Agreed with Zakc.
Agreed with Zakc.
I'm not in support of this topic or the way this idea was handled. I've had a few days to think about it and will think about it more as time progresses, as I fully realize that this may be a kneejerk reaction to how things were done in the past, which is why I didn't want to post in here as soon as this topic showed up on my radar, but I feel like opening the door this wide introduces more problems than it solves. I appreciate the concept of transparency being showcased here, and yet I can't help but wonder if people are eventually going to start feeling like this was somewhat of a popularity contest in the end given the show of support that is being shown for certain individuals as it stands already.
These are just my concerns, so take them as you wil.
Good question. I think many forget that I'm not yet 18 myself, will be in about a month. Of course no one knew that at the time of my application, but it didn't really matter. We're looking at their reputation in the community and ability to perform the task which is ultimately all that matters here.
I do support Ironcross. Mainly because he has good points that the developers are looking at this community, and considering how the accessibility is picking up in the main stream, it is all the more important for us that we realize this, and put the best foot forward so the new and interested developers aren't turned off by our day to day operations.
As far as experience goes, I managed a company for about ten years with no major issues. I tend to look at both sides of the issue and sometimes plays Devil's Advocate just to force the other side to be more open about their position.
I've been a forum member since 2006 and have seen first-hand how this forum used to be.
I also have a wealth of management experience under my belt (even currently where I work) and have a drive for improving things.
My opinion on the situation:
Jill has no right to attack John no matter what she thinks of his projects. Constructive criticism is one thing, but the message outlined in the OP suggests this is a personal attack. On account of her history with the 90-day ban, I would most likely ban her for six months.
John is equally to blame in this situation by using excessive profanity, but I can understand that he might have been upset. On account of this, perhaps a warning (skipping the cautions) so that if this happens again, he'll get a seven-day ban. There's only so much pushing around one can take before they flip.
I view Juan's comment as passive aggressive ("John you can be whatever you are and it doesn't matter if I think it's wrong"), but on account of his language barrier I would issue a caution here. His seeming attack on John's identity wasn't called for and he could have just as well left that out and not lost the meaning to the rest of his post.
I've used Discord a few times a while ago and hope they've updated it's accessibility over time.
#31 (edited by Mayana 2020-08-02 01:54:06)
I am unsure about Ironcross, to be honest. There have been times in the past when he was overly brash and, at least seemingly, quick to anger. He has definitely improved a lot since the time of his bans, but still retains his blunt nature, which I admit often earns him thumbs ups from me as a member, but could maybe lead to some trouble, and would definitely give him some "haters", were he to become a mod.
However, he appears to be confident, very much not a pushover. As much as I hate the "We have to get tough on crime!" logic in politics, it's clear that this forum needs it. Currently we are in this in-between when there are more rules and moderation than there used to be, but bitching and trolling about that is left to smolder and then burn, until not only is there a forest fire, but a big chunk of the forest is gone, just so admins don't get accused of taking people's rights to start campfires away. Ironcross probably wouldn't care nearly as much about what the complainers think of him, allowing him to focus more on making this place a nice option for developers.
And also, with Ironcross on the mod team, Jayde would no doubt no longer be getting 99 % of the hate. So, if my vote had any value, which it does not, I would throw in my support.
TheEvilChocolateCookie (or ElizaBaez, which was her old name on this account) could perhaps be a decent option, if she has truly changed and outgrown the dumb things (hey, she called them that first!) she did. Her prior moderator experience is definitely a bonus. Also, if I recall she has previously expressed displeasure at the gender imbalance in the mod team, so this should help solve it. (Although I do hope she won't claim that as the reason why her application was rejected, if it is.)
However, if this is the person I'm thinking of, she did cause a fair bit of trouble to the moderation team of Survive The Wild some years ago, which does make me biased against her. She has not been up to anything of the sort recently, however, and has been a relatively helpful member of the community.
Regardless, I must admit that I'm not able to adequately assess her personality. These applications really should have included multiple scenarios, not just one. For now, I an neutral.
Manamon_player's chances of being accepted are ... not good, let's say. His application was rushed and did not properly follow instructions. For example, his reasons for wanting to be a mod -- being online a lot and not having caused a lot of trouble -- aren't quite enough. Post #16 might hint at him being slightly impatient. And while I am not allowed to discuss the problem, I think I'm allowed to say that I am not impressed with his solution.
