2018-10-26 08:25:38 (edited by JLove 2018-10-26 08:26:38)

Ok, just double checked, and in the video titled "Madden NFL Accessibility," located at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHj73N6F9Fg
the home menu is spoken.  I did not hear him turn this feature on, so I assume that it just comes on by default.  However, in the PC version, this menu appears not to be spoken at all.  This makes me wonder what other accessibility features are missing.  Dammit, I guess I am forced to go the console route.

2018-10-26 10:07:21

Duuuude hold your horses and think that through for a second.
i have the pc version myself and every accessibility feature you hear is there. In the main menu, go to the right till you feel the vibrations, hit a. Now you are in the accessibility menu and you are on the menu narrations, hit left to turn them on. Problem here is that EA apparently removed the slider clicks in an update, so you won't get any feetback on if the slider is enabled or not, mostly, the on option is to the left, so hit left ones to make sure.
Then, go down, I think twice to vibration feetback and set it to assist, I could be wrong but I think that's one to the right, if not, you should chec the video again to make sure again.

Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2018-10-26 10:43:21

So, I got the menus to speak correctly now.  Now I'm trying to tackle adjusting graphics settings.  My PC seems to be able to run things fairly well, but I notice occasional issues, and quite frankly, I don't need the extra graphics anyway (I am totally blind).  The main problem that I am noticing at the moment is that OCR does not tell you what's highlighted, so it's hard to determine where you actually are in a given menu.  Any thoughts on that issue?

2018-10-26 19:44:43

I'll be honest, OCR is kind of an advanced feature since the technology itself is still in its infancy and far from intuitive. You have to be able to use logic to carefully think things through, which is not everyone's greatest strength. There are two ways you could approach the highlighting problem. One is to look for the popup that explains the menu option currently highlighted. Almost all the linear menus have these for every option. For example, the menu narration option in the accessibility menu might show a textbox with something like, toggles spoken menu narration. If you find this with OCR, it can be accurately inferred that you're highlighting the menu narration toggle. Another more reliable but also more cumbersome method is to count how many clicks from the top you have moved with the cursor, then count how many items of text you've moved down with OCR. Again in the accessibility menu, the vibration toggle is four items from the top, meaning you'd press the menu down button on your controller three times to get to it. If you pressed your arrow on your keyboard the same number of times and hear vibration mode, you're on vibration mode. A similar method can also be performed to check whether you've toggled something on and off, since it does in deed seem EA removed the sound for toggles and sliders. OCR reads the screen in a tabular format, which is how the accessibility menu and many others like it are laid out. If you scroll down past all the menu options with OCR, you'll find a bunch of things saying on, off, or other things. The order of these items match the order in the menus, so if you count how many ons, offs or other things you've arrowed past, you can determine what an option is set to. HTH And yes, with franchise mode you will be the coach of each game just like normal, unless of course you've selected a different playing mode. I don't know much about the other modes and what effects they have though.

2018-10-27 20:35:41

Well, I got my graphics settings figured out, and my PC is running the game fine now.  No stutters, no lags.  My next question is in terms of layout.  Are all of the menus and other areas laid out the same way they are on console?  In other words, are menus in the same places that they would be on console, and are things inside of the menus in the same order that they would be on console?  This isn't quite as important for main menus and menus within settings, franchise, etc., as we can use OCR to try to figure out differences.  However, this would become especially important in terms of the screen that comes up between plays, as well as playbooks.  If Addolis does get playbooks completed, I believe that he's basing his information off of a console (I'm not positive, but I think he's using an Xbox 1), so the information he gets from there would need to be the same on PC, and that's why I'm asking whether things match.  OCR seems to absolutely suck when trying to read the screen where you choose plays and such.  I gotta repeat, it absolutely sucks.  You get jibberish with the occasional understandable word.  Hopefully one day OCR technology will improve, but for now it looks like there's no way that I can see to figure out plays and the like without sighted assistance, unless someone has figured out how to decipher the jibberish.

