2018-05-29 16:42:29

Hi.
Thanks Aprone for letting me help by hosting a stable download link.
Can someone please help me by testing something? I think I have a solution which might work pretty stable. I'm hosting it on my payed iCloud drive. It would be great if some people will try to download the file to see if it's stable enough. If it is stable, then feel free to copy this link into the first post of the topic so it's easier to find. If it's not stable, then I can host it either on my server or on my website. I have a lot of solutions, and I'm willing to host this for free.
Here is the link, and please give some feedback on if it's stable or not:
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/06Tg … g#Swamp_37

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2018-05-29 16:52:16

@Aprone:
Have you considered adding a buffering option that loads commonly used sounds (weapons, zombies, steps, etc) before gameplay starts? This would obviously require a pause for processing, but it might deal with a lot of the loading-from-disk latency entirely, as long as players are willing to make the intentional choice to wait a wile.

2018-05-29 17:32:32

John, that new increased sound buffers option does that.

Well the game does that normally, to some extent, but by raising and lowering the sound buffer levels you are choosing how much space is set aside for holding common sounds in memory.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2018-05-30 12:38:16

ther'es no need to host anything. there's already a download linik up on bsg under the swamp sektion. it only includes the main game, not the patch but still.

2018-05-30 16:57:36

@Aprone:
After rplaying through the single most awesome defender I've ever been on, I wanted to ask if it'd be possible to add trading during them. There doesn't seem  to be any downside, and it'd really help us focus damage (I had 90 points available for my single-shot ACR whereas somebody else was blasting away with a vulcan). It'd also let people hand off items if they're about to die, and hopefully give the rest of the team a better shot.

2018-05-30 18:18:12

John, I will absolutely keep that in mind.  I haven't seen anyone do a defender in ages, but they can get quite intense and be a ton of fun.  It's too bad you weren't recording your mission, haha.  Many players don't know how good those can be, and a few recordings of really awesome defender missions might get new people to try them.  Maybe someone who does recordings will take this idea and do one.  tongue

I'm still coding away like a mad man, trying to get the new content finished.  I'm like 90% sure I won't get it finished before the month ends, but I really wanted to at least let players see it who don't plan on renewing when their free month has ended.  I've put in a few hours already this morning, but since I don't have that many more hours of free time left, I need to stop rambling here and get myself back to work!  big_smile

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2018-05-30 18:51:44

Just do a gift wrapping  event to keep us happy LOL.

2018-05-31 01:21:37

so I hope we'll see that new content in june or something! before
we are excited about the that

2018-05-31 11:19:08

@aprone
people really don't care about defender, mainly because it doesn't reward you at all.
It's pretty fun though when  you're on skype or teamtalk with a bunch of friends.
I however have suggestions, I think xp and rep gain from killing zombies should be enabled on defender missions, (encourages people to kill zombies),  and the reputation pot also needs a boost, At around wave 10-15 the pot gets up to 500 at maximum. imagine  sharing that amount with 7 people. so you'l basically get nothing out of it.

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2018-05-31 11:20:42

i'll be renewing anyway aprone.

2018-06-01 02:47:00

To reward players for the million zombie challenge, the server has been updated to add in a team of 10 AI controlled bots.  These 10 bots (Stonedust, Magicdust, Coaldust, Golddust, Bonedust, Sawdust, Chalkdust, Cricketdust, Metaldust, and Claydust) will automatically jump into launched CTF missions, to balance the teams.  In the past if you got together 2 friends and wanted to play a CTF match, your only option would be a boring 2 verses 1 match.  With the introduction of these bots, you could choose to have all 3 of you on one team, and 3 bots would be added to fill in on the other team.  So the same 3 friends would now be able to have up to a 3 verses 3 game without needing to convince anyone else to join in.

I sincerely hope this will breathe some new life into the CTF matches.  I've always thought it would be cool if we had an actual league, with teams that competed in official tournaments.  We never had enough interest to make that happen, but maybe by some small chance this will help push us in that direction.

There is a client update in the works, but I still need to do quite a bit more to it before it is ready.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2018-06-01 05:51:21

Hi Aprone and all,

I've run defenders that have gone up to wave 90 or there abouts. the mission wasn't something you go into to gain rep or xp, but it was a hell of a lotta fun! It also took nearly a couple hours real time. but the way we spread out the defenders, made a huge difference. Sadly the last stand went down no matter what we all did to keep it from going. It seems there are blocks of the last stand where zombies can get to, and they're still not actually near the lunchroom. So some how some tiles are placed I'd say slightly incorrectly there. Best guess anyway.
In any event, I think our biggest take of rep on one of those was like 5k each. and a good deal more xp. Again, nothing to say hey, "Let's run a defender you get mad xp on it." lol

If trading can be set up in defender missions, that'd be awesome! And maybe even boost the rep or xp take, that'd sweeten the deal
smile

Also Aprone, if the hc code for forts can be worked on, that'd be great. The problem is, if you're in your own fort, you gain no xp if your fort only has the one.
Not even if you kill z's on the fort map. This really needs to get fixed somehow.!