He does make an attempt at helping a fellow user in #16, though that is made a bit more difficult by him suffering from the same problem as Juan. Karma isn't really a valid indicator of someone's helpfulness to the community -- I have gotten far more of it for writing opinionated posts in fiery topics than I have for offering hints and advice -- but for what it's worth, he does have 23. Least of all the candidates, but it is something.
I tried to be as objective as I could be considering my bias against him; after all, he has made several topics which I frankly think did not need to have been made. But there's no getting around the fact that he hasn't put in any effort into his application, and the moderation position requires a lot of that, every day. Perhaps he can try again in a couple years, but for now, he should enjoy the freedom of just being a regular member.
Edit: I didn't notice Munawar's application when writing this. I will edit this post with my (useless) thoughts about him in the morning. Right now, I need sleep.
If you'd like to talk about it, join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/code7
I've made a folder with puzzle tips: https://cloud.owncube.com/s/4Smo8cNC7qq6P7m
I was a dumb teenager for a while. No, I wouldn't go nuts and accuse people of unfair treatment. The dumb things are in the past. They say actions speak louder than words, and I want to do everything I can to improve that.
Give him some haters? What do you think Jayde is for?
In case it wasn't clear, the opinions shared by users here about candidates will in and of themselves not be what cause us to reject or accept someone, not unless an opinion or evidence presented somehow invalidates someone's candidacy in some way. Example, if it turned out that someone had hard evidence that candidate #9 was illegally forking and was passing stuff around under the radar just out of sight, I think that's worth knowing.
This is not a popularity contest. I believe that the most official way to make this stick will be internal criteria, where certain parts of the applications are given point values. Some will just be a pass/fail (did you provide us the info? if so, you get the points), while some of them will be on a grading scale. Between Carter, Aaron and myself, it should be easy enough to work out one or two new moderators. I can't state strongly enough that this is not a popularity contest. Even if seventy-eight of you come out in favour of someone, that doesn't mean they'll get in. It means we're very glad to hear from you and it's nice to see what the community at large seems to think, but that is not the only or even the largest criterion that's at play here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1
Um, why did that need the moderation tag? I'm just curious.
@Mayana, Agreed 150%. I'm pretty sure Manamon Player won't become a moderator, as he'''s also been knowwn to revive topics unnecessarly. I've seen 3 defining posts from him, but I've seen more posts from him saying agreed with post x. Also judging by said agreed with x post replies, it seems that Manamon Player is ok with cloning and so on, which is the exact thing a moderator is supposed to stamp out. So far I'd go for Ironcross, with the other two being more neutral. Munawar seems to generally be calm about things, minus the recent topic with Simba, and Evil chocolate cookie, seems to be away from some of the old topics i read. She seems more into helping out the Apple blind community in terms of accessibility.
Cross over the years has seem to calm a lot down. IIts also worth noting he's an admin on Bloodstorm, and he had to handle a pretty simular topic like the one outlined and he was fair, and cleaned it up iin a timely fashion.
The two people I'd like to see become moderators, will most likely never come back, and that's quite unfortunate. However I think these 3 are some pretty decent choices.
Eric Williams, First Prime Minister Of Trinidad and Tobago
Greetings to all. I would like to apply for the moderator position because I think it's time I give something back to this community. I've been a member of this forum since 2008 and I have some good memories about it. I received a lot of help, I did my best to help others and I can say this place became like a second home to me, it's the place where I come when I am bored, when I need help regarding my gaming hobby and where I feel most confortable discussing blindness related stuff. I have an optimistic view on life in general so this "downfall" in the forum's content, speciffically the many drama topics and flame wars haven't affected me in any way, I preffer to watch and not intervene when I have nothing constructive to say.
