2013-04-15 18:10:43 (edited by Victorious 2013-04-15 18:13:29)

@Jod: Having a menu where players could learn game sounds would be very helpful. I think that if the game gets more complex, e.g more items/spells, having actual text to speech/prerecorded speech would probably be necessary.

2013-04-15 18:14:43

may be you can add a look feature, for by pressing the ship plus E, S, F, and D. for example, teleporter, 12 feet.

going in to the wilds, collecting pokedex, and capturing them are my kind of thing,
training them, making them evolve, and generally making them stronger is my ultimate goal,
fighting other manamon tamers, winning the tournament, and fighting octoros are what these manamons like to do,
and ultimately, I become the master of mana!

2013-04-15 18:22:02

I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I like that the game doesn't talk. Most audio games are too verbose as it is.
Being able to learn the game sounds directly rather than through description would help, though. It could be done with a pre-recorded menu rather than sapi or screen reader support (I never had much luck getting either of those to work with java, but they can be done if absolutely necessary.).

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2013-04-15 20:32:11

Hi,
I've tried the game, and wow, this atmosphere is great. The fact that you don't really know what stuff is, in my opinion, sort of helps, although I seemed to get stuck on level 3 with an item and something blocking my way, in fact I moved around and couldn't seem to get to it at all, couldn't even hear a door or anything.

2013-04-15 21:30:23

I couldn't tell what the potions did, so I just pressed j on each one hen I was injurred and when I heard the haert beat sound get lower, I knew I had found the health potion. Also I couldn't find any spells except that rock throwing spell. Also I don't know whether armor is automatically equipped if it's better, same with weapons. There is no inventory category for them.

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2013-04-15 22:03:54

Hello!

As i am big fan of RPGs it's so great to see another aptemp in making audio RPG. I helped in the one game called entombed, probably the most bigger game currently in the audio gaming community, and i mean biggest audio RPG. I have great microphones to use, so i can help you with sound design, also, i can provide you with the music and voices. I hope game will be expanded a lot and i am definitely loving you for it, keep doing this so cool dude!

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2013-04-15 22:45:41

Hi jahed.

Just coming to this one, it's downloading now, thanks for the game it sounds great.

As a few pointers however on audio game design generally.

visually, most sighted people see by direct perception, ie, an object is instantly identifyable. The same is not true for sound, at least not for most sounds, thus a learn game sounds feature is pretty standard for most audio games especially the more complex ones.

I would also strongly suggest that if your game is intended as an adventure/rpg game, ie, one powered by at least some level of statistics, it might be wiser to rely upon speech to get things like accurate measures of character health and status, and that of items, especially if you are planning a game with heavy random number generation and a lot of   variety in it's items and attributes, indeed the more ffeatures and items and the  the more randomness, the better.

i will try the game properly now, but those are my initial thoughts.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2013-04-15 23:28:26

Hi.

1: Age range:

24-35.

2: Visual imparement status:

Legally blind, (registered blind in Uk but with some usable vision).

3: sound system.

Sterrio Headphones.

4: computer skills.

Intermediate. I use computers for many things and have for years, but i don't know programming beyond html formatting, (am admin of the audiogames.net site), but don't' know any complex programming languages.

5: Skill at games.

Advanced. Have been playing low vision accessible games since the age of 4 on atari 2600, still play low vision games on many systems, and now also work as admin for www.audiogames.net, reviewing, cataloguing and writing news about accessible games. I would say i've played every major accessible game ever released for windows and now several for Ios as well.


6: number of rounds.

one thus far but intend to play more, however I'm filling this in to give my initial thoughts, as I greatly hope the game will be expanded in the future.

7: difficulty.

the game was not particularly challenging accept by virtue of it's actual play, however there were design factors which needed to be grappled with rather than the intrinsic nature of the game itself which needlessly increased the difficulty factor.

8: most difficult.


Lack of sufficient navigation or informational aides contributed markedly to the difficulty.

9: decreasing difficulty.

while learning the game sounds removed much of the original confusion, much still remained which could be eased by a couple of additions in design.

10: further comments.

I really like the concept and idea for the game implicitely, as a randomly occurring generating dungeon is a great idea. however, in many ways I felt lack of sufficient basic information which could have been provided by text contributed rather too markedly to the game's difficulty. For instance, while the navigation and sound sources of water and fire were quite adequate, I would've much appreciated a basic direction facing command, or a command to speak your initial coordinates on a level so that you could more easily avoid visiting rooms you'd already explored. This beccame a more significant issue since it appeared that the beacon sounds for sound sources could be audible through walls, thus confusing the navigation aspect.

combat was relatively simple and I like the spells and staminer idea, however correctly identifying status of graded factors such as character health, weapon status etc was less helpfull without speech, although monsters and equipment were certainly well identifyable, as were the different sorts of spells, however lack of fine judgement in items or character health made judging tactical decisions more complex than it needed to be, and also would make other things such as different configurations of traps and monsters, different enemies or status affect conditions less identifyable if it is intended the game is to be advanced as I hope it is.