2018-10-28 03:36:31 (edited by JLove 2018-10-28 03:45:29)

Here's an example of what I see with OCR.  It's first down, I am on defense, just after kickoff.  One line at a time, with comments between:
Isr&lO
I have no clue what the hell that means.  Just looks like nonsense gibberish.
SPORTS
Not sure why that's just randomly there.
SIM
'ere
Not at all sure what those two lines prove. Sim just randomly by itself on one line makes no sense, and neither does E R E make sense at all in this context.
DEFENSE, PICK A PLAY!
Well, at least that makes sense.
2RBllTE12WR
So, if you take that one letter at a time, the only thing I can think is that it means 2rb (two running backs), ll (not sure what that means), TE12WR (one tight end and two wide receivers).  That seems logical.  The LL makes no sense to me, though.  Then:
CAR i O
I have no clue what the hell that is.  Again, just looks like gibberish.
10:00 40.
That's the time left in the quarter, I think.
< SUGGESTIONS (1ST DOWN) >
Cover 1 Robber Press
PLAYBOOK
Strategy pick because:
The Falcons frequently call Drive in
1st Down
So, this part makes sense.  It's a suggested play, and the reasoning behind it.  What if I didn't want the suggested play, though?
SUPER SIM
Not sure what "super sim" means, or why it would need to be there at all.  Again, just seems like more unnecessary gibberish.  So we've got parts that make sense, and parts that just seem totally out of place.  Sim written in random places, the word ere (E, R, E) by itself, some weird other line of text like "car I o."  And at the very bottom, "Super sim," which makes no sense.  Does anyone know what the other gibberish lines might be?

2018-10-28 04:04:12

Re: playbooks.  when you're on offense, you can do the following:
press circle/b/whatev the pc version is a few times.
Go down three times and press A/X/the select option button.

This will put you in the play type screen; you can scroll right and left between run, pass, and special teams.

If you scroll up and down, you will cycle between quick pass, medium pass, shotgun, play action, and hail merry i think.  I'm not sure what the run/special teams are (I know it's inside then outside run, the verry bottom one is fullback runs for short yardage).

It's been a while since I've looked at them, but that is an option.  You may not know what play you're doing, but you'll know if it's a quick pass or a bomb down field!

I believe console and pc menu items are the same, too.

2018-10-28 16:38:07

I have to be honest, 90 percent of my enthusiasm for this game is gone. It'll come back once I can actually play properly. No sliders, no confusion with plays, no button inputs I can't see. I don't mean this to come off as complaining, because it's not. It's more disappointment, I suppose. MUT especially had me super excited, until it took like an hour just to switch players around.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2018-10-29 06:37:54

I love that a big game development company is actually taking accessibility seriously.  For that reason alone I will support them.  That being said, there are definitely things that need improvement.  The sound that let's us know settings are being turned on or off should be put back.  Honestly, I have no idea why that was removed.  All menus should be narrated.  If Mr. Coachman is unable or unwilling to do it, then it is possible to pass the information to narrator so that they can be read that way.  This way we aren't fighting to decipher OCR when it decides to come out with unintelligible or extemporaneous nonsense.  Two other huge things in my opinion that need fixing are directly related to in-game play.  First, play calling.  Those screens need to be narrated, either by a human, or if they are unwilling to do that, then by narrator.  It's just that simple.  We need access to be able to call our own plays and not have to rely on the game to do it for us.  As it stands now, we can pick plays by type, i.e., run, pass, etc., but we don't know what actual play within that type we're choosing.  Same goes for using the suggested play.  So if I pick a run, I get the haptic feedback telling me it's a run.  That's all well and good, but I have no idea what play actually got chosen, and I have no idea whether it's a play to the left, to the middle, or to the right, meaning that I don't know which way to run the ball.  Plus, add some haptic feedback so that, sort of like lining up for a field goal, when I feel no vibration, I know I should run up the field, and when I feel vibration, I know I need to try to move out of the way of a defender.  Passing has a two-fold issue.  First, knowing how many receivers are running routes in a given play.  As it stands now, we can choose a pass, and we're told that it is a pass, but we have no information about how many receivers are actually in the play, or which buttons are assigned to them.  Allowing the play call screens to be read would solve at least part of that, since we'd be able to know what formation we chose.  The second issue in passing is that we can't tell who is open.  We have no idea what receiver to throw to or when to throw, so it's all just guessing.  I understand the passing/catching mechanics, but none of that matters if I can't tell who's open.  This could be solved by haptic feedback.  My suggestion is this.  Let's say you pick a pass, and there are 4 receivers that run routes, assigned to buttons A, B, X, and Y.  After you snap the ball, if button A's receiver comes open, have one tap of vibration from the controller, two quick taps for button B, 3 for X, and 4 for Y.  In this way, we would know which receiver was open.  If those things get solved, actually playing a game would be much easier.

