2013-09-23 06:11:34

Hi.
I don't know who deals with spelling mistakes on the Audiogames.net website, but there are some spelling mistakes on the perilous hearts Web Page.

I'm gone for real :)

2013-09-23 06:22:48

Hi.
I'm not a moderator, but I think this should be moved to the sight and forum feedback section of the forum. Not to be rude or anything, just pointing out that general forum questions like this would best fit in there.

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2013-09-23 07:16:36

Hi.
Ah I forgot about that room.
smile

I'm gone for real :)

2013-09-23 10:27:44

Moderation!

yes, this topic has been moved and should not have been in the offtopic room.

I've been through the page and fixed the errors, though really other than the word full which I'd missed an L off, (obviously I'd written that page in something of a hurry), it didn't seem too bad, stilll it's fixed now.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2013-09-23 15:11:56

Hi.
@dark
Thanks for moving it.
As for it not looking to bad, I don't know what voice you use or screen reader but I found two words that were misspelled.

voluntiere instead of volunteer
And there is one will with one l missing.

You might think I'm making a big deal out of nothing but to me spelling is extra extra important, especially when running a sight or writing for it.
I know this would never happen, but any chance of me helping with that? I could check through the site and fix spelling mistakes, that way it would be easier on you. smile nah, I'm sure that can't happen but well, I tried. smile Plus my spelling isn't perfect.

I'm gone for real :)

2013-09-23 15:57:51

Well voluntier I fixed, so i don't know what your complaint is with that.

Regarding spelling, remember I can't use a spellcheck for the entries, since they are written with
html code and I'd have the spellcheck flagging every line.
Point out if you like, but to be honest there are more important things really, like writing new entries or getting information into the db.

English is a stupid language to spell anyway, (my Italian teacher has very strong views on the subject given how Italian, like Spanish is entirely phonetic).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2013-09-23 17:51:45

hi.
@dark
I think it's the fact that you are using aurtheous or how ever you spell it, I'm not sure but I think you use hell, I know that's spelt wrong.

But the word volunteer, is spelt wrong. Look it up on the internet if you don't believe me, it's what i did.
Plus my screen reader says it wrong so...

As for your thing about spelling not mattering as much as DB entries, I totally disagree with that.
Surely it's better to have a correctly spelt entry than 100 misspelled ones?
Doesn't anyone else agree with me on this?
As for the hole HTML thing, couldn't you write up your posts in a plane text editor like notepad and then add the HTML template around that?

I'm gone for real :)

2013-09-25 17:58:50 (edited by Green Gables Fan 2013-09-25 18:01:10)

Hi,
This is quite an interesting topic and although I am not some spelling and grammar police in any given language, I must say that the word "volunteer" and "voluntiere" sound the same to me using Nuance Real Speak. One good thing about using Eloquence is that it tells you when you miscapitalised the letter I. And Nuance will not pause at the end of a sentence if the start of the word is uncapitalised.
When I first saw this post, I thought Brad was referring to the perilous heart website off the forum, not on the sticky game threads. I don't know what it is about me but I sometimes feel like I should correct others and may see it as a way of helping not criticizing.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2013-09-26 11:56:56

Well I'm actually not using Orphius anymore, and am using realspeak. I have noticed the capitalisation thing Casta, though usually I have Hal set to read capitals as I type, though generally realspeak is slightly worse on spelling and pronounciation  overall, but I'm stuck at the moment since orphius has crashed on me.

What particularly irritates me with realspeak is the way it can't apply the same rules to unusual words and fantasy conventions as it can to English.

For example postman or policeman it does fine with, but cyberman it says as "cyber an" with a completely missing m for no readily apparent reason, and never mind what it does to more unusual words or fantasy names.

I also ddislike the way it has preset acronyms and will speak them irrispective of situation. Being told in a game my character has 46 horse power and 84 street instead of Hp and St is quite annoying, as is reading about that well known self voicing system for windows, manuscript sapi.

