2021-02-11 22:05:23

valid point, presentation   could have used a little work, but the point  remains

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2021-02-11 22:06:46 (edited by defender 2021-02-11 22:07:59)

I mean this is just the kinda shit that happens when a group with allot of similar problems to deal with day to day but many widely differing experiences before joining the group gets so pushed aside by society that they need to develop their own, and all those little factions are interacting with each other on a micro scale.  It's all so much closer together and hard to avoid...  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was the same for many other communities that meet that criteria as well.

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2021-02-11 22:22:20

Ok, let me put it this way.  Bit NSFW but whatever.  I used to be involved in a large kink community covering most of the east coast of Florida.  The liberal consent-is-everything poly sort of people who are roughly exactly what you think.  They took rape accusations and other similar stuff very seriously, but handled them with less drama and angst than audiogames.net and all the blindness circles have on an average Tuesday.  That should tell you something.

I really think that somewhere along the way, whatever your normal idea of drama is got kind of skewed.

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2021-02-11 22:24:06

A few days ago, a couple friends and I logged onto alter to see if we could find a few people to play Jackbox games with.
Huge mistake.  I know!
Anyway, we hopped on the gossip channel and were swamped by a massive wave of negativity toward discord, jackbox games, and anything else that could be perceived as mainstream things sighted people might use.
Responses ranged from "I only use Teamtalk," to 'why would video streams matter to me?  I can't see Video?" as if sighted people don't even exist!
I primarily only interact with blind people online and sighted people off the internet, but sometimes I'm comfortable with those lines crossing for specific people, and I would rather the outsider (the sighted person) be most comfortable... yes, more comfortable than the blind people that might make up the majority of that interaction, which means I will use discord or another mainstream platform pretty much every time.
I think part of the toxicity toward sighted people has to do with the fact that a lot of isolated blind people only have limited interactions with sighted people, and those interactions tend to revolve around family members.
Interactions with family members are often difficult and stressful, even in healthy families, and considering most families aren't very healthy to begin with, undersocialized blind people might unconsciously associate sighted people with family and project their issues with their sighted family members onto everyone else.
That's not even considering how in some underdeveloped countries, blind people are extremely limited in what they can do, which means more bitterness toward sighted people from them.
these conclusions might be a bit of a stretch though.  thoughts?

I'm probably gonna get banned for this, but...

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2021-02-11 22:29:40

That you seem to think that blind people are only toxic to sighted people.

Look at this site for tons and tons of examples as to how that's not the case.

I'm sure the sorts of things you're mentioning are why people like Zarvox convince themselves they're fucked.  But the drama part?  That's totally equal opportunity.

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2021-02-11 22:42:15

@29, legit, the amount of bitterness some blind people have towards things percieved as sighted, example games, youtubers, etc is disgusting. I'll never forget the time on ROTU when a certain forum member said how mainstream games were shit, just because he couldn't play it, and he said he isn't gonna bother because its not his job. Even before I entered the blinkosphere, which is a word I invented, ahem, I noticed some blind people have this ridiculous bitterness to sighted people. I think schools and random assholes on the street have a contribution to be made

Who has any time for the letter h?

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2021-02-11 22:43:54

i never seen this kind of behavior, perhaps i do not open my eyes, or something else, well, if a game is not accessible, then why should i bother you no, not accessible, then i played with somebody or you no believe entirely and let other people enjoy.

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2021-02-11 22:44:20

post one, you know what you are not yourself when your hungry come and get some food.

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2021-02-11 22:44:48 (edited by Zarvox 2021-02-11 22:52:20)

I use to think that we could make a difference and change people's judgement, but I have learned we can't. And I lost all my hope from that point onward, and I don't have what it takes to deal with adult shit. Oh great, me using the word and too much. Basically, I have become mentally crippled and I am not strong enough to get up. So I just surrender. It's whatever. Life is just going to torture me anyway, so I might as well take its opportunity away. Comes at the cost of my life, but I'm ok with that. I can't respect myself because I'm blind, and I can't advocate for the blind because very few people give a shit. Plus that would be like strengthening my own enemy in a way, supporting blindness when I hate being blind. So screw it. I'd rather die happy knowing I made this choice than chase down extremely unequal opportunities just to get lucky, or just to end up looking worse for wear than when I started and I have less to be happy about.

