2019-10-30 04:08:30

Hey all,

Considering my recent successes in Dungeon Crawl Stone soup, i thought i'd branch out in to other roguelikes. ADOM came to mind. Tried the free version. It seem's kinda usable, at least when you're in a dungeon. Does anyone have any experience of the wilderness map? That one seems kinda daunting because you don't know where are the different locations, dungeons/settlements. Any help would be appreciated. On a side note, dcss0.24 is out, if anyone wants to play. We'll be looking forward to some very nice accessibility fixes in the near future.

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.

2019-10-30 04:26:43

I don't like the new ADOM's text overlay stuff, where targeting and prompts are interspersed with the map. Other than that, ADOM is very playable.
The wilderness map isn't too hard. All the locations are static -- it's the same from playthrough to playthrough, with the exception of 6 random dungeons that move around, but those 6 dungeons aren't necessary to the game story, so you cna look for them at your leisure. Unlike DCSS, ADOM makes its entire map fit in a typical 80-character screen width, so you never have to figure out if a feature is off screen. All the dungeons are asterisk symbols on the map, so you can just search for those. If you know how to obtain the screen position of your mouse cursor, you cna explore the map with your mouse (or use a screen find feature that moves the mouse to a target), then just move your character towards that point from where it is.
Remember that ADOM also has auto explore now, which I believe is bound to the 0 key.

Good luck battling the forces of chaos! I still have to get back in there and work on my gnomish archer.

Kai

Spill chuck you spots!

2019-10-30 05:54:39

What screen reader do you use to play adom? I tried it with nvda, but the thing is that i use the look around option to see what's where, and checking dungeon whereabouts tile by tile is just so slow that i just gave up. Is there a way of getting the entire map to the screen so i can look if there is a dungeon in my line of sight? And i love the game still, it's so neat that there isn't this just go to dungeon kill everything ascend up with a random object thing, you have objectives to fulfill.

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.

2019-10-30 06:14:09

does DCSS have a somewhat accessible version? The web client seems weird. is there something I should know? I've always wanted to get in to these games.

Much less active on this forum than in the past.

Check out my live streams: http://lerven.me
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2019-10-30 07:26:24

Liam. Dcss is very accessible indeed. Go to http://crawl.develz.org/ And download the stable version, or trunk as you see fit. Trunk is the dev build, sometimes its full of bugs and such at least they claim it, i didn't see game breaking ones. You need the console version for it to work properly. NVDA is my preferred screen reader, but it seem's to work with JAWS somewhat as well, i didn't experiment with it a lot, but it seems to. If you start the thing, you get a command line window which says the file path, ignore it and alt tab in and out till you see an application window. Then you can use the up and down arrows to move in the menu. Up to 0.23.2 it read as an audiogame would without any glitches, in the newest version it reads the welcoming message every time when you change menu item for some reason but it is just a minor annoiance, i don't care. Because after Hello, welcome to dungeon crawl stone soup 0.24.0 you still get the menu item spoken.
Some tips, first accessibility-wise: Use NVDA's object review mode, it is your main friend. Use a soundpack, it helps a great deal, if you require i'll upload my whole dcss folder with some accessibility configurations thrown in and a soundpack configured already. Though i'd need to obtain free permanent hosting if i want to maintain a more blind friendly dcss indefinitely other than dropbox. But i'll look into it, because dcss is one of the games which i play almost every day from 2015 or so. And it is such a great and accessible game, and roguelike on top. smile Note that i win games frekvently with melee brutes, and casters alike if i do not rush things, though my most recent game was a huge failure due to acid spitting oklob plant armies ambushing me in the easiest side branch. Damn RNG. smile Sorry, getting offtopic a little, i love dcss and can't stop rambling and rambling.
I'd like to finish with some questions: I did a tutorial on dcss back then, but i don't mind showing it off once more with the newest additions and the soundpack, if you wanna hear a demonstration just drop a line in this topic or if you want me to write a guide on playing if you're blind i'm up for that as well. My other question: would anyone hear me play dcss regularly? Thinking of starting a youtube channel dedicated to dcss if you're blind, showing off a tutorial game from beginning to possibly winning, then seeing where it goes. I kinda entertained this idea for a year now but i don't know if anyone's interested. Enough of dcss, and sorry once more.

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.

2019-10-30 09:40:34

Wow never played dcss with a soundpack and would love to try. I did some years back but couldn't get the sp working.

Where should I go to play adom?

2019-10-30 10:27:10

For downloading ADOM: https://www.adom.de

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.

2019-10-30 12:42:55

I had the same problem with Adom as most roguelikes, namely knowing where things are with text was a pane and the symbols were a bit small for me to see,  Adom is so complicated anyway with all the skills, the actions to perform, the quests performed at specific times etc.

