2021-04-29 15:22:08

Hi all. Gemini is a thing that is relatively new, started around 2018 or 2019. TL; DR, it's like the web, but smaller, more personal, and much, much more accessible. It's like Gopher, but larger in scope and ability, has an actual markup language, and has accessible browsers on all platforms.

## Terms

Gemini Protocol: The part of Gemini that is like HTTP. It's made into Gemini servers, and tells browsers and servers how to communicate.
Gemtext: The Markup language writers use to write Gemini pages. It's just like Markdown except for link structures, which are like:

=> gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/gemlog/index.gmi Index of the gemlog (see below)

or, if the linked file is in the same directory as the file you're working on:

=> index.gmi That same index file.

It also doesn't do images, italics, bold, underline, all that. Just paragraphs, block quotes, links, headings 1-3, and a few other things, like preformatted blocks, used for code example or Ascii art, which can be labeled for accessibility.

Gemlog: A blog of Gemini pages, with posts written in Gemtext, and all linked together in a blog.

GeminiSpace: The Gemini analog to the web, a linked together mass of the entirety of Gemini sites and pages.

Capsule: A Gemini website.

## Why use it?

You may then say "Well that Gemtext sounds restrictive, and Ascii art? I bet they have that all over the place!" I did too at first. And then you start reading the sites, particularly in accessible Gemini clients, and you realize how refreshing it is. You see, there are no ads, no frames, no need for a "skip to content" link because the content is the content, the whole page is pure text with barely anything in the way. There are no navigation bars, no need to look for that main landmark, none of that. You can easily just start reading down from the top of the page, and rather than getting a string of link after link after link, then images and images, you get the content. And what about those preformatted block things? Well, accessible clients allow you to skip the blocks in some clients, or just condense them down into one element in other cases, so they're not much of a hassle after all. And the restrictiveness of Gemtext is so that you don't have just another web, where people can just embed code or frames or ads into your reading experience.

## reading in Gemini

To access Gemini, you use a special client for it. They're like browsers, but keep you safely inside Gemini, rather than having you go from simple text on one page to the clutter of the web on the next. Accessible clients include:

GemiNaut for Windows

https://www.marmaladefoo.com/pages/geminaut

Elaho for iOS:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/elaho/id1514950389

and Arianne for Android:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta … &gl=US

## Writing in gemini

Okay, but how do we make content of our own? There are a few different ways. The easiest is to make a blog using

https://gemlog.blue/

Here, you make a simple account, then you can manage a Gemlog right from your browser. Another way is to sign up with a tilde provider, like tilde.pink or rawtext.club, which provides the ability to set up your own Gemlog, like mine. These are services that you use SSH to get into, and all you need is an SSH public key to give to them, and you can get in using that SSH key.

The harder way is to set up a Gemini server on your own public-Internet-facing machine or VPS, get a domain, and point it to that as well as the web server or whatever else you have going on.

More resources

Check out this awesome list of stuff for even more services, like a daily news feed, weather page, and tictacto game, all in Gemini!

https://github.com/kr1sp1n/awesome-gemini

And, when you're ready, my Gemlog is at:

gemini://tilde.pink/~devinprater/

Devin Prater
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2021-04-29 15:28:26

@1
This is interesting.

I'll take a look.

Best regards.

2021-04-29 15:53:37

Sounds really cool, but why would I want to use this?
I'm not at all saying it's bad, because it's actually really cool. But I'm just not sure what the point is exactly.

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2021-04-29 16:28:35

Mainly, accessibility, no tracking, personal touches to sites (just smaller sites and blogs like the old days of the web), and writing it's even better. No HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to deal with, because the stuff you write *is* the content, and however you present it is the presentation. It's just you, your writing, and a bit of markup along the way. So you don't need Wordpress, static site generators, or anything else really. Just using directories and linking files together with Gemtext is all it takes.

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2021-04-29 17:25:41

Thanks for describing that. Makes more sense now.
Really cool concept, I'll look into it.