I'm probably not making much sense in this post. Fuck English and my inability to use it affectively.

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2021-02-11 23:07:40

So stay on SSI or whatever and find something else that makes you happy.  No shame in that.  You could also get on randolph sheppard if you're in the U.S. or what have you.

If you look, you will find lots of nonjudgemental people.  Hell, you want to be a programmer last I heard.  Mostly people in CS land don't even bat an eye.  I've had new employees at work go weeks before they even find out I'm blind, though being remote helps with that.

You don't have to change the world or something.  That's not your job.  You can instead work to find your niche, and then just stay there.  That's what 99% of people do, it's what I'm trying to do myself, and it's a good source of happiness.

But if you do want to do more: I'm a programmer, I know lots of other programmers.  My brother is running a business renting dumpsters to people.  There's lots of other stuff out there.  No, the opportunities don't fall from the sky.  yes, they're ahrder to find.  But they do exist.

Also there was that day I asked my mom if she'd have put me through conversion therapy if I'd come out as gay in high school and the best she could give me was that we're not there now so why am I asking?  You should put this in perspective.  in terms of being judged--well, mostly people aren't disowned for being blind, but I know lots and lots of gay people who flat out don't talk to anyone in their family anymore.  A friend of mine became a sort of home in 2008 or so during the housing crisis for a bunch of gay men who lost their homes, because they couldn't go home to their families who'd already kicked them out in the past because of it.

Whatever hole you're in, you're going to stay there until you stop making blindness the center of your existence and wearing it like chains or something.  There are much, much worse things.  Knowing that can be a good coping mechanism for a few years until you become immune to it, but even if it's not there's no reason you can't eventually live on your own with a job or an apartment or whatever, have a few sighted friends, some hobbies, etc.  You're blind.  It sucks.  You can't do the things you could before.  But stop dwelling on it.  Your problem doesn't seem to be that blindness is hard.  Your problem seems to be that you sit in a room and just think about it all the time.  Explore the wonderful world of books, or the wonderful world of music, or the wonderful world of various crafts.  Program all day long.  There's *tons* of things that you *can* do, so focus on those instead.

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2021-02-11 23:30:26

as a person that used to be like the blind people described, I agree with cross or cheesewheel or whatever he's called. These people need to grow up before they damage their reputation further.
as for the discussion about blind-and sighted people relationships. I'd like to use myself as an example.
as a child i was between socializing and not having many friends. Some people treated me differently because of my blindness, teasing and bullying me about how i'd never amount to anything because of my disability. In the beginning of middle school I was invited to attend the school for the blind in washington but my mother was too over protective and I wasn't allowed to go.
because of the constent bullying i received in middle school I became more introverted, not speaking to anyone or going out of the house with the exception of school
in the summer of 2017 i was introduced to teamtalk. I was on the publick servers, i made some friends and some enemies. I tried to be like the stereotypical tt blindy, spamming, streaming loud music and just being an all around dick to everyone.
In 2019 i realized that A. i'm not going to get anywhere if i stay hanging out with the toxic communities so I left. After that my socialization skills slowly started to improve and while they are still not the best they are definitly better than in 2019.
Moral of the story. Not all of the blind people hang out on tt or the internet. And also people can get better if they want to try

When life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade. Make Life take the lemons back! get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons, What the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life‘s manager! Make Life rue the day it’ thought  it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I am the man who’s gonna burn your house down! with the lemons!

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2021-02-11 23:37:38

you probably dodged a bullet by avoiding schools for the blind, for what that's worth.  A very few of them are good.  The rest suck.  And being in a singularity of blind people is the opposite of helpful when it comes to developing social skills.

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2021-02-11 23:39:32

@37 The reason I was thinking about it was because apparently they had programs that taught you how to live more independently

When life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade. Make Life take the lemons back! get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons, What the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life‘s manager! Make Life rue the day it’ thought  it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I am the man who’s gonna burn your house down! with the lemons!