I would also have liked to see a little more ambient sound in the different rooms, both to distinguish different areas of the dungeon, and to offer additional audio atmosphere, indeed this might also be an area where text can help identifying different sorts of armour and weapons more exactly, eg, leather armor, hyde armor, bone armor, steel sword, iron sword, bronze sword etc, thus giving more a sense of place and over all ambience to the player, paticularly if such a text name generation system could be randomized to some extent. A similar random naming system might be used if sufficient ambient sound effects for rooms aren't available, eg hall of blood, hall of bones, narrow passage etc, with names spoken when the player enters different areas.

I really like the game, the random generation, the exploration factor, the frequency of monsters etc, and I distinctly think with some additions it could be an absolute classic, particularly if content is planned to expand in the future with more enemy and trap types, spells, items etc. however for any of that to happen some fundamentals need adding, in particular to give basic concepts like status and direction of travel a little more deffinition.

I don't say this to be harsh, but because I'd really love! to see this sort of game expanded. Audio rpgs are fairly thin on the ground, so to see what could potentially be an audio roguelike is a great opportunity and one I'd really love to see fully explored (pun distinctly intended).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2013-04-15 23:51:05 (edited by Niklas 2013-04-16 00:12:20)

Hi I've played one round as well and can confirm darks impressions. I will post the questionaire filled out later. I think if you add more navigation helpers and the ability to make side stepps it will be great and if it gets expanded even more. Maybe you could add a key mapper were we can decide wich key does wich action. I usualy move the characters in a game with the arrow keys. The controls  were a bit tricky for me at the beginning.
So, I send you the questionaire as an e-mail. And like I said there, the movement control could be seen as a challenge.

2013-04-16 09:23:20

Hi, I have the game and I hit enter on the run.bat file and nothing happens. I have java and The Open thing installed. So, I have know idea what is going on. May I ask why this is java based and not a general installer or not a .exe file to run like in swamp and other games?

2013-04-16 09:49:21

Its java-based because that was the programming language chosen.

2013-04-16 11:36:40

And java is also cross platform, thus why another reason why it was choosen.

2013-04-16 12:53:25

hi jahed, whn I try to louder the sound of the door, room, or telporter, why when I walk forward when the sund is louder why the sound quiet again?

going in to the wilds, collecting pokedex, and capturing them are my kind of thing,
training them, making them evolve, and generally making them stronger is my ultimate goal,
fighting other manamon tamers, winning the tournament, and fighting octoros are what these manamons like to do,
and ultimately, I become the master of mana!

2013-04-16 17:03:20

Hi,
To get around the dungeon, if you hear a door, keep going until you hear wind, or another sound, in a different direction. Then turn in that direction and you'll be facing the door. Then press j.

2013-04-17 15:33:03 (edited by Jahed 2013-04-17 15:35:59)

Sorry for the late reply, guys. I had a busy day yesterday. Thanks for all the feedback again. The project is due soon so I'll be putting some of this feedback (anonymously) into my final report.

Because of the interest, once my exams are over near the end of May, I'll trying getting my university's permission to make this open source so that I can work on it further, implement some of your recommendations and maybe even give the game a proper name!

hanif wrote:

may be you can add a look feature, for by pressing the ship plus E, S, F, and D. for example, teleporter, 12 feet.

I'm trying not to use speech in the game, but that sounds like what I've been trying with the radar. Maybe I could have radar upgrades on later levels to detect non-enemy objects. However, that may make the game too easy, it'll just mean instead of exploring, you'll mainly just be waiting for that signal.

Currently all non-enemy objects do make sounds when you're 3 squares away from them, maybe I should expand that range?

CAE_Jones wrote:

I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I like that the game doesn't talk. Most audio games are too verbose as it is.
Being able to learn the game sounds directly rather than through description would help, though. It could be done with a pre-recorded menu rather than sapi or screen reader support (I never had much luck getting either of those to work with java, but they can be done if absolutely necessary.).

That's exactly what I'm trying to aim for in terms of not relying on speech. I'll be adding a menu in the next release. Looks like it's an important requirement to fix the game's learning curve.

aaron wrote:

Hi,
I've tried the game, and wow, this atmosphere is great. The fact that you don't really know what stuff is, in my opinion, sort of helps, although I seemed to get stuck on level 3 with an item and something blocking my way, in fact I moved around and couldn't seem to get to it at all, couldn't even hear a door or anything.

Items by definition can't block your movement.

If it's not a sleeping enemy, it's likely a teleport blocking the opposite side. This is a known bug since previously teleports didn't use to block movement but I switched that recently without changing the teleport placement code. But in that case you should still hear and have access to the teleport and wind.

That's strange. If it's a common problem, I may need to update the logging so if it does happen, I'll have enough information to figure out the problem.

keyIsFull wrote:

I couldn't tell what the potions did, so I just pressed j on each one hen I was injurred and when I heard the haert beat sound get lower, I knew I had found the health potion. Also I couldn't find any spells except that rock throwing spell. Also I don't know whether armor is automatically equipped if it's better, same with weapons. There is no inventory category for them.