2018-10-29 14:26:59

I don't regret buying it, I just take no enjoyment out of playing it the way it stands, either. Agreed with your suggestions though, that'd make it literally hundreds of time more fun.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2018-10-29 20:52:39

If Addolis does manage to get playbooks completed, that will help hugely with play calling until EA figures it out.  It won't help with determining who's open, but it's a start at least.  It will at least allow us to know which way the play we're choosing should be run, and how many receivers are in a given pass play.  I hope he's all right and that nothing bad has happened, or that he hasn't just totally given up on the project, as his YouTube channel has been silent for a while, and he has not responded to any of the last several posts on this thread.  Hopefully he's just taking a break and will be back.  If something bad has come up, or if he's just decided to throw in the towel for now, I would be willing to try to help, but the problem is that I don't have access to sighted help easily.  My girlfriend is blind, and my neighbors aren't easily available for something like this that would take several weeks to complete.

2018-10-29 22:09:02

I also hope he's doing alright. I'm assuming it's just a matter of life getting in the way/general busyness.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2018-11-01 00:22:02 (edited by JLove 2018-11-01 00:28:19)

So, some somewhat good news...OCR can sort of read plays and formations.  And it can also read well enough to be able to actually pick the team you want in exhibition mode.  I did some experimenting last night, and it is possible to get a general idea of things on some screens.  Instead of choosing play by type, it is also possible to choose play by concept, personnel, and formation.  The formations don't always read the best, but it's possible to figure it out.  When choosing plays by concept, you can choose things like sweep, option, etc., which opens up other plays to you.  Underneath whatever you choose you can see play names.  The only tricky thing is knowing which button maps to which play you're choosing.  But this is encouraging at least.  And if Addolis is no longer able to, or has for some reason decided to not pursue further accessibility videos and/or guides, then I will see what I can do going forward.  I can't guarantee speed, as acquiring the sighted assistance needed will be challenging, but I will do my best.  What I really wish is that I had the ability to directly contact EA's accessibility team to discuss things, but that apparently is not possible.  This could be solved much easier if EA would simply pass all in-game text to narrator, which is actually possible.  I don't see why that's not done, since it's got to be less of a hassle than having a human do voiceovers of the options, i.e., the way they did it in the main menu.  And it would allow for any in-game text to be read, intcluding pre-play adjustments on offense and defense before snap of the ball such as audibles, or defensive adjustments like shading down or back, changing coverages, etc., without the hassle of having to take a human's time to do it.  Sort of seems like a no-brainer, but hey, what the hell do I know anyway?

2018-11-01 03:35:35

You can talk to them on the accessibility forum. The problem with it going straight to narator, is playstation people would be completely left behind.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2018-11-01 06:22:03

I knew that it came out on XB and PC, I didn't know it was out on PS as well.  Although Sony does have TTS, at least in U.S. consoles, so it could be passed through to TTS there also.

2018-11-01 15:07:16

Sony's tts is just bare bones. I don't think they have the ability to output to games, but I could be wrong.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2018-11-11 12:45:15

hi JLove
where I can buy pc version?
and how turn on
accessible menu?

2018-11-11 18:42:10

Sorry for the long delay in responce. I  More videos are going to bereleased. Between my work schedule changing, and other things happening, Madden has been well, delayed.   We have not abanded you guys, and we are still working  on stuff. I'm going to give a breakdown of what we are working on currently, and what  we have planned.
1. Playbooks: we are working on playbooks by concept,  and this will allow us to  not only give you the button layout for plays, but also give you passing plays. The running part of the playbook  is complete for the titans at least, and I could give you all a look at it, to see if that is something that will help.
2. More skills trainer videos. We have not forgotten the skills trainer videos.  and plan on doing more.  We recently got our internet fixed, and that was a big delay in producing more content.
3. We're also working ont he menu system, comprising of headings, links, and a combination of bulleted and numbered lists.  Franchise is almost done, but the pause menu, and ultimate team have not been completed yet.  Again, I can send what I have,  and you guys can play with it.
Now, let me get to some of the questions  posted on the forum.
As far as turning on accessibility, that is covered in my first video.  but it is the first option in the accessibility menu.
Second, all of those issues that JLove posted, please take them to the forum. When I was reading it, it felt like I had said those things, and I have, several times. 
Supersim is not jibberish  it is indeed an option in the menus during a game, wich we will show you. Inside this menu are play the moments, offense only, and defense only.
I really do apologize for the long delay, but I have not abanded you .   fellow warriors of the grid-iron.  Should anyone want to get in touch with me,  please add me to xbox. My Gammertag isvol4life8657.
Also, you can reach me at: [email protected]