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2021-02-11 23:49:58

You can get all of that stuff in home.  You can get all of that stuff at 18.  Sounds like you're in Washington State yeah?  Reach out to Light House for the Blind.  I know there's one in Seattle.  If it needs to be paid for, connect with whatever the vocational rehab people are called and they'll probably pay for it no questions asked.  In practice, though, you probably don't need any of it if you're sufficiently motivated because you can get a lot of it just by trying to do things yourself.

Also if you are in Washington State there is that other thread where I offered to try to help people who are close enough to me out, and I did mean it, but you're maybe too young/inexperienced for that to be of use at this stage assuming you are close enough in the first place.

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2021-02-12 00:07:33

I'm talking with my state counselor about my resume and what I can do to improve it fo employment. I'm still here, so I'm doing soething. But it is such a slow process that I don't think it will ever go anywhere. I ask what I can do to speed it up, and they said nothing. But finally, the counselor that works with resumes and stuff contacted me today. So who knows. Maybe I'll get somewhere in a month. I'm at the point that I'm still goinng, but I'm having lots and lots of just end it all thoughts. And I have so many oppotunities to kill myself, but I haven't done it yet. I'm trying to detach my emotion from every single person and thing that is holding me back, but it isn't an easy task.

I'm probably not making much sense in this post. Fuck English and my inability to use it affectively.

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2021-02-12 00:32:53

@1, and 11 and, well, uh, every other post you may have made in this topic, because I've actually only gotten to 11, if you don't, and I quote, give a fuck, then what on earth was the point of this topic or any of your posts?
Seriously, this is perhaps the most childish load of suckage I've ever seen come off your account, which is saying something, considering what it is you're supposedly railing against.  I may not like so-called blindies and blinkies and what have you, but this right here?  This is what I correct my children for!  How on earth do you expect to prove anything to anyone when you're descending to a level lower than the one you're judging?  Whatever possessed you other than flat out discourteous and entirely useless, untamed anger?  Are you so desperate to trash your own reputation and burn as many bridges as you can within this and other communities?  Would you go to a sighted mainstream platform and behave this way yourself with them?  How in the name of any decency can you stand to read this entirely jejune opinionated refuse you post and think that somehow you're above it all?
No, I don't expect answers... I just wish you would honestly ask yourself those questions and inwardly reflect beyond the superficial tough-guy I don't give attitude, or go further than the "well the world sucks so screw you all" mindset.  Am I saying it's easy?  No!  It isn't!  That's why I, and others, will challenge you to surpass these hurtles of yours, whatever the wolves they may be!  You don't have to like it!  You don't have to agree with it!  For the love of all though, if you want to retain any credibility and gather to yourself some sense of respect, which I believe you do, do yourself a favor and just consider some of the people naysaying what you're saying and the reasons why!

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

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2021-02-12 00:37:23

post 10 and 11 are hilarious

No I am not a moderator, but I am the clone of one! So if you are bold enough to go against forum guidelines, I will close your topic, and hit you with a band, faster than a smoov gunner can reload his shotgun!

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2021-02-12 00:47:46

Nocturnus wrote:

Would you go to a sighted mainstream platform and behave this way yourself with them?

No, of course not, I don't have to. I apparently do here though because people wanna drag their bullshit around with them and fuck us all over.

Join me in eliminating BGT from the forum.
It's very easy, if you see a topic about BGT, simply don't reply to it.
If you're thinking about creating a topic about BGT, just don't.
Doing these things will cause all such topics to sink to oblivion.

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2021-02-12 00:53:35

@39 I am not in Washington. That’s just the closest school for the blind location. Oregon doesn’t have one

When life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade. Make Life take the lemons back! get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons, What the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life‘s manager! Make Life rue the day it’ thought  it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I am the man who’s gonna burn your house down! with the lemons!