Thanks Aprone, and I'll be renewing shortly also.
big_smile

2018-06-01 07:40:02

hello.
@Aprone, Is it possible to add an options in Swamp practice mode, to make the items respawn like zombies? now, if you start a map with 100 zombies and 100 items, the items will not respawn, but the zombies will automatically respawn. this idea will make swamp single player more fun, and some people who can't aford swamp because of their geographic location or lack of money, can still enjoy playing swamp

All the best,
Adel, Akbari.

2018-06-01 07:44:23

Hi.
Interesting update. Thanks for the awesome reward.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2018-06-01 13:28:48

I love the new CTF LOL love killing the bots, Thanks prone.  I wish you could steal their weapots when they die.  Thanks again.

2018-06-01 14:45:55

wooooow, free month is over. glad to be of service in killing one million zombs. Next time if we're to kill million of any number of zombie killing challenge, we should have the scoreboard where we  all can see who killed how much etc. that way it will be even more awesome event to participate!
Well untill next time and any new awesome things added to swamp, laters friends. smile

Often we have no time for our friends, but all the time in the world for our enemies.

2018-06-01 18:13:40 (edited by john 2018-06-01 18:42:47)

I'd originally made this post to mention bot reloading and fire rates, since they just seem to empty their hunting rifles without respect to clip sizes at an amazing rate. Instead, I'll turn it into some thoughts on the 5:5 CTF that just ended.
For the record:
Congratulations!  Your team won with a score of 7 to 2.  For the Red team: joão had 18 kills, 0 captures, and 1 returns.  Duckington had 106 kills, 6 captures, and 14 returns.  xorg had 48 kills, 1 captures, and 2 returns.  For the Blue team: Stonedust had 7 kills, 0 captures, and 0 returns.  Magicdust had 6 kills, 0 captures, and 0 returns.  Coaldust had 6 kills, 0 captures, and 0 returns.  Golddust had 2 kills, 1 captures, and 0 returns.  Bonedust had 2 kills, 1 captures, and 0 returns.

First, let me start by saying those kill and return stats look a bit weird, unless all the other humans just died a lot less than me. I wasn't counting, but would not be surprised to hear the vast majority of those bot kills were me alone.

Overall, this was insanely fun, and the most fast paced CTF I've played in a long time.
There was one point where I'd run out of medkits, and was standing just inside the door of our base (hidden by a half wall) with the hammer, smashing skulls as they came in. The bots were an awesome idea Aprone, and I can't wait to see where they go next! I'd also like to see some mixed human-bot teams, and suspect I'll have the chance to do so soon. The kill rate was unbelievably high.

On gunfighting:
The bots are absolutely lethal. They're incredibly fast, and they don't have to pause to shoot you while they run for your base like well... an army of robots after your children's blood. They do seem to die pretty easily; a couple bursts of an assault rifle does them in. That said, I also seemed to die a lot more easily than usual, so maybe its a balance change across the board. I had luck hitting them at long range, and there were points where they ignored me and just ran; my guess is they have randomly assigned strategy and a limit on range.
When they do shoot though, you die. At times I felt like I was just being utterly annihilated by a swarm of piranhas. I'd pause to return fire against a single bot, and another one would come running in and shoot me from  behind. I'd kill the first, turn around, and here comes a third.

On strategy:
The bots have some amazing coordination, or maybe it just seems that way. No matter what I did, if one bot was around, another would follow in only a second or two. They made for a very different ctf than what I was used to, though the sheer number of players did that as well (this is the first time I've seen 10 people since I started playing again at the end of April).
I'm honestly not sure how we scored as well as we did; my only theory is that the bots struggle a bit with flag capturing itself and try to make up with that by slaughtering their enemies utterly. If they were as good at running flags as they were killing me, we wouldn't have stood a chance.

2018-06-01 19:30:19

actually i'd love to see a scoreboard anyway. 1 for total kills 1 for kills per life as it were and 1 for kills on specific maps.

2018-06-01 20:02:51

John, as far as I can tell from the code the bots obey the correct clip sizes, firing rates, and reload times for the guns they use.  Since they don't suffer from any latency in 1 direction (they Are the server), it may make them seem a little faster than other players.  The other possibility is that, as you noted yourself, the bots like to move in teams for support and you could be hearing shots from multiple bots who are running side by side.

I don't think the server is correctly crediting the bots with flag returns.  I'm glad you posted that mission score because it made me notice that.  It's on my list to fix now.

One of the bot's biggest advantages is it's ability to seamlessly turn and fire at a player without abandoning it's travel plans, haha.  There are of course players who can time and balance their side step keys and backwards to do the same, but it's hard to do while concentrating on aiming and firing.  Most players wouldn't notice, but because they are constantly mixing side stepping (and backwards) into their movements, their overall speed is a bit slower than the human players.  It's nice knowing that their fancy spinning while moving trick comes with a bit of a down side in terms of overall speed.