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2018-11-12 01:02:23 (edited by JLove 2018-11-13 22:56:17)

Addolis,
Please send anything that you have completed in terms of menus and playbooks.
One thing that I hate within games is that we cannot adjust our roster or substitutions.  We can't choose who starts, or when players get subbed, and which personnel gets subbed in when we please, because OCR can't read rosters.  I've gotten better at passing as time has gone on, but what I don't like is that I can't figure out how to target a specific receiver when I want to, because the routes seem to be run by different receivers, even when you run the same pass play.  For example, if I'm using the Panthers, and I run a slant pass play, sometimes the receiver on A might be Smith, other times, though, it's Moore, and sometimes it's Thomas, and you just never know, and it changes even if you run the exact same play.  I expect it to change when running different pass plays, but not if I run the same play 3 times, the receivers should be the same each time, and they're not.  Not sure what's going on there.  Same thing happens with runs.  I pick a running play, and McCaffrey gets the ball.  Fine.  If I pick that very same play again, though, Anderson might get the ball.  This makes no sense to me, and it's a little confusing.  What if I didn't want Anderson carrying the ball?  I should be able to control that.  Also, we need to be able to control our offensive and defensive lines pre-snap.  We need to be able to shift our lines, or press cover, shade down, or drop back if we want to.  Or assign our RB to block for us instead of running a pass route, things like that.  As for posting in the accessibility forum, I have done that.  However, I'm not sure whether those are even being read, since I've gotten absolutely no response, and I posted like 2 weeks ago.
OCR actually does well with the trainer.  I was able to do a whole training thing with it.  But there are places it absolutely sucks, especially within franchise mode, and it doesn't read rosters or depth charts worth a damn.

2018-11-12 01:18:00

JLove,
I don't want to send the playbooks yet, as we have not done the passing plays.  However, I can explain the subs to you.
The game will do what is called an autosub in sertain situations. This is why the receiver running a slant will change. Also, when doing running plays,  it is dependent on the  situation, (third down), or what personnel is on the defense.  You also want to know how to do pre snap adjustments, we will cover that as well.  The menu system I am working on has a full list of controls, both for PS 4and xbox 1, in a table, wich can easily be navigated with screen readers.  The passing plays we will work on, and we will include aditional information, such as what receiver is running what route. It may not be the names of the receivers, but you will know what rout the run, and you will know where your running back is on the play, as well as what button is tied to that route.  Also, if you know that information,  you can do hot routes, and we will do our best to includee a list of those. I used to have them memoriezed a long time ago, but they may have changed.
The other thing we have in store, I don't want to mention yet, because it is not high on the priority list, but will be done in the future.

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2018-11-12 02:24:39 (edited by JLove 2018-11-12 02:27:51)

Oh, I thought you said you could send what you had so far in a previous post, but maybe I misunderstood. Is there a way to change who gets autosubbed, and in what situations subs occur?  The one thing I do know is that the lack of response on the accessibility forum is discouraging.  I hope that EA hasn't decided to stop pursuing accessibility.

2018-11-12 02:26:46

Yes, and we will make sure to include that.

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2018-11-12 02:32:10

I sort of feel like EA did half of a job, and is just leaving us floundering to do the rest.  I hope they haven't decided to stop pursuing accessibility, but the lack of response on the accessibility forums is not encouraging.  So hopefully we can figure it out in the end if they're not willing to.

2018-11-12 02:34:11

I'll confess to you, when I started doing videos for this game before it was released, I didn't think it would get as big as it did.  It's truly been an honor, and a very humbling experience, to dedicate so much time to this.  I'm hoping like your self, that EA has not dropped the ball.

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2018-11-12 06:23:54

We've never had a game that actually tried to implement accessibility, so I'm not surprised that it has garnered attention.  Like I said, I'm glad that a company has decided to take accessibility seriously.  That being said, if they truly are taking it seriously, then they might want to maintain contact with actual disabled users, and if the forum is any indication, they don't appear to be doing that.  I am not even sure they read my post, and if they did, they didn't bother to reply.  I guess we won't really be able to know until the next release comes out.