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2021-02-12 01:12:54

Sighted people take years to get a job too, you know.  I don't know where you got this idea that you snap your fingers and a job materializes?  A month is really damn fast.  A month is really damn fast even for the sighted guy who wants to get a job at Mcdonalds right now given the pandemic, but also even somewhat fast in normal times without one.  Any high-paying career for a sighted person will take years.  I kind of think maybe your problem isn't blindness so much as it is that you're near or at the end of high school and getting slapped in the face by adult life which, again, happens to most sighted people too.

Untie your self-worth from a job though.  Tying your self-worth to a job doesn't work for sighted people and certainly doesn't work for us.  Yeah it's something to be proud of.  Absolutely be proud of it when it happens (yes, when: if you try for long enough you'll manage something).  But as soon as you tie your self-worth to a career you probably just failed at life.  It's a great way to get sucked into this sort of not happy or sad life where you're just always neutral, wake up and go to work at 9, cook dinner at 5:30, go to bed, do it again the next day for 30 or 50 or 70 years or however long without ever having strong or memorable experiences.

Suicidal thoughts are never fun.  I've been there and I will be there again because bipolar II is just like that sometimes.  But at the same time I'm pretty sure that you just need to find some perspective.  You can't perspective suicidal feelings away, but you sure can figure out whether or not you feel that way for real reasons or because you're brain is just like "I know, how about I fuck with you today", you're not in that bad of a situation, and if you can make that separation then one way of dealing with them is learning to sort of put them in the same box as "it's raining and that sucks".  You go on about your day and the days when it's not raining are way better, of course, but that doesn't mean the rain is going to just stop you from doing anything or that you're going to, I don't know, go dance in it and get struck by lightning.  Yes, I'm speaking from experience, and yes, this is a really weird coping mechanism, but back when I spent years undiagnosed/treated this is what I did and it let me function through at least a few days of literal crying from time to time by just sort of riding my body like a mecca or something, where yeah it's crying but we're going to program anyway or whatever.

Also insert all the platitudes here about how bla bla bla suicide is bad bla.  But you've probably heard all of those, so I won't bother repeating them because that's honestly kind of patronizing.  But I can't emphasize that it's final enough.  There are tons and tons of solutions to your problem, ranging from getting a job to getting a hobby to leaving home and randomly moving across the country to becoming a weed and sex hedonist.  Exhaust the solution space before letting suicidal thoughts take any sort of root, and trust me: the solution space to explore is waaaay bigger than you're currently letting it be.

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2021-02-12 01:32:03

Somehow I feel like his family are doing this to him. I feel like if he was away from them, he could find himself easier without any unneeded parental pressure. I mean yeah, his perspective is definitely warped, but who's isn't at that age.

Join me in eliminating BGT from the forum.
It's very easy, if you see a topic about BGT, simply don't reply to it.
If you're thinking about creating a topic about BGT, just don't.
Doing these things will cause all such topics to sink to oblivion.

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2021-02-12 01:40:04 (edited by matt1211 2021-02-12 01:58:47)

I do feel for people complaining about life here. I've been trying to get through college/find a job since I left high school at 19, and I am now 25 with no luck yet! I'm still trying for what it seems to be worth, but with no luck all there is to do is keep trying, or give up. I tried giving up for a year or so and it was aweful, so we're back at trying again.
About the attitude of people in games, I think my opinion is pretty much the same as everybody else; since people have already beaten their heads against this brick wall enough though, I'll refrain from injuring my own skull.

Prier practice and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

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2021-02-12 01:52:26

@47 that could be possible. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors

