2015-07-28 11:29:42

Hi,

According to someone I've interacted with on these forums, coding in Java is simpler than coding in BGT and there's a lot more functionality. Since Java's free (I think) and according to other people, C++ is ridiculous for blind developers aside from you having to buy it, I'm seriously considering switching to Java.

The thing is, I only want to build games in whichever language I settle on, not how to program every possible tiny little thing. Moreover, I want to learn how to build audio games, and I may need specific libraries to get going.

1. Where can I learn to code with Java/is there a manual I'll need to download to read about how to code with it?
2. Is there a special download package of Java that I'll need to build things with it?
3. What extra libraries will I need and how do I integrate them into the main Java package?

2015-07-28 11:40:47

Why is c++ rediculous for blind developers? I am not sure what you mean by having to buy something to use it, because visual studio community has been available free of charge for a while now. There's nothing i n c++ itself that makes it more difficult for a blind developer to use it, than any other language.

You'll want to get elcipse, the IDE of choice for java development. I'm not sure if you'll have to also get the java development kit separately, if eclipse's download doesn't come with everything you need.

I don't have any recommendations for a java book. Look for the best sellers in the java category on Amazon; the ones that have a 4 star rating or higher are usually a good choice.

You'll be duplicating the functionality that BGT provides out of the box, which will take some time e.g looking for a suitable library for 3d audio, serialization, keyboard input etc.

2015-07-28 13:17:23

I was under the impression that C++ took forever to code in and was therefore impractical when there were easier languages that did the same things. From what I was told, the only reason to code in C++ was to have a faster game.

I know BGT has all these things built in, but the person I mentioned was trying to build an engine in BGT to make the process of making complex games (like the one I had intended on making) simpler in that engine and then realised BGT wasn't made for the kind of games he was trying to code this engine to help make. Sorry if that ran on too long and confused anyone. I have no objections to doing the hard work if it's necessary, but if BGT flat can't do what I want it to, then it would seem Java is a simpler alternative with more functionality. I'm only considering switching over at the moment.

2015-07-28 14:52:01

Its true that c++ has a much much steeper learning curve than most other languages out there, but it lets you do many more things too.

Have you considered using c# as an alternative? I believe the process of talking to c/c++ libraries from c3 is easier than doing it with java.

2015-07-28 17:30:10

Hi, I'm "the person" mentioned here tongue BGT has a lot of limitations, and because I know Java very well and because it is a correct language to program with, I decided to port my engine in Java, and programing audio and screen reader libraries (some things already exists). One cool thing with my Java port: the full 3D sound support using openAL. Made in two days with a little lib, only two lines to play a sound.

C# could have been another choice, yes smile

For 3D audio: I made the lib. tongue (very similar to eveyr other openAL implementations in Java)
For screen readers; working on it, someone made a Java lib for NVDA JAWS and a few others to work
TTS: same thing
Games: my ported engine

See? I have everything you could want? big_smile lol more seriously, the goal of my engine is really to provide ready to use features like keyboard controls and all. smile

2015-07-31 06:36:30

Do you have a solution for the problem of distribution?
What really got me switching from Java to BGT was the fact that hardly anyone could get my java games to run, even on the same versions of Windows (IIRC, the one person who said they were using a Mac didn't have any trouble, but will have to check to be sure).

This was with multiple redundancies--jars and naked classes, batchfiles, .exe wrappers, packing it with the JRE...

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2015-08-06 01:11:21

@Victorious, do you have any idea how difficult it is to code a game in C++? C++ isn't, in fact, made for game development. It's mainly designed for systems programming: the programming and/or development of operating systems, or the programming of the programs therein. C++ is so complicated that it would be a miracle if anyone actually made a fully functional game in it, and that excludes MOTA. When I mean a fully functional game, I mean a complete game, which would be a game without betas, RCs, etc.
As for java resources, try Java Programming, ISBN 9781118058183. You can find it on bookshare.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-08-06 12:23:58

@Ethin : Unreal Engine is programmed in C++. So, yes, actually, a lot of professional games are made completely in C++. smile

2015-08-06 23:11:25 (edited by Ethin 2015-08-06 23:11:41)

@Genroa, I meant not game engines. And Unreal engine uses a lot of different systems and scripting languages atop c++, so no, not all professional games are made in C++.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-08-07 02:33:24

@Ethin, I certainly can not deny C++ is not the easiest programming language to learn, but most game developers, professional game developers, feel it is the best for game development. Contrary to what you may have heard or believe most mainstream games are developed in C++ ore more than likely developed with a game engine that was written in C++ and wrapped with a scripting language which simplifies game development. Developing games in C++ is not as complicated or hard as you seem to suggest, and many people have written complete and fully functional games in C++. So you are cutting the language short for what I suspect are some personal biases against the language.

