2014-03-24 08:55:31

well, there was a rather heated discussion among my friends on what's truely vegetarian, and I thought of putting it up hear for different views.

wickipedia defines the term as "A vegetarian diet is derived from plants, with or without eggs or dairy."
while this defenition might seem satisfactory enough, if one were to think of the true cause, the true intend of being a vegitarian, the whole view bounces out of the confinement of the above defenition. if the intend is, (as in most cases), to avoid killing, or distruction of any lifeform, then the cunsumption of food granes will have the same effects as that of an egg, right? (both are embryos, waiting to give rise to a new life.) then a strict vegetarian must confine him/herself to a diet involving pland parts like fruits, roots, leaves and the like? and above all these, lies the age old questian of the dairy products. are those truely veg?

so, what do you think?

friends:
come and join my
facebook group!

2014-03-24 12:07:07

Chandu, as far as my views goes I consider vegetarianism is principally of consuming foods that come from plants such as roots, leaves, stocks, fruits, grains, etc. Basically, any part of a plant that can be safely consumed by a human being. I don't really consider dairy products as being vegetarian in nature because that comes from cows, goats, etc and I don't consider eggs vegetarian either because those come from ducks, chickens, and geese.

As to the issue of avoiding the destruction of any life form then you are going to find that is pretty much unavoidable no matter what you eat regardless if it comes from a plant or an animal. Fruits carry the seeds required for that plant to reproduce so if you happily munch down on an orange, apple, grape, etc you are in a sense killing the plant's young. You can minimize this by saving and planting the seeds, but most people don't do that. If you cut down a celery plant to eat its stocks you are once again killing that plant to eat its stocks. If you dig up a carrot or onion to eat it you are once again killing the plant because carrots and onions are a vital part of that plants root system. Eating its roots is going to kill the plant. Grains like wheat, oats, etc are a part of a plants reproductive system so once again we are back to eating the plant's young.

Point being, if you are adopting vegetarianism out of some altruistic sense not to kill life be it fish, cows, sheep, fowl, etc then you haven't considered the fact that we kill plants all the time in order to eat their seeds, roots, stocks, and so forth. Unless a person is willing to starve to death taking life in order to survive is all a part of the natural order of things. Every animal in the world does it so I think adopting a vegetarian diet should be done out of health benefits not because someone is squeamish about killing a cow for hamburger or turning a chicken in to chicken filets.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2014-03-24 16:45:52

As I understood the terminology the principle difference between  vegitarian and vegan was that   people on a vegitarian diet can eat those  products derived from an animal that did not mean the death of that animal, eg milk and dairy products, and according to some definitions eggs (sinse some vegitarians such as Peter singer do not considder the potential   Embryo of a chicken, duck etc to  be a living animal).

A  person on a Vegan diet however refuses to eat anything even vaguely derived from animals, so a vegan pretty much lives on plants.

I don't say I agree with either  of these positions personally  these are just the definitions I've read.

Personally while I do not like the idea of eating meet derived through unnecessary suffering of a sentient animal, eg, battery farming, use of    tethers etc and try to by  free range when I can (though I can't always), I'm not intrinsically against eating meet itself, sinse practically humans need  protein and there are ei eight essential amino acid groups that can only be derived from animals and a very few plants.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-03-27 18:45:29

here's an ethical question.

From my reading, and having a vegan couple as neighbors, I know how restrictive the diet can be. I know just how difficult it is to get the nutrients you need from a vegan diet-- hard, not impossible. Many protein sources from veggies are incomplete, with soy being the only exception. this means that you have to fit your diet together like a puzzle to make sure you get the proteins your body needs. you have to be very aware and willing to focus on your nutrition to make sure you're living well. It's easy, on a vegan diet, to miss out on very vital nutrients. Us meat-eaters usually don't know or care what nutrients in our food, and mostly, we don't have to worry so long as we eat some salad every now and then. Vegans have to stay on top of all that.

so, the question, and keep in mind that I don't know a whole lot. Is it irresponsible for a pregnant mother to be on a vegan diet?

So many vital nutrients come from milk, eggs, yogurt, and other dairy stuff. I know my neighbors talk about "their numbers" and how they fluctuate from good to bad. I assume these are numbers relating to their nutrition. Unborn babies can easily be malformed or have birth defects if not given the right amount of nutrition in the womb. If I were vegan, I would be terrified of not giving my child enough of one thing or another, especially when it comes to complete and essential proteins. A vegan diet has to be constantly and carefully monitored it seems like, and even more so if you got a baby to feed.

