2018-05-12 06:21:54

Hay all!! I really enjoy audiogames. Well I used too. Here is why I stopped liking audiogames. I still like audiogames but not as much.

1. new audiogames. People are not really releasing new audiogames for the blind community to enjoy. It seems like all we have for an audio game is the blindfold games. And I hate! The blindfold games! First off the sound is just not that good of a quality. Second, all we have are stupid card games. Uh, sorry but that is not for me. I like more FPS games. You could forget about Swamp, since I will not pay for that. but anyway, I think people should start creating games that some blind people will enjoy then blindfold games. Come on people!!

2. they always have a pattern. As I said before I still like audiogames. But here is what I have noticed that really ticks me off!! And what is that? Well that is patterns. For example, those card games I was mentioning, they are okay. But some blind people don't really enjoy that sort of game, including me. and now, 3.. removing of games. Why! Why! Why does this need to happen! I can't stand when people remove games. Somethinnelse did that and I don't wanna see that again. I can understand about money and all that stuff. But if you are just going to remove games, uh, come on. You can't just do that, some people might want to keep them on their devices and if they get erased can download them again. But I guess not.

Disclaimer, please note that I am not attacking any developers in any way, shape or form. Will I still look at new audiogames? Oh yes I will! And currently I'm doing that right now. But come on, I just think people really need to create games that [all] people can enjoy!!!

If you like card games, please respect my opinion. Otherwise, please, just don't talk to me about card games. I like some card games but not really a lot of them. We need to see more games for the mac and also iOS! We gotta make it happen! Please! Someone! Help us! Thanks and I really hope you understand my point. May the force be with you!!!

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2018-05-12 06:43:06

Never mind that a hero's call came out at the end of last year and is pretty much the best english audiogame on the market.

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2018-05-12 07:01:37 (edited by defender 2018-05-13 00:16:44)

dude you need to actually do some freakin research first before saying that kind of thing.
If your just talking about the IPhone, your still wrong, but it's more understandable.
Your literally posting this on the largest database of audio games we have, sorted into categories and with free or payed sections, and all you can talk about is card games for mobile? what?
Swamp, TDV2, TS3, AHC, RTR Ultimate, Redspot, STW, SBYW, Crazy Party, Sound RTS with or without Crazymod, Tactical Battle, Alteraeon with the Mush Z soundpack, Beatstar, Rhythm Rage, BK3, Shadow Line, A blind legend, the blind swordsman, Adventure at C:, Cyclepath, Humans VS Robots, Manamon, Eurofly,World of War, Marina Break, park boss, tube sim, preludeamals, Screaming Strike, super deekout, The Road of Life, Danger on the Wheel, Villins from Beyond, Audio Strike, Warsim, Entombed... Their are so damn many solid games covering most genres.
If your just talking about the IPhone than you still have A dark room, the Ensin, Sixth Sense, Star Tradors, zany touch, fruit pot, audio game hub, a blind legend again, Trivia Crack Kingdoms, King of dragon pass,, dice world and more, though I do agree that it's shitty how games disappear, but I guess that's the consequence of building for such a fast moving segment and then not having enough resources to make larger updates in order to keep up with the inevitable new requirements.

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

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2018-05-12 07:42:48

Yeah. I had the same thoughts about audio games back when I first discovered them in 2003, but that was after coming into it from the mainstream market, which despite being a lifelong blind person I'd had much more exposure to. There have been some major strides in games for the blind in the intervening fifteen years, not the least being the aforementioned Hero's Call. Indeed, AHC as we tend to call it is more or less exactly the sort of game I'd been hoping to see since I got into audio games.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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2018-05-12 07:55:56 (edited by Erick 2018-05-12 08:02:02)

Well, A Hero's call is a good game. Heck, I am even supporting this developer who is creating new audio games for IOS. It supposed to be an FPS, I'm looking forward to it. However all those other games like STW, red spot, and all those other ones, nope, not playing them ever, ever, ever again. It's just not for me. A hero's call is good, but it's small. Yes it is a first game and they did a very good job though! Let's hope that they make more games. But until then I'm still waiting for a game that all people can enjoy!! Yes I'm also batatesting a game so yeah. But anyway. You have a good day.