Weapons and armour, no matter which you pick up, is automatically worn. So it's more about learning to pick up the right one by listening to the pitch differences using 'O' to check your current armour and 'L' to check the armour on the floor.

Your old equipment isn't dropped down to prevent confusion like "is this my old armour? or am I somewhere new?". However, I'm still on the fence with that. Do you think it's better to drop your current armour and wear the new one? Or dispose the current one completely?

An armour and sword menu would be a bit redundant at the moment since the only difference is their strength and defence so if it's higher you'd just use that one, no need to switch between them.

In terms of not knowing how much each potion heals and which heals what (health or stamina), this will hopefully be fixed with a help menu explaining some of the sounds.

Dark wrote:

Hi jahed.

Just coming to this one, it's downloading now, thanks for the game it sounds great.

As a few pointers however on audio game design generally.

visually, most sighted people see by direct perception, ie, an object is instantly identifyable. The same is not true for sound, at least not for most sounds, thus a learn game sounds feature is pretty standard for most audio games especially the more complex ones.

I would also strongly suggest that if your game is intended as an adventure/rpg game, ie, one powered by at least some level of statistics, it might be wiser to rely upon speech to get things like accurate measures of character health and status, and that of items, especially if you are planning a game with heavy random number generation and a lot of   variety in it's items and attributes, indeed the more ffeatures and items and the  the more randomness, the better.

i will try the game properly now, but those are my initial thoughts.

Thanks for the pointers. That's a major problem I've been having with the game. With no speech, it's really hard to put in complex stats in the game without making it even more complicated. Since the aim is to not use speech, I'm pretty much stuck with it. However, that is one of the aims of the project, i.e. to discover the limitations. I might get around to adding speech and more stats later though after the project has been formally assessed.


Sean-Terry01 wrote:

Hi, I have the game and I hit enter on the run.bat file and nothing happens. I have java and The Open thing installed. So, I have know idea what is going on. May I ask why this is java based and not a general installer or not a .exe file to run like in swamp and other games?

Are you using Windows? I've ran the game using the BAT file in most Windows versions and they've worked fine. Are you using Java 7 (the latest version)?

I'm using Java because it's just what I'm comfortable with I guess. Swamp is a lot more complex than this game and the programmer is likely a lot more experienced. Also, this is not really a release build, it's more to get initial feedback like an alpha version, so I don't want to mess with people's computers outside the game's folder with installers and such.

hanif wrote:

hi jahed, whn I try to louder the sound of the door, room, or telporter, why when I walk forward when the sund is louder why the sound quiet again?

It depends where the sound is. Say there's a wall between you and the door, you'll need to go around that wall so you may end up moving further way but eventually closer.

@Dark again: Thanks for the in-depth feedback.

In terms of ambience, it was more of a limit with the sound files I found available, same with the floor and wall surfaces. I had plans for rock walls which you could break, lava floors etc. but couldn't find decent sounds for those features. Over time as I find more suitable sounds I'll be able to add to it.

Don't worry about being harsh, I prefer honesty over anything else.

2013-04-17 20:43:09

OK Jaheed and nice success in Your exams, also Your game is very interresting. But, I have a good idea. Audiogame sometimes must have a recorded voice for example, for world direction or game must also have learn game sounds option to know, what some of sounds means. I try help You with it.

Ja volim samo kafu sa Rakijom.

2013-04-18 02:25:24

Hi, I do have the latest version of Java installed. I am using windows 7 Home basic 64 bit.

2013-04-18 03:32:19

Sean-Terry01 wrote:

Hi, I do have the latest version of Java installed. I am using windows 7 Home basic 64 bit.

That's really strange then. I don't have a Home Basic installation to test on so the only other thing I can think of is if you have OpenAL installed. You can download it here:

http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/ … alinst.zip

2013-04-18 13:23:43

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't something weird about jarfiles in general. I haven't found any case of jarred games giving people anywhere near as much trouble as mine have.

I've heard that how one goes about extracting a jar that's been stored in a zip archive can sometimes break it. Copy/paste vs the Windows extraction wizard, and so on.
No idea if any of that is going on here; it could be something much simpler, for all I know.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2013-04-19 18:14:51

Hi,
Please help me. When I click run.bat, the game opens for a very short time, then closes again. Thanks.

2013-04-19 18:16:56

Probably an error message appears too briefly to catch. If you can run it from the command prompt, that'd make it easier to tell what's going on.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2013-04-19 19:51:24

what should I do to run it in the command prompt? I couldn't install open al, either since I can't use nvda with mouse.

2013-04-19 21:16:37

fatih wrote:

what should I do to run it in the command prompt? I couldn't install open al, either since I can't use nvda with mouse.

Which operating system and Java version are you using?

2013-04-19 21:49:49

Sorry, I've installed jave now and the game works.
thanks!

2013-04-20 04:28:29

Hi, I have the latest version of Java and the zip file that you linked me too. I installed that too, and am still having no luck in running the game. I have experimented with all 3 .bat files.