Then again, for rythm, for pleasant phonemes and for intonnation Daniel is a far better option than eloquence, which is pretty much my only other choice at this point (I particularly dislike eloquence's attempt at British English).

Regarding spelling, really, English is a stupid language, voluntiere should end t e a r!

I fixed voluntiere the other day so if it's still showing as wrong that's a problem at your end (and btw Brad, my screen reader is Hal, H A L), or at least it was before the official name changed to supernova screen reader as it did a few versions ago.

As I said I don't mind correcting these, but there really are more important things to do on the Db, and certainly all the entries do get a read through and obvious corrections by me before posting.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2013-09-26 20:14:34

Hi dark.
When I look on the internet, volunteer is spelt, v, o, l, u, n, t, e, e, r.
So I'm sorry to say, it's still spelt wrong.

Oh wow, I just tried Vocalizer voices and it says voluntier  as volunteer, that's rather annoying.

I can see how you'd get those spellings wrong with a voice that says words that are spelt wrong in the right way.
This is why I use eliquence because if a word is spelt wrong, it will say it wrong.

I'm gone for real :)

2013-09-26 21:26:35

I generally prefer not to comment on other peoples' orthography when nobody, including me, is perfect at it, but it's really quite important for clarity of communication to spell correctly.

Unfortunately, English is a very nasty language, not just orthographically but syntactically and semantically as well, leading to all sorts of abuses which make making spelling and grammar mistakes unreasonably easy. Blind people all seem to have been guilty, at one stage or another, of simply trusting their TTS, leading to very interesting spellings. If you learn to spell, then a braille display can be enormously helpful in verifying your spelling and practising using the words of others. Obviously, it helps to have and use a spell checker too, and ideally also a dictionary and thesaurus. On Windows I found that this was difficult unless you had an office suite installed, but on Mac (yes, yes, Windows vs Mac again) every text entry field has spell check, leading to instant spelling improvements for me.

On this forum, I've become accustomed to spelling just not being well attended, and taken it for granted that since we're all in the same boat, nobody is going to mind too badly. It's about games, many of us are blind, and we can all afford to relax and forgive any digressions. Sadly though, when you're publishing a website that is intended to attract some degree of serious visitors, not spelling correctly basically amounts to giving a pass to a frustrating and unnecessary eyesore. So, any effort to correct serious runs of spelling errors would, I think, contribute to a more professional impression. This is not, BTW, to suggest that we all turn into lifeless headmasters, simply that we make some amount of effort.

Just myself, as usual.

2013-09-27 10:54:09

What annoys me the most is that some names of games, developers, places in games, and such, are spelled wrong, and some of them don't even have the first letter capitalised.
Correct grammar and spelling is of great importance to me, so I'd actually rather see 200 intries with correct spelling rather than 400 with mistakes scattered here and there.
I don't mind people spelling something wrong in their second or third language, but when it's their first language I expect that they'll be doing a better job. Learning to spell by listening to a screen reader... Well, do I need to say how little that'll help? smile
Call me a grammar-nazi if you want, I know I am... big_smile

To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
William Blake - Auguries of Innocence, line 1 to 4

2013-09-27 11:00:32

Well obviously I do! use ms word's spellcheck system when writing things for publication such as my thesisor indeed when I write book reviews or articles. The principle problem with the db is that since I have to hand code all the html, running a spellcheck constantly flags the code (heck html in ms word is a bit loopy anyway which is why I use wordpad for writing the entries).

I will occasionally copy words into ms word to check their spelling, which is indeed what I did with voluntiere, but I can't do that with the complete entry.

Regarding Braille displays, well I don't unfortunately own one due to high cost and general ability to manage without, but equally it's actually been reading braille that buggered my spelling due to reading in grade 2. Heck, I still! occasionally slip up and write say little with one t.

I will also add that spelling is a regional thing, and I use British varients, for example  thorough, colour or armour with O U R, not O R as the American spelling, so it is possible that some people's spellchecks if set to American English flag up mistakes that are not mistakes (i've seen this happen on several occasions).