Oh, Alter Aeon is still one of my favorites. Sidescrollers are just getting boring for me. Some of them are great. others not so much. Beatstar or whatever, it's okay. All you do is just match a beat, which seems basic. Death on the road, oh come on. Boaring! Swamp, paying for. Nope, not paying for $25 a year just to get online. Might use alter for that instead. don't worry I will still be playing audio games. Not the boring ones, though.

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2018-05-12 08:43:38

Ok so they're not for you. That doesn't mean they're not good.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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2018-05-12 09:20:15

So you like Swamp, but not that much so you wanna pay for the online mode. smile
Have you played bk3? Have you ever considered starting your own team developing a game?

Best regards SLJ.
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Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

2018-05-12 10:48:59

you know to be honest, a lot of this just seams like wining. Swamp isn't worth 24 bucks? I can tell you that that is very, very cheep for what it offers you. I myself have gotten back into it these past few days, and I'm not regretting it in the least. You don't like side scrolers because they are repetitive? I guess you haven't played bd2 and bd3 yet, because those are basically side scroler perfection. If action rpg is your thing, shadow rine is pretty much the best you'll get, and if turn based rpg is, then just play AHC or manamon (not paladin, paladin sucks in comparason). Finally, if you think all the devs making audio games for us are incompatent because they aren't releasing anything new and inovative, why don't you? It's not that hard, get a cup of coffee, sit down and start learning code. Try a few things, get familiar with your language of choice. Have a game idea that 's so much better than everything else and start working on it. Get a few more people to help you with sound design and the like. The only person to make something to your liking is you. The only point I happen to agree with you on is the blindfold games thing, because that really is ridiculous. $17 for video poker? Nuh uh thanks.

Bar, bar, bar...
Bar is my name and to go bar is my aim...
Sometimes I'll go "Bad bar",
But in the end its always bar, ahem beer, ahem bar! beer bar!

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2018-05-12 12:16:29

maybe our attitude as a blind gamers has been change from good to not good too? , who knows, right? lol

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2018-05-12 15:29:36 (edited by braille0109 2018-05-12 15:30:45)

personally, I do agree with the topic starter up to an extent. let me give an example. what other multiplayer games are there besides dice world, and trevia stuff on the IOS side? are  there even hundreds of games for MAC and android? again, I'm aware of blind legend, etc, etc, but are they multi player? now let's see windows. again, multi player games. is AHC multi player? no it isn't. )(this will cause flame wars) for some of us, AHC is overrated to begin with, so we didn't enjoy it. I'm totally aware of the fact that developing a game is hard, and we don't have many  devs, but the topic starter, despite the wining, has a point. sure, I could join swamp, which is essentially the only thing I'm yet to try, but I currently can't, have a broken touch pad, and no external mouse. personally, I know for a fact, I couldn't maintain a game project up to my own standards. again, I get it that there are things, but really. even the multi player windows games, are more or less identical BGT bases. so I do see his point, and I do play games less than i used to. speaking of which, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned crazy party on this thread. anyway, just some random thoughts.

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2018-05-12 16:06:32 (edited by musicalman 2018-05-12 16:18:32)

At first when I opened this topic, I expected to read some pleasant reminiscing on the old times when audio games were new and fresh. I experienced this feeling in 2004 when I discovered Egg Hunt, Super Liam and in 2005 the BSC Games titles (now Blindsoftware). I enjoyed the hell out of those games, and still enjoy several of them today. In fact, in my personal opinion they really paved the way for future titles and some of them are still too unique to push aside. There was a whit and a charm to those games that I haven't felt since. Maybe that's simply because they were new to me? Or maybe because they were new in general. I don't know.