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2021-02-12 05:07:53

ok here is the honest truth, all layed out. My dad is great. He loves me a lot. And he wants to help me. But he doesn't know how to help me, and he doesn't even know how to help himself. Not only can he not manage 1 house, but he just bought another one. Originally I wanted to just go to community college in my city and not worry about employment. Not a bad decision. I would be doing something wise with my time. Yes mental health would still suck, but I wouldn't have to worry about anything. And I could ask my state counselor for living skills. But with the pandemic and other things, I ditched this plan.
I had decided I had had enough with my dad not knowing how to help, and not being able to help because he can't take care of his own shit.
Yes dad you can feed me at any time and take me to a place at any time. That's great, I appreciate that. But when you aren't here which is often, I don't have anything to eat, or if we do, I can't make it.
Another problem with him though, is he is hypocritical and double standard as fuck. Like we're talking, one day he says something, then the next he says something completely different. If I try to be independent, I never know if he will support it or guilt trip me by saying I stay at home and do nothing and I don't spend time with him. Problem is, he is gone most of the time, so I kind of can't spend time. And if I ask to spend time, which isn't often because I suck at that, he delays it and by that day it doesn't happen. Sometimes he says it isn't my fault that I can't spend time with hi, and other times he scolds me for it, or at least it feels that way.
But the thing that bothers me the absolute most is when he constantly says, I do things because I love you. That statement in itself isn't bad. it's true. He loves me a lot. But because of me not being able to drive or not knowing how to cook, I don't have an option but for him to do it for me. Unless I take ride share or go out to eat somewhere. Without going on a side tangent, I am able to without problem, but he will try to say that I don't trust him if I don't tell him where I went.
Back to the I do things because I love you thing. It makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. It's one thing to love your kid and be there for them. But it's another to provide for a blind kid who has no hope and no desire and no direction, and pass that off as love every 3 tasks or so. He doesn't knwo the difference between love and support is. The really confusing thing is, he knows what support is, but he still tries to pass it off as love. And I'm forced to say I love you back, like 30 times a day.
I'm fortunate to have a dad that will do things for me if I need it, but I'm fucked not having a dad that actually helps me. Doing things for me, isn't help. Again he doesn't know what help is.
So after ditching my good and safe plan, I decided to byte off more than I can chew, and that's where I'm at. Moving half way across the country, trying to arrive with employment already in place. I realize this is pretty extreme. But it's better than sitting at home wanting to kill myself. FInding employment is already extrmeley hard, but finding one before you move to that location, and getting accepted under these condtions, is even harder. On top of that, we are in a pandemic. So let's add that. There is so much shit to this, and no. I am probably not ready to handle all of itt as you can already tell from my hopelessness. But hey I can try right? Yes I'm an idiot. You don't have to say it. I'm a huge idiot for trying to do something like this. But whatever.
I love my dad a lot, but I can't live with him, and it's either sink or swim. If I do end up moving, I am going to needsupport for living and financial skills.

I'm probably not making much sense in this post. Fuck English and my inability to use it affectively.

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2021-02-12 05:45:15

You can probably work out e.g. soup in the microwave.  Unless dad is shutting you down hard, it should be possible for you to get some basic skills going on.  If you're able to say "when dad isn't around, I can't handle food", you're not ready to just jump across the country and hope.

Benefits plus a roommate can get you as far as being out though, no employment required.  But the roommate isn't optional and if you're a burden you won't keep one for long.  Now's a good time to try that however, because if you can get onto benefits then that puts you in the position of being in the half of the world with a stable income and "I can pay half the rent if you handle cooking" will go over particularly well at the moment.

If I were you, I'd get on benefits and handle the moving, then handle the employment.  In the U.S. that means SSI and Section 8 housing.  If you're not going to be doing something like programming, it is much easier to move first and then work out the job, especially since presumably you're going to be dealing with getting independent living skills via trial by fire.  Also college isn't off the table.  I believe even the U.S. does some sort of exception for scholarship money when determining your wages for benefit purposes, but it's been a while and I don't remember how that works.  SSI plus a scholarship to some community college somewhere might give you the resources to coast for a while and the social contact needed to make friends.

The key thing is that when it comes to vocational rehab stuff and all the general blindness services, they're considering eligibility based on where you live.  So if you don't live there yet you can't get ahead of it.  Your best bet is get a foot in the door then pry it open, if that makes sense.  "I will get a job then move across the country" is a huge ask, but "I will move across the country and be miserable but less miserable than I am now, then work on getting a job" is a much more reasonable one.

I've seen the family doesn't know what to do so they just do everything thing before.  It's sad.  When you're at the point of having a contingency plan, it might be time to try expressing these feelings.  Assuming you haven't already, of course, because I know that like half of humanity will just label it childish immaturity.

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