It is true about English being a stupid language, indeed id I often have discussions with my Italian teacher about the fact that English is irregular in it's applications of gramatical rules, ---- in fairness Italian also has some random irregularities, for example there are some verbs that have random irregular forms and some that don't, (though in some ways Structurally different to Spanish, this is one major difference I notice, since Spanish was far more regular).

Interestingly enough though, Italian, like spanish is entirely phonetic. Myself, I'm still of the opinion that English should be phoneticised, that all words should just be spelt as they sound, not by some random rules setup by a nutty Scotsman 5 hundred years ago. Btw, this is apparently why the g h is used in so many English words like Thorough, because Samual Jonson had a distinct scotish bur. I've also heard that many of our modern english spellings aare borrowed from Middle English, but middle English iis! phonetic.

For example the middle english word for knight is spealt exactly the same way, but apparently pronounced ka-'nig'hit, rather like the German for King.

So yes, English is Silly!

As I've said I don't mind correcting stuff, however equally I'm not going to loose too much sleep over a few buggered letters, heck even when i was writing my thesis and my research assistant (who has a masters in English Language), was looking over it and querying every single possible vague gramatical foyble, there were various spellings that she admitted were just personal choice, eg, i s e or I Z E at the end of words like initialize. Even I'm not completely sure on that one since while using the s is the traditional British spelling, z is closer to the way the words are actually pronounced.

I think the thing that irritates me most about English spellings is that we so often reduce vowels to a flat uh sound, even when this is a completely different vowel to what is written. for example, most people do not actually say the word evil as "ee vill" but as something closer to "ee vul" likewise, a word like taken is not said as "tay ken" but as "tay kun"

This actually comes up a lot in singing since it's far easier to have your audience able to hear your words if you sing the vowels as written, rather than as pronounced, but if you overdo this you end up sounding completely artificial and lacking in emotion, ---- I recently had a peace of very angry orotorio recitative where I actually had to tell people to "repent! of the! EEE vill!" not Repent of the evil"

And this gets even when worse when you add in need to alter mouth position in order to sing higher, for instance when singing the part from the Messiah "every valley shal be exaulted!" I actually have to change three quarters of the way through a long run to "exaaaalted!" just to be certain that my A flat will not take too much muscular pressure.

indeed I suspect it is my singing which is the reason why most people say I have a very propper and somewhat overly posh accent and way of speaking big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2013-09-29 18:49:58 (edited by jjgeek 2013-10-09 23:55:15)

Interesting discussion. I could write for hours about the many idiosyncrasies I've heard with various TTS engines over the years. Or should that be idiosinkrasies? DECtalk says those 2 slightly different. But suffice it to say I have found all these pronunciation things quite amusing. The English language is indeed quite complex and at times a bit perplexing. This coming from a native speaker. I have been told by others before that I am a great speller, and I think I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with this assertion. People have, as a matter of fact, sought out my advice over the years with help spelling various things. My honest opinion regarding the spelling of things on this website is that there seem to be so few mistakes that it really shouldn't be a big deal. Please note that this is only based upon my limited use of the site, as I have only been registered on here since 31 July and I haven't posted much. I would normally take issue with this stuff, but the spelling errors seem to be minor and I think anyone who is familiar enough with the English language can probably just infer the meaning of things by way of context. I suppose this goes hand in hand with the fact that the website developers are not native English speakers. Or at least this seems to be the case with most of them. I could go on writing about the website for my volunteer job, but I don't want to stray off topic. I think this is a great website and I for one, have not been thrown off course by the spelling errors so far.

2013-10-07 15:33:22

Glad things on the site aren't too bad jjgeek
, it's particularly however about the entries in the game database.

While it is true Richard and Sander who administrate the site and wrote the text for the front page etc are Dudtch, I am from England, as was Cx2, who also used to work on the Db. Nocturnus, Staindadict and Arqmeister are all from the Usa, so at least as far as the game db goes the majority of people working on it  are indeed native speakers.

Of course as I said, while I don't mind the odd correction, it's not something I see much point being a total fanatic over.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)