Later I played more games, but during the early days of my gaming, the community seemed, at least to my shallow perception, to be less stigmatized, less flaming and more productively doing things. Maybe lots of drama existed but I didn't see it, or maybe things were a little more civil back then. I don't know. Maybe I'm talking like an old geezer!

In any case, I thought that was going to be what this topic was about, and I would've said, hmm that's fair. But instead it has turned into a whine fest. It is this kind of stuff which holds the community back.

Are there a lot of card games that you don't like? I don't like them either, I can't remember very many times where I willingly sat down and played one, so I can sympathize. But you seem to have a lot of baggage against them which is considerably lacking in professionalism. If you want more of other games, either look for other games or try to learn to program. If it is too confusing for you, (and I find it extremely painful myself), then please show a little more respect to people who develop even card games. Card games are easy to make, so they serve as not only quick entertainment for those who like those sorts of games, or for nice exercises for beginner programmers.

There are other statements you make which seem contradictory at best, and ignorant at worst. First off you aren't organizing your thoughts and seem to be venting just to vent.

Erick wrote:

Sidescrollers are just getting boring for me. Some of them are great. others not so much.

Why would you say they are boring, and then immediately after add that some of them are great, others not so much. Everything in life is like that. That's like saying soda is foul because I've had some that wasn't carbonated well, but other soda was okay. Your actual opinion is very unclear. Any time you contradict yourself like that, you really should be more specific as to why you like some and not others.

These contradictions are all over the place here. First you say that all we have is Blindfold Games, then all we have is stupid card games, oh a Hero's Call is good, Alter Eon is my favorite, this is okay, that is okay I guess... So what is your opinion? Do we have just crappy Blindfold and card games, or a mixed bag with some gems that you in fact like? This kind of thing doesn't make much sense to people who are trying to take you seriously. So for starters, you should at least think before you type and try to organize your thoughts more so that people know what you are actually trying to say.

Also, having a wide perspective helps. You seem to be hung up on narrow things like specific games, or even specific developer (you said STW and Redspot are stupid), well they're by one developer so fine, you don't like his games. What about the many other games and developers you scarcely mention, or only mention when people disagree with you and call your attention to them? You seem to have played those games enough to give a brief opinion of them, so you have lots of opportunity to cut down on the generalizations!

One more thing: there are plenty of reasons why audio games can be removed from the app store or no longer supported in general. When you buy an audio game, you are not buying ownership of that game. The company still owns it and can do what they wish, whether it be updating it, or stop supporting it. There are plenty of reasons to stop supporting a game, from financial to personal to compatibility for target devices. Some games are stopped simply because the tools that were used are now deprecated and it is just too much work to rewrite it for the new system.

If a company doesn't support the game any longer, it will be removed from distribution. On Windows this really can't be done (people will just share the setup), but on platforms like IOS with strictly controlled distribution, complete removal certainly does happen. And while there are probably wizards out there who can jailbreak and get the app to install despite its removal, there's no telling whether it actually will work, given the nasty habits of apps to stop working on newer devices or newer versions of IOS, which abandonware stuff obviously can't keep up with. Open source is not a big thing with Apple so people can't just fix the problems, and besides, for the Somethin Else games there's far more than compatibility at stake, there are royalties too from what I remember. It sucks, I know. I'm not about to tell you it doesn't, or that you should just forget those games. I have fond memories of them too. But I will tell you that the best thing to do is move on, because there's nothing to be done.

Finally I will agree with you that we need more audio games. Not because there aren't any good ones (though there are a lot of modern games I don't particularly enjoy), but because more is never a bad thing. That's why, even when a new audio game that I don't like comes out, I at least try to read about it, and if the mood takes me, I will give it a shot. I am a big fan of action/arcade games, with some adventure elements. Not card games, not RPGs, not trivia games, not heavily strategic games, not storybook games, not a lot of online stuff or multiplayer or MUDs, and a lot of those seem to have been big in this scene for a while and still are going strong I think, but you know what? I still am happy for every game we do have.