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2021-04-29 17:58:04

I'm still confused on why anyone would want to use this. Yeah, no tracking, okay, appealing... but its extremely limited and doesn't allow for rich content.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-04-29 18:36:48

I'm not sure on this either. On the one hand it's better than Gopher. On the other, how useable, really, is it? I mean. I'd rather use a modern browser that strips out tracking, ads, etcetra but lets use the majority of the sites, vs a dedicated browser for a protocol that's lightweight, but extremely limited, but is  agood concept for a limited use case on paper

Warning: Grumpy post above
Also on Linux natively

Jace's EA PGA Tour guide for blind golfers

2021-04-29 19:18:51

Plus, you realize you don't have to have tracking and a ton of Javascript or whatever in your HTML, right? I honestly have no idea what the use case is for this. Cool that you dig it, but I don't get it. I mean, even the stuff with "the content is the content", that sounds catchy, but look at your explanation. I don't scroll through a page and get a bunch of links. OK, but what if I want to have a bunch of links? Like what if I'm writing about music, and it makes sense to have a separate page on left hand and right hand scales for keyboard, for example. Where do those links go? Or do I not get to have any? If I do, where do they go such that they're making my "content" an links-free textland of awesomeness?

Speaking of links, you realize you can turn off your screen reader's announcement of those, right? I guess if you're tabbing through the page you'll still land on individual links, but unless you're restricting links in Gemini to a links area, I don't see how you avoid this there. And if you restrict it to a links area, so your precious content is just "content", as though links weren't content, that just means I have to do extra stuff to get back to the links area to get to whatever link I want to visit next.

You may notice I'm talking about this very hypothetically. That's because in order to find out anything about it, I have to go find a new client, install it, figure out how it works, and then find out how to access some sort of Gemini pages or whatever they're called just to find out how it might work. I could do that, but I've got this perfectly useful web in front of me, where I just found this cool article on the harmonium.

https://www.themantle.com/arts-and-cult … -harmonium

Or this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBT9LP4Fbmo

Gemini got stuff like that? No? Too bad.

_____________________________
"rabbid dog  aggressive  attitude" since 3035. THE SYSTEM IS TRAP!

2021-04-29 19:35:16

@8, the other problem is that if you have a "links area" it eliminates context completely. If I read an article and then switch to a so-called "links area" I have no reference as to what the link is about in relation to the content of the article. That's why I rarely if ever use links elements lists unless I absolutely know what I'm searching for.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-04-29 20:59:54

Yeah I don't use links/elements lists at all. I think I used it once just to see what it does. But I don't see how it's any better or worse than doing find for something. Sort of like Gemini, I'm glad it's there for people who dig it. I just don't see the point myself. But I mean, that's me. I think it's really great that people are doing different things like Gemini or lists of links and elements, because if that does something for people and makes their lives easier, great.

_____________________________
"rabbid dog  aggressive  attitude" since 3035. THE SYSTEM IS TRAP!

2021-04-29 22:24:17

The thing about the links area is, that, you know... People like to label their links with the title "Here" or "Click here to view"
and that just won't work. Imagine scrolling through a list with items labeled as "Here."
There wouldn't be any way to know what you were clicking on.

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Matthew's Horse Needs Your Support!
Discord: misterkrabs69

2021-04-30 01:27:10

Y'all  people  out  there  haven't  even  tried  it.

It's  actually  pretty  cool.  It  acts  like  a  regular  website,  but  with  only  test  and  stuff.  I've  been  reading  blogs  on  that  thing  for  a  while.

I  say,  you  all  can't  try  anything  without  being  fucking  skeptical,  give  it  a  fucking  try  and  then  make  your  complaints  known.

2021-04-30 02:43:06

@12, its not that we "can't try anything without being skeptical". We're skeptical purely because this doesn't exactly sound very useful and more of something that'd be used by people who want nostalgia.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2021-04-30 04:31:13

If only there was a way to host html and gemtext on the same capsule, to allow certain pages to have richer content than is provided by Gemtext, but then again, what would be the point?
You can already do everything Gemtext does by creating your own website in HTML and using a browser or hosting provider that doesn't clutter the page with ads and shit.
I like that Gemtext is based on Markdown rather than being HTML or XML-Based, though.
Does Gemini and Gemtext have potential? Of course, but as of now I'm not sure what the point is.

#FreeTheCheese
"The most deadly poison of our times is indifference. And this happens, although the praise of God should know no limits. Let us strive, therefore, to praise Him to the greatest extent of our powers." - St. Maximilian Kolbe

2021-04-30 04:36:58

You know #12, I can see the point of the markdown being simpler and everything. It's just that I can also write simple HTML, and if I want to give it to somebody, I don't have to go "oh hey and before you can use it you have to go and get this other program". I write up text stuff with links in HTML all the time. My pages don't get anymore complicated than:

Here's some text. Check out this >a href="foo.mp3">awesome flute solo.</a> Here's some more text. Here's <a href="bar.mp3">another flute solo</a> illustrating blah.