I have been an admin in some online games in the past, Speciffically Death Match, a new beginning, humans versus robots, Firefight and possibly others I can't remember right now. Sofar My relationships with the players were cordial and I believe I was seen as a fair and relaxed admin. I've never believed that my friends should be superior to other players, friendship ends where admin duties start, if a friend of mine were to make mistakes he would be treated in the same way as everyone. I have experience working in teams, I have contributed to several projects during my master studies where I would require to work with a team of around 10 people, all of them sighted. I like to treat everyone the same no matter their sexuality, religion, political inclinations or gender since these are personal things and it is my opinion that everyone should leave them behind when interacting in a public place just to have a safer and drama free environment. If the topic is games then talk about them and leave sexuality behind, you could be a female goblin with hairy ears and I couldn't care less.
One of my weaknesses is that I tend to leave things solve themselves out sometimes, I tend to let people find a solution for the discussion than intervening, You can say I am inclined to be light handed in administering punishments because I believe that everyone deserves a second chance.
I am available from 20 to 30 hours per week, this largely depends on what I am doing in real life at the moment. For me life will be always a priority over internet and over the forum so I can't guarantee a solid comitment if things change. All I can guarantee is that I will do my best to keep this place clean of spammers and drama free while I am online.
Sadly, I haven't found the time to learn discord yet simply because I had no interest in it till now. I would be willing to learn it though because I've heard many good things about it, It is one of my goals for this summer, a tutorial would be wellcome.
@Jill, you seem like you are criticizing a developper for no apparent reason and your post serves no purpose other than to start a flame war. For this, and for the fact that you had been banned before for personal attacks I give you a warning. If you keep arguing about John's work without any arguments and any evidence why you think it's not good you will receive a 6 months ban since this seems like an attempt to hide a personal attack under an unproven point to me.
@John: I understand that you think Jill has been criticising and arguing with you for no apparent reason than to make you jump but your post was unnecessary and uncalled for. If you think you are attacked for no reason please report the posts to the mods and let us decide. By attacking back you have only inflated an already huge enough war and for this you receive a warning for personal attacks.
@Juan, I understand you don't like this kind of posts and that you are trying to do a good thing by making the involved parties stop but you are not helping, you are just adding more fuel to the flame. If you see such posts again please report them and try to keep out of the discussion if you have nothing valuable to add to it.
I wanted to do this moderation thing for so long
I'm in favor of Munawar. I've talked with him several times off the forum, and I think he's got the perfect amount of moral fiber mixed with a no nonsense approach toward his encounters with people. I believe that he would make a fair moderator. I've also never seen him start trouble here, and I have seen him helping out from time to time.
I would like to note my concern for TheEvilChocolateCookie becoming a moderator. Right now, it isn't much past her past actions leaving a bad taste in my mouth, and that one incident where she railed against the staff for being sexist, which was an unfounded allegation. Though, to her credit, I haven't seen that type of behavior from her recently.
Please make sure I'm properly preserved!
JJ, it was probably because it was an official announcement
Or is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality
I as well believe that Ironcross and Munawar would make great moderators andor admins. Ironcross and Jayde would probably but heads quite a lot, but they would also probably ballence each other out. And Munawar, I have only once seen Munawar let his emotions get the better of him while posting, as well as the fact that he is very level headed, and I believe he would be a great mod. My opinion really doesn't count towards who becomes moderator or admin, but just thought I'd throw it out there.
I have been in this forum for quite a few years, although I am quite the most recent than others, and I do want to help this forum in anyway I could. But you see, English is my main issue here. And I never argued with anyone in this forum in the past.
I understand our opinions are not going to influence the choice of mods, but since we're having this discussion I agree with post 31. I've got nothing against ironcross, but I do remember several instances where he lost it in a way that a moderator really never should. Plus he can be a bit immature and antagonising at times, which again is fine but not really something that I think a moderator should be (although Liam is also like that sometimes and that didn't disqualify him). From what I remember Munawar has always seemed like a reasonable person, and he definitely has a reputation having been a well-known developer here for a long time.
#42 (edited by zakc93 2020-08-04 03:52:07)
Oh and @22 I did see that, but "there is no need for nominations" for me didn't translate into you're not supposed to talk about people who haven't applied. I still feel like post 4 was a bit strongly-worded against something which wasn't clear he didn't want from post 1, but he explains it better in post 4 so obviously it's established now.