I also will acknowledge that there are glaring imbalances, but admittedly a lot of those imbalances are felt less by me because of my somewhat narrow preferences. I mentioned the genres I like above. As for platforms, I only need Windows and IOS support, and lately Android too but only for messing with really, so I am lucky in the sense that I have the platforms that these games are often released for. But I can definitely see an issue where people for instance only have a Mac. Well there are few games for Mac, and that's a problem. But most of the teams who develop audio games are very small, and some are solo jobs! They at least deserve respectful constructive criticism if anything productive is going to happen.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2018-05-12 16:11:33

We've tried discussing this very issue on other topics and seem to end with mixed results at best.  As much as I like AHC, have bought it, have given away some copies and helped inthe distribution, I'm still not sold on the hype others have given it, but I've come to accept that in every circle there will always be people who love something extensively and cannot be persuaded to hear any kind of detraction from it.  On the other hand, if we're going to compare audiogames to the mainstream market, we're always going to be disappointed.

I do not know what my future holds, but I do know who holds my future.

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2018-05-12 16:18:31

@op this just comes off as entitled whining, oh I'm blind, give me games. Games are a form of entertainment, you usually have to pay for entertainment, the fact that you claim you won't pay for Swamp makes no sense. If you want FPS type games, Swamp is one, it doesn't cost all that much, you have to pay the $24 for the first year, but then you can add a month at a time after that, you don't have to pay for the same year all the time. OK, I agree about the blindfold games, that guy is ridiculous, and kicked up a shit storm about integrating everything into one app, OK? Everybody else has to do it so why not quit your bitching and do it. This guy complains about many hours and code revisions, but Apple is making this rule for everyone, so how much more equal can things get, everyone else has to do it, he has to do it, but he can't leave it at that, he has to go on an entitled blindie bitch fest and Apple caves. That is bullshit, he should be censured by this community.

Now back onto @op, just because you don't like a particular genre of games doesn't mean you should be coming on here and saying bleh bleh bleh, quit making card games. TO be honest, I wish people would chill on side scrollers, I see them as repetitive and flooding the market, I may express this approval, but it doesn't come off with this nasal whiny tone, or at least I hope to god it don't, since I'm often misinterpreted in text. But just so there is no reason for doubt, you approached this thing the wrong way.
If everything you see is making you turn up your nose, you have unrealistically high expectations, I suggest you lower them. Either that, or learn to code and make your own games, but I do hope in that instance, if you did create a successful game, and people played it well... hopefully it would be a free game since well clearly people shouldn't pay for games, now, should they? And, even if it did have the evil cloud of monetary cost hanging over its head, I would hope that it would have a better customer support than someone coming back and saying... I don't know why it doesn't work, sorry.

One of the best gifts on this earth is the unconditional love of an animal

It is pure, free of judgement, and raises me to the utter height of glory.

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2018-05-12 16:28:55

Nocturnus wrote:

I've come to accept that in every circle there will always be people who love something extensively and cannot be persuaded to hear any kind of detraction from it.

I totally agree! It is fairly recent that I've come to realize this about people, and it has brought me tons of comfort to know that good and bad are the most subjective words ever.

Nocturnus wrote:

If we're going to compare audiogames to the mainstream market, we're always going to be disappointed.

I never grew up with mainstream games, so in a way I'm glad that audio games are a little shallow by comparison. I mean, I try not to complain about those which are more complex and I would like to learn how to play them effectively and confidently, but I do enjoy simplicity and am overwhelmed considerably by complex games.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
If you like what you're reading, please give a thumbs-up.

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2018-05-12 17:20:50

Hi again. I do apologize. But  seriously, I do think we need more games. I do also like RPG games, however all the other games except for FPS and RPG are great.  Card games or not that good. In my opinion.  I might even make a topic about Blindfold Games and how they might need to improve it.  However, we need to see more games.  Programming is not really my thing. However, there will be new games being released in the future I heard. We’ll just have to wait and see. Until then, looks like I will just stick to Alteraeon..