Thoughts?

Sugar and spice, and everything ....

2014-03-27 22:15:40

It is entirely possible to have good nutrition without eggs and dairy.  It does require some work to figure out how to get complete proteins, and there are issues with soy and male development, but it's no more work than figuring out how to avoid the unnecessary antibiotic exposure that one gets from industrial meat production for instance, or the growth hormones that come through dairy products.

2014-03-28 04:22:29

Cinnamon wrote:

so, the question, and keep in mind that I don't know a whole lot. Is it irresponsible for a pregnant mother to be on a vegan diet?

no,I don't think so. as long as the mother is taking good care of the requirements, a vegan diet is no problem. like you yourself wrote, it's just finding a balanse between the different foods.

friends:
come and join my
facebook group!

2014-03-28 14:36:15

Well Cinnamon, yes, a Vegan mother would need to be especially  careful with her diet, however this is no different to someone say stopping drinking while  pregnant  or even making sure they can devote enough time and attention to the child. in the  end whether  someone is Vegan or not it comes down to the old issue,  is the mother really prepared to  alter her life style around having a  child?  A question which can also be asked of the father. As per usual some people will, but unfortunately more than a few won't.

@Violinist, one thing I will say is that farming regulations in Britain particularly tend to mean a lot of hormones and the like are outlawed, indeed it's a regular arguement betweene Parlimant and Europe, though it does mean if you go and buy   Aberdine Angus beef,  that is just what you get, indeed last year there was a severe  row  when  beef imported from  Poland by supermarkets for use in fast food was found to contain traces of horse meet, which predictably with the government response ended up in a crack down on importing meet.

this is one reason as I said that I'm fairly careful about what I tend to buy.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-03-28 21:48:00

I guess that's my biggest concern with a pregnant woman on a vegan diet, is that so many people just don't take the time to care. However, all of the 3 vegetarians or vegans I know do take extra care and pride in what they eat. I guess that goes along with the lifestyle.

I think that because you do have to watch what you eat, vegetarians *generally* are more healthy than most of the American population especially. I mean, it's rare to see a vegetarian at McDonald's snacking on fries or a milkshake. they're very into things like healthy lettuce wraps and the Mediterranean diet, both very healthy and wonderful things.

Speaking to the meat aspect, I never much cared about what kind of meat I ate until I started dating a four-time cancer surviver. Frozen fried chicken in a box? Sounds like dinner to me. Living with him, we buy organic milk and eggs and meat when we can. It's pretty disconcerting how chemical-laced most foods are. If I could afford it, I'd buy all organic anything I could find. Sadly, I work a part-time job, and he's still in school. In the US, it seems to me that everyone wants everything cheaper. The food industry has over 300 million people to feed, and they all want the cheapest meat possible. to keep up with that demand, farmers resort to all kinds of bad practices to keep prices low and keep the product coming. the media would be all in a fit if a Burger King burger was found to contain horse meat, but nobody cares what quality the meat itself is... as long as we can pretend it's cow.

Sugar and spice, and everything ....

2014-03-29 03:01:36

Well   Cinnamon, I think that is one of the differences  the Us and england. I'm not saying there isn't fast food and a lot of bad stuff over here too, but it's relatively easy to find something decent without going on a major health binge or only shopping at specifically health food related places. Indeed, you can often get reasonable quality stuff just based on where you do your shopping, one reason for example why I will buy meat from the marks and Spensor supermarket, but not from somewhere like Tesco or co op. Also remember that roasts are still pretty commonly eaten in Britain,  so there are people like my parents who would be very quick to complain if the quality of the meet wasn't good enough, this is another reaso the government cracks down somewhat on farming regulations and what can and cannot be used in the food industry over here, that and the fact that  there is a conscious effort being made to keep Britains farms going despite foreign  competition.

Of course this is often a double edged sword sinse it often gets in the way of  quite harmless and reasonable  scientific farming practices, such as genetic screening.

Also however remember britain has a very  large Hindu population, so vegitarian options are pretty much as standard, and vegan ones are becoming  more common. 

Of course that also  means frequently vegitarians get just as much fast food as anyone else, particularly with the large amount of Indian and Chinese food around.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)