’s a little too early yet to say what sounds will or won’t be included with Sable when it is released.
The Ebon Sky Studios Team
I've monitored this topic with a lot of interest, but very little interaction for a while now. Let me just say that I love the idea of an RPG creation system like this. I'm one of those people who'd love to make a game, believe they've the creative mindset to tell a story through a game, but just don't have the aptitude for all that complicated coding.
I can't wait for the completion and release of Sable, which will permit people like myself who are better at content creation than complex if - then nested statements, debugging convoluted loop blocks, or remembering a million variables and how they should be used.
I respect all the enthusiasm that people have exhibited, but I think we should all respectfully wait until Sable is released before we start suggesting that X should be Y, or that A should contain feature B. That's not to say we shouldn't make suggestions, of course, but some of the ones recommending that Sable should be able to make racing games or side scrollers, for example, have slightly baffled me (as the tool is clearly designated for the RPG genre).
I'm sincerely excited about this project, and am eagerly looking forward to its initial title so we can take the wheels out for a spin to see what the tool can produce. I also would love to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed the great video introductions to Sable, and they're really enlightening about how easy it will be to create content with this creation package. Keep up the great work, because there's a 3D6+5 broadsword of magnificence waiting for your awesome team.
Hmm. It's interesting. It's just that, my experience with scriptless engines is that they don't tend to retain there usefulness for very long. Now keep in mind, I am making a distinction between no scripting required engines and scriptless engines. For example, game maker and RPG Maker are no scripting required engines, where as scriptless engines are like what you've proposed here. Actually, the main issue has been addressed, and maybe I'll be wrong when it releases, but no matter how much you add as far as triggers go, without at least a basic method of adding custom variables, and conditionals to test those variables, let alone most of the other stuff a scripting/extension/plugin system would support, it is solely on your shoulders to prolong the lifetime of your engine. This tends to make innovation rather difficult. As for things like resources, crafting, and what not straying from RPGs, well, not necessarily. In fact, adding mechanics onto a pre-existing formula is how genres stop from becoming stale. Now then, that being said, all things considered, this is a good start. Considering it's only a prototype at the moment, it's sounding promising. I just hope it gets expanded further. If it does, it would solve a major problem this community has been having for a very long time. Best of luck to you and your team.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the positive feedback so far, also below are some replies to a couple of the posts:
@number 73, really pleased you’ve enjoyed all the videos so much. I think the community is full of really creative people such as yourself, but either don’t have the programing knowledge or the time to code something from the ground up, and we’re really hoping Sable gives everyone the opportunity to channel some of that creativity into a game, I think there will be some fantastic RPG stories out there people want to tell and hopefully Sable allows those people to turn those stories into a great RPG audio game.
[email protected] 74, thanks for the interest in the project. RPG maker has come up a few times in conversation with people when talking about Sable, I actually haven’t ever used it , but since so many people have referenced it I may have to read up a little on it. As for scripting, this has come up quite a lot in this topic, I think what makes Sable unique in the audio games community though is that the whole RPG audio game can be created without any scripting, we do appreciate as mentioned before this does have its restrictions, but it also opens the doors to so many people(see post 73 and my reply above for a great example of this). As you mentioned though Sable is still in its prototype stage and we are constantly trying to add features and options to make it as flexible as possible, but I think the main thing to remember is that Sable is a tool to create RPG audio games, and although we’re really looking forward to seeing what people create with it, we definitely don’t mean it to be the one and only tool to create these types of games. as mentioned previously we have a lot of creative people in the community and a lot of very clever programmers too, since there will always be more control over creation if you write something yourself, I’m sure people will still continue to write there own engines or RPG audio games, as a big RPG fan I look forward to trying these just as much as I look forward to playing the games made using sable.
Again, just want to say thanks for everyone who’s watched the videos, we’re really pleased everyone’s enjoying them .
The Ebon Sky Studios Team