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2018-05-12 18:07:38

I admit, I stopped reading post 1 after you said Forget about swamp, because you'll have to pay for that and you're not doing that.
You want more, better games but you don't want to help that in any way... like I'm sure your $24 or $12 would definitely go towards helping Aprone create something even better, you never know. Besides, it's probably one of the, best, blind fps games out there because of its great lack of a toxic atmosphere which tends to offend some, the number of missions and achievements, and a generally helpful atmosphere. You're not gonna play it though because of the very small monetary requirement. In other words, people just need to make you better games, for free, and up to your quality standard.

Twitter: stevo399
Website: stevend.net
Have a nice day!

2018-05-12 18:18:35

Like I totally get complaining about games you don't like. I'd never say don't, because hell. Read my posts list and you'll find a whole damn lot of that, even me complaining about many free games! It's just the whole, I'm not gonna play a game I have to pay for, but also people need to start creating better games (and since you're not gonna pay, that implies they need to be free games). I won't even advise you learn to code, because honestly the whole programming thing is, like writing, or playing an instrument, or public speaking, or playing sports etc... it's a skill that only certain people have the capacity, willingness, passion, and patients to learn. Honestly anyway, I'd only suggest the coding route to those who complain about audio games, but do so in a semi-organized manner and provide ideas for innovation, or otherwise show some nack for creativity. The last thing we need is someone fed up of game creation, so goes and grabs a copy of the UP source thinking they can make the bestest free online fps ever in 5 minutes!

Twitter: stevo399
Website: stevend.net
Have a nice day!

2018-05-12 18:44:24

Since I'm bad at explaining and don't want to become That Money Guy, here's someone in the business explaining the costs of developing games, and how mainstream games are actually underpriced just to keep them cheap enough for people to be willing to buy:

Some of my games
Keep up to date by following @Jeqofire on twitter!
Ear Ninja?

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2018-05-12 18:44:32

Oh AHC does have its share of problems. I'm definitely not going to argue that. I just happen to feel that overall they don't outweigh the good points. As for Paladin I actually like the game, though I will certainly agree that the magic system in particular leaves a hell of a lot to be desired, and that's only one of the game's problems. Being at best a casual coder, and I'm probably exaggerating by even using the word casual here, I can only imagine the time and effort that might be involved in fixing sometimes even a minor bug since you have to be able to reproduce it consistently before you can go about trying to fix it, and of course that can be tricky since every machine is different. But I agree with others here. You can't really expect people to be able to create new and better games if they don't get compensated for their work. I've never played swamp simply because it's not my cup of tea, but if it were I'm sure I'd pay for it. But if you want new and better games, maybe you ought to try and learn to develop them yourself. It goes back to the old saying about how if you want a task well done you might just have to do it yourself.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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2018-05-12 19:04:51

Well. Here is the thing. It’s not me who does not want to pay for swamped. I know I said that. However, I would actually pay for it. But it’s my parents, they said I cannot buy it. They said I cannot buy it because of weird reasons..  they do not want me to subscribe to things which I have to pay for. So  would  I pay for? Absolutely, but not now.  And also it has great sound effects!  However, I just do not like the idea of paying for things, you are right nothing is free. But at least we have to have some free games.  I am open to submitting ideas, I might pay for in the future.

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2018-05-12 21:02:18

10 I completely disagree. Being a game doesn't offer online multiplayer makes it bad? Heck I even prefer offline games on online ones. A game that does offer story or exciting adventures or good combat or valuable gameplay or anything related to what is mentioned as well as a lot of elements that enhance the gameplay and the game's quality, for me is much better than just hanging out playing online with people. I actually have had enough of online games, heck I even see that people nowadays are overhyping them imo. I do really love offline RPG's which our marcket lacks a lot.