I keep it super simple. If there was a simpler way to write stuff like that, it would be cool because then I wouldn't have to go and correct all of my typos. But I mean, again, you can write really simple HTML. It's not really that hard, and then you can hurl it into the gaping maw of any web browser, and have it just work.

_____________________________
"rabbid dog  aggressive  attitude" since 3035. THE SYSTEM IS TRAP!

2021-04-30 15:32:20

Hmm. Yeah, I'm kind of interested sure. I think the issue with leaving standards like this, though, is you need people with content. Which is hard to do if you have left the standard. Then again, having smaller things like this without the bloat of web technologies might be a nice change of pace. As per usual, I wonder how far you could push the standard.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2021-04-30 15:42:05 (edited by devinprater 2021-04-30 15:54:46)

I just love the simplicity of reading and writing it. Like, no bloat, no *way to make bloat*, nothing like that. I mean, there's almost no way for a Gemini capsule to be inaccessible. The only real way is for them to have everything in Ascii graphics form, and that's harder than just writing plain text. And with links, they're all on their own line, so no "here" thing because that'd look stupid on its own line, so that encourages people to be more descriptive with links, and to use them sparingly without cluttering up text. Another way to look at Gemini is an entire network of pages in reader mode, without the need for reader mode. That's what it reminds me of. A decluttered web. And if you try it, and find it lacking, that's fine. But having a way for people to read and write content so easily should be appreciated, and not sneared at by people who Gemini could help the most. With the web, we always have to go looking for the content amid headings and headings of other stuff, frames of ads, the occational popup, all that. And yes, some websites are better than others. But with Gemini, we're put on almost an equal footing. Can sighted people use Ascii graphics? Yes, and they use it in MUDs too, much more often, and sometimes in exclusion of plain text representations altogether, like with ASCI maps and drawings of enemies and such. With Gemini, I rarely have seen any Ascii graphic that is essential to the information on the site. Can it be a web app? No. But what it does, it does very well. Also, you can't just hand someone an HTML file and have them understand it. The have to have a web browser. The fact that one is included in every operating system is something we take for granted, but they don't, even now, just support HTTP. Many support FTP, HTTPS, and one supports IPFS. So, perhaps oneday, one will support Gemini as well. Besides that, if you hand someone a Gemini file, .gmi, they're more likely to be able to read it without prior knowledge of the Gemtext markup than if you handed someone an HTML file and they didn't understand HTML. smile Also, yeah, try it before you cynically knock it.

Devin Prater
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2021-04-30 20:30:30

geminaut complains about .net when it's installed, weee

meow meow.

2021-04-30 20:52:53 (edited by Jaseoffire 2021-04-30 20:55:57)

Heh. Yeah, it looks like it needs .net 5.0. Haven't tried this on my windows 10 machine yet. Just the windows 7 machine. Grabbing the new .net now, so long as it doesn't complain about needing something, we should be good...
Edit: oof. .net core as well. Ads might not be tracking me across the tiny web, but Microsoft sure is. LOL!!! And this is why I should probably switch to linux.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2021-04-30 21:02:04

Trying with it now.

meow meow.

2021-04-30 21:09:23

I mean, so far I've been having trouble getting geminaut to actually show me the contents of a page.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2021-05-01 05:00:32

Hello,

Just went and took a look at the Gemini Software.
I found it quite interesting but as I said earlier I don't really see much use for it other than nestalgia purposes. It is, however a neat little thing to explore and if I was bored I'd definitely mess around with this. It lacks a lot of features but as it was already said multiple times in this topic that was sort of the point.

Pretty interesting, and worth your time if you don't have much to do. Google Chrome is still better and has a lot more to offer though, haha.

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Matthew's Horse Needs Your Support!
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2021-05-03 14:41:29

Hi.
I want to host my own gemini server, but I can't set up agate.
Any help?

meow meow.

2021-05-03 16:10:47

oh, I did it, it's working.
gemini://ultraproductions.duckdns.org

meow meow.

2021-05-04 15:32:01

Someone has created a social network using Gemini.

gemini://station.martinrue.com/

Devin Prater
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