I've heard good things about dungeon crawl but never got it working, so I'd be interested to hear if its possible without using the ascii text as I don't have a braille display, as I've said before, the only roguelike I've ever had success with is Angband, and that thanks to large graphic tyles and my remaining vision rather than inherent accessibility on the game's part.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-10-30 15:05:40 (edited by Xvordan 2019-10-30 17:34:27)

I've had the most success playing Nethack, SLASHEM (and its extended variant), ADOM, and DCSS while using JAWS. JAWS' free-form mouse cursor lets you explore the screen easily, and at least in my experience, it was a lot more comfortable than NVDA's review cursor.
Have you also tried Brogue Speak? That one doesn't need any screen reader to play, as they've incorporated eSpeak right into the package.

I do love ADOM's wilderness map and quests -- and in fact, it's for this reason that I wish ZAngband were workable, but it doesn't do cursor tracking at all, so your focus isn't on your character, it's hovering somewhere in neverland.


Kai

Spill chuck you spots!

2019-10-30 17:08:19

Yay, more roguelike chat. smile

YEah, my biggest problem is that the NVDA cursor doesn't behave in a way that is condusive to playing well. Jaws does better because its mouse cursor actually can track your position verticlaly as well as horizontally. I'm actually more a fan of playing these games on Linux, but that's obviously not for everyone.

I haven't looked at any of the games in a while, being on more of a 4X kick, but they are still definitely fun and a lot more accessible than the common reputation around here suggests.

2019-10-30 17:43:28 (edited by Dark 2019-10-30 17:44:09)

I can't speak of the Jaws curser, but with both Supernova and NVdA I always found the basic problem was that you couldn't get the damn thing to vertically read one symbol at a time, even with nethack and constantly hearing dash slash bar bar dash dash slash z slash d  didn't tell you much about where you are big_smile.

I tried brogspeak, but apart from the fact the resolution seemed to be a bit bonkers making the graphics unhelpful and that I always needed to quit the game with the windows task manager, I always had a miner issue telling what was where on a basic maze level, indeed I've noticed that every roguelike access fix always tends to concentrate on having the player auto move or auto target objects, without concentrating on giving the player any idea of actual screen regions or position of the basic walls etc that make up the dungeon the way even the simplest audiogame would.

What I mean is, if I'm in a 5 x 10 room witn a treasurechest, a magic fountain and exits on the north and east, or am in a corridor 3 tiles wide that branches to the north, I'd much rather the access fixes gave me that information and let me move, rather than just told me where the goblins etc were in my current range of site, since inevitably I'll always run out of targets at some point or not entirely clear on how to get from A to B successfully.

I'd love to see someone appproach a roguelike access by actually telling the players the type and size of each dungeon room they were in, EG corridor chamber etc, rather than just working on auto targeting.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2019-10-30 18:37:53

Brogue Speak does indeed let you explore the map. You can hit enter to activate explore mode, then arrow around to see tile by tile the environment. Make sure you're running the latest version of Brogue Speak, since a lot of quality-of-life enhancements were done there.

Kai

Spill chuck you spots!

2019-10-30 21:13:27 (edited by defender 2019-10-30 21:14:15)

Arnald, maybe Sync.com would work?
You can get 6GB for free if you use that link, and you get another GB by doing the tutorial which is very easy.  The web interface is good but not great (significantly better than dropbox) on all systems accept Safari, but their is a desktop app for Mac, Windows, Iphone, and Android, and they are all pretty good for accessibility.
It doesn't have traffic limits like DB, either, which is really nice.


As for virtual navigation when reading maps in these types of games, maybe the following addons could help?
Virtual Revision
and
Obj Pad
I know it's a bit clunky but, you can at least change the keystrokes to anything you want to make it somewhat more efficient.

2021-04-21 11:49:19

is there any new knowledge about this interesting game?

2021-04-22 14:30:33

seems ultimate adom will get native accesibility. Blind ryan says on twitter he is working with the team, so lets see where this go

Sorry for my english

2021-04-22 14:45:13

That's gonna be stuff to look for. What's ultimate ADOM though?

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.

2021-04-22 15:42:23

please, arnold, upload the soundpack to dcs.  I really want to play it, but finding a soundpack is complicated in addition to the necessary accessibility settings.  the brogue is really cool, but with espeak I can't play that for a long time.

once upon a time, a beautiful little girl who wore a beautiful red hood.  while she was passing through a forest, she was killed by Captain America.  The end...

2021-04-22 17:10:09

@arnold18 ultimate adom its a sequel from ancient domains of mistery

Sorry for my english

2021-04-23 03:45:30

#17, you can find the soundpack along with the game set up in my dcss tutorial in the articles room.

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.

2021-04-23 11:32:30

file not found

once upon a time, a beautiful little girl who wore a beautiful red hood.  while she was passing through a forest, she was killed by Captain America.  The end...

2021-04-23 11:39:05

Erm. Sorry. Try this? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ecEyQT … sp=sharing

Hail, Daughter of Hatred. Creator of Sanctuary. Hail...Lilith.