Calling it a miracle if anyone ever wrote a "fully functional game in C++" truly underscores how little you know about the subject at hand. As a matter of fact the majority of professional game programming books presume you have a working knowledge of C++ and teach game programming from a C++ game developers perspective. While it is not always written from a newbie or beginners perspective the fact is the more one becomes familiar with C++ the easier it gets. So it isn't as hard or as difficult as you claim. It is like anything else in life the more you practice the better you get and can do more advanced stuff.

As for MOTA. Let's not bring that into the subject since that has absolutely no bearing on weather or not C++ is a good language for game development. the reason the game is currently incomplete has nothing to do with C++ and everything to do with my current health issues and lack of time or energy to work on it. The game's current state would be the same regardless if I was writing it in Visual Basic, Python, Java, or any other language you might suggest instead of C++ because development has been halted due to my own personal issues not the language and tools being used.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2015-08-07 04:22:56

I could write a game in C if I had the patience to hunt down all the necessary libraries to handle audio in a non-headache way.
Well, maybe. Memory management and some of the nifty objects like dictionaries and easily resizable arrays are a bit frustrating to build from scratch.
But I've looked into programming for the Sega Genesis/Megadrive, where your choices are either ASM or C. What keeps me from doing anything with it isn't the C, so much as the lack of any decent accessible way to create datafiles like XGM.

The principals are the same no matter what language you're using. It really comes down to libraries and hardware more than the language itself.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2015-08-07 08:32:17

Hey ethin, you know that q9 action game was written in c++. There were no betas; it was just released.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2015-08-07 19:58:52

The thing that drives me away from C++ is, as stated in many books I've read on the language, C++ comes with all the issues that C has, and, in fact, introduces many new issues that make people use other languages. Things like memory management - C allows you to do dangerous things with that (dangling pointers, no out-of-bounds array checking, etc.) - and C++ introduces the new, new[], delete, and delete[] operators, which furthermore complements the memory management issue. I agree, Tward, that c++ is a great language - and I use it a lot - but when it comes to memory management, I use something else. I do enjoy many aspects about C++ other than memory management issues though. Things like classes, namespaces, etc. allow you to sort your code into different sections - if you will - to organize it, while C just is a huge mess.
Another thing I like about C++ are templates. They allow you to make functions that can take any type of argument - it's quite cool. (that reminds me of the vaargs and mixed types in LPC.) Also, C and C++ is, for me at least, one of the best languages for writing compilers, parsers, and interpreters. (Java is the second best choice for me on that one.)
I could go into hundreds of debates with you all on what game was written in what language, and what languages are the best for so and so, but I don't have time for such debates - unless you can spare about a year or so for arguments that have no end, meaning, and that go absolutely nowhere and accomplish nothing.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-08-25 02:57:05

You know, every time this topic comes up, even if I'm the one to bring it up, I start getting discouraged and make no progress. Then I look back at the BGT user manual and am reminded of why I was so excited when I discovered it.

Put simply, the tutorials are written in such a way that I'm put at ease, and the process seems fun. I have yet to find a coding tutorial that makes me feel as optimistic as BGT does. I've been working on the hand-coding a little but it's been a while since I did that because a combination of life and general discouragement pulled me away. In the end, I have to ask myself, am I questioning the right thing? I feel that, with practice, I'll be able to build my game in BGT. All the features I will need are codable. I feel comfortable with it. Other people in this forum feel comfortable with other programs, and indeed, some of their plans require other programs to work. Perhaps BGT may not be the engine I use forever, but only I know what I want out of a game, and honestly, the sooner I have a world to play in, regardless of whether or not I stick with BGT, the sooner I'll be motivated to continue my project.

In short, I think I'm done asking if this is or isn't the right language for me to use. I want to have fun, and BGT's tutorials are written in the spirit of fun. That's why I keep coming back to it and smiling. The easy-going documentation resonates with me, and that hasn't changed despite the debates I've seen and started.

2015-08-25 04:29:06

hi
If you looking for java tutorials, try here.
http://zetcode.com/lang/java/