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2018-05-12 21:22:39

I'll chip in here and say that I partially agree with post 10. However, I think that, in my opinion, this is what makes nearly every new "modern" game bad. This is going to start flame wars but it *needs* to be said.
1. 99 percent of them are written in BGT. This makes it hard to develop truly immersive games, and games that I could play over and over for like 6-8 hours (I played Halo with a friend until about 4:11-4:12 this morning, a total of 6 hours, and we played at least 12 different MP games, both FPS-style and Co-Op).
2. None of these new "game developers" have true imagination. They're told to just 'sit down and code'. In truth that's not how game development works. You don't just sit down and start coding; that leads to a hole heap of issues such as the fact that you get to a certain point and then are unable to continue, you just can't figure out how you'll implement something, etc.
3. These "multiplayer games" in BGT are crap. Really. They are. There's absolutely nothing amazing about them, nothing immersive or fun about them. All you do is kill and get killed. And while Halo is like that too, if you go and actually play it you'll realize the reason its actually fun to play.
There are probably other reasons but these, I think, are the core ones that make modern games bad. But this only covers BGT games (which are practically 99.99999 percent of all new games these days). Those that are not written in BGT are either the really good ones (in the case of Swamp, Castaways, etc) or may have their hole heap of issues that they've created over time (AHC).
Also, before you guys go ranting off at me how we can't use modern game engines and all that bullshit, I'll throw your advice about making games right back in your face: sit down and code! Go get visual studio, install all the gaming workloads excluding the Unity ones, and write your own game engine and game from scratch using DiectX1 (if you want to port to Xbox later) or DirectX12 (if you want to port to Xbox when it actually supports that -- I think it does, not sure). Of course, that'll take months and months and months, if not years. But that's the time it takes to make a truly immersive game like Call of Duty, Killing Floor 1 or 2, etc. Time. Lots and lots and lots of time. And as for the game engines, too, I've managed, through some experimentation and difficulty, to both get CryEngine and Unreal Engine 4 to work, through a combination of OCR in the Epic Games Launcher and some tricky usage of NVDA while in the editor that I don't think I could describe. smile

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2018-05-12 21:23:09

Okay, I agree to a certain degree with what Eric says here I can see why he's thinking that audio games are somewhat stale nowadays but in my view, A hero's call has really begun to pull us out of the mud if you will, and Nick Addomson is building us a city builder which we definitely do not have up to this point, and as far as iPhone and android games, I personally think that if we'd like to see a persistent audio world, it's going to be on that kind of platform since the phones have an exceleramiter, sorry for the bad spelling of that word there, and I think it could be easily done. Believe me, since I want to see a persistent world so darn much and if only I knew how to code, believe me, I would get right to work on it. But I simply can not code. I would literally need someone to sit down with me and work with me one on one learning how to code. I would get others to help me with music and sounds, but if I could get someone to work with me on learning how to code, I would be more than happy to build us a persistent virtual world. I've got all kinds of ideas floating around up here in my head that can't get out.

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2018-05-12 22:03:17

BGT is ridiculous. It seems like an easy code, but it's not in my opinion. And also these audio games don't really have any good experiences. The only BGT games I like are Clash of Lightsabers and that's pretty much it. I also like offline games. I rather play offline games. A hero's call is so good, but yet small. The sound is good, and all that. And now I heard they are going to have another shooter out for the blind for iOS, so I'm really looking forward to it. But I really don't like the BGT games. Philip I think could of done a better job at doing this.

As a matter of fact, I mainly play Alter Aeon because I don't have any iOS games I would be excited to play. Like Nebula for example, heck that's so unstable. Anyway we are kind of getting off topic but... I think more audio games for iOS and Mac would be great. Goodbye BGT. I would advise, code with Python!!

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2018-05-12 22:52:31

@Erick, its not that BGT's coding is hard, its that its gotten most "game developers" into this mindset that they can sit down and just start coding and produce outstanding and amazing games. And what's resulted instead in games like Redspot that sound good but actually suck. smile

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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