I've raised their starting health from 175 to 200 today, since they do drop pretty fast once you can get some rounds headed in their direction.  That health seems unfairly high compared to human players, but the bots aren't able to benefit from health boosts or the armor that players pick up as they go.  In early tests I gave the bots only 125 health (what players get) and they were dying so fast it wasn't any fun at all.  If I end up coding them to benefit from armor, I'll likely go back and remove this starting health boost they get.

Speaking of their limitations, you are correct that they've been limited on range and what weapons they can use.  I didn't want them using anything too laggy (I'm looking at you vulcan!) since the server has to still do all of it's usual workload, plus the work of simulating 10 players now.  Giving them the same range as players was brutally unfair, as I saw in early tests.  I may tweak them over time, but for now I enjoy not being sniped from 50 tiles away, haha.

Keeping processing power low is also why they sometimes ignore you and just run to where they are going.  At times where processing would be over their "limit", they dial their brains down to simpler tasks.  I'd love to squeeze a bit more performance out of them so they do that less, but even them just racing in to grab the flag and run helps their team considerably.

Strategy is something the bots try to use to their advantage.  Moving in groups is something I'm glad you've noticed, and I didn't know if it would come across in audio.  I thought their mass of footsteps might make them sound like a big blob.  Like moving pieces in chess where you defend each with the others, the bots do what they can to always have a teammate in the area that can jump over to help.

This morning I made some changes to the bots.  They should use voice taunts after getting kills (sorta hard to be in the right place to hear it, but it happens), their offensive strategies were tweaked a bit, and they can use burst mode on 4 of the guns.  When it comes to bots in any game, code intentionally holds them back from operating at their true potential.  If in the course of the match the bots notice that you are better players than them, they will gradually dial up their skill to provide you with a better match.  That part hasn't been tested much, but I hope it works as intended.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2018-06-01 20:42:08

Thanks aprone.
The footsteps sound good and I wear hearing aids which makes things interesting to say the least, LOL.  I am getting use tohearing them correctly.

2018-06-01 22:47:53

@Aprone:
I really, really enjoyed reading that post. Great details smile.
Rather than try and really process it right now, I'll put your last bit to the test and throw a nonstandard situation at the bots. I'll go on a ctf, and apply a couple criteria:
(1) it'll just be a one on one game, and (b) I'll play for a long time to see what happens. Earlier the bot ended up grabbing my flag and running back to its base, but since it was just the two of us that gave me lots of time to go loot and then barbicue the poor thing. I'm interested to see if that behavior changes after a while.

As an aside, a while ago you'd mentioned that one simulation you'd created taught the computer to learn from past instances of itself. Have you implimented this here?

2018-06-02 00:37:02

John, as it currently stands, if a bot steals your flag it will basically just sit in base waiting for someone to return it's own flag.  The original code would allow it to still travel around and fight, but there was a weird bug that arose during testing and the quick solution was to just remove that portion until I have enough time to dig into why.  So for now, when a bot finds itself carrying a flag but it's own flat is not at base, it gets a lovely melon-baller scooping out most of it's brain.  The bot returns to normal as soon as it is not in this very specific predicament, but that would be why you can wander the map with impunity and build yourself up into the new god of destruction.

While the bots do employ learned strategies, those strategies were learned during a training process that happened before they were put into the server.  Things may change later, but for now the bots are not technically learning anything new.  They rely on the strategies that were previously developed, just picking and choosing the ones that make sense at the moment.

Now if the Swamp community gets to some point where we have multiple teams of skilled CTF players (something I'd truly Love to see), then it would make tons of sense to get the bot teams actively observing and learning from the players' strategies.  So we'll see how things go!  big_smile

I have a very long list of client changes to make before the next client update can be released, but I intend to work on team warehouse missions soon.  Those never really worked out how I wanted, so they will be revamped to try and make them just as enjoyed/played as regular warehouse missions.  The dueling nature of them never really appealed to people, and I do see why.  I added them in because it is the sort of thing I would personally enjoy in multiplayer games (risk my character's life to destroy someone else), but my style isn't very common.  I'm still juggling ideas, but for starters the losing team will not lose their inventory.  The winning team will likely get more rewards than a normal warehouse, to make up for the chance that they would be on the losing team and receive less (or none).  Defenders may get a revamp after team warehouse.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2018-06-02 07:44:06

That CTF addition is nice can't wait to check it out. I didn't play many back when I played more, but I need to make some time to jump on the game. I'm going on a trip next week, but I hope to be able to do that when I get back

A Candle Loses Nothing by Lighting Another Candle…
" GamerTag is. ItsTBlaze & Twitter @TBlaze97
"One Love"

2018-06-02 16:02:49

woooow man these ctf missions with the bots sound so bad ass.....I have to give this a try.....where can I download the full game plus all patches??? I am on a new laptop, so my swamp has evaporated into dust a long time ago

can i get a peace double harmony burger? no chaos

2018-06-02 20:30:50

lol, i tryed this new bots from 1 of my friends account because my account is finnished. and i really love the idea thanks aprone for this great  work, and it's cool when the 10 bots are fighting in 1 mission big_smile but i think you should add a little bit more damage to them, 1 of them today used mg4 but it doesn't do much damage. thank you, and keep up the great work.