#43 (edited by Ethin 2020-08-04 22:41:19)
I don't think assuming that what you say here doesn't matter at all is right because, in a way, it does. It doesn't completely influence the application process, and it doesn't influence the final outcome, but it does influence future moderator applicants should this little experiment be repeated in future and lets people know what to work on, in a way.
#44 (edited by jack 2020-08-12 02:28:45)
I am interested in applying for the moderator position. I strive to help wherever I can in other situations, and I would like to help moderate this forum as well. I would like to help this community thrive in a positive manner, especially considering we should ultimately be putting our best foot forward for not only the forum itself, but to make a good impression for the mainstream as well. While I don't have actual moderation experience, I do assist in managerial and maintenance tasks on a website in a professional setting, and do work effectively in teams. I pay significant attention to details as well, and am possess skills in getting a good idea of what someone might be saying especially if they are trying to beat around the bush. One weekness, if I let it get the better of me, is the often sarcastic/pointed delivery of some posts which can definitely be hard for some to interpret online. Rest assured, if posts are being made in a moderation capacity, they would be direct and to the point, without wiggle-room for anything to be misinterpreted.
I am online several hours throughout the morning, afternoon and evening, whether it be for work, classes potentially or browsing here on the forum. AS such, if something called my attention I would either get to it right away and get it done quickly, or note it and take care of it at my earliest convenience. If I am truly unavailable I would know when to let other mods know and would have a very good reason for it. Speaking of communication, I use Discord Canary, and am very familiar with it. I would have no problem using it for communications off-forum.
Now, for the situation:
While there are parts of Jill's message that are subject to interpretation, she most definitely had a personal attack in there, no question. John did as well because he did a bit more than respond in anger. Juan's kind of skirting the line but may hinder rather than help the situation if he continues, so he should probably just drop his case and report the posts, and let the mods handle it. As such, here's how I would respond to it officially.
Jill, regardless of whether or not you used John's gender identity as a slight against him,
"You created four different projects and all of them sucked. Maybe this would be a good time to realize this isn't a good fit for you.
This most definitely falls under rule 2 for personal attacks. Constructive criticism is one thing, but this is at best demotivational, and at worst downright damaging if indeed you were going after his gender identity as well with one of your other statements:
I mean, I'm only a girl so what the fuck do I know about gaming, right?"
In any case, since you have been banned before, you know better, so you're getting a warning.
***sidenote: It was not specified whether or not a year had passed since Jill's 90 day ban, so this is partially off the record: Alternate statement: In any case, since you have been banned before, you know better, so you're getting a warning that will expire in 180 days rather than 90.*** Back to the official post.
@John, consider this an official warning. The entirety of that post was a personal attack against Jill. It is understandable if you are angry, but calling her a waste of space around here is most definitely going too far, and has no place on the forum. Please do not make this escalate
any further. If you are angry at Jill for insulting you, you could have just reported it and left it alone.
Juan: I understand and appreciate that you are trying to help, however as a word of advice, if it seems like you are getting nowhere fast you are probably better off reporting both of the posts and letting us handle it from there.
Jill you got to learn to shut the fuck up because nobody cares that you hate John.
This is not a direct personal attack so this is not going on your record, but you were pretty close to the line there. I am giving you a caution, just be careful in the future. Being as you are getting understandably frustrated with both of them it can be easy to accidentally fly off the handle even if you mean well, so just remember in the future that sometimes the best thing to do is to report the posts and call it a day. There is no shame in not having the last word.
Hopefully that takes care of the situation. I am going to leave this thread open for now, but if we see any more drama we may have to close the topic **off the record: I would consult with the mod panel on Discord before going through with that, or if push came to shove, any bans needed to be engaged**.
Fantastically well worded Jack. I really hope that you can join the moderation team
Or is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality
#47 (edited by supremekiller 2020-08-07 16:52:46)
I would also vote for Jack becuase I have nevre seen him engaged in a personal attack or warned for anything.
I actually did consider applying for the position but I figured right now is not that time. I know right now some people still believe I am untrustworthy and that's perfectly fine. I understand, and right now I'm still trying to figure out life matters, and a game to maintain. With that being said, you have my vote for Jack. I personally know the guy and I believe he would be a good addition to the team, if anything were to happen with the website's administrators I know he along with Carter have some good web development skills
Feel free to check out my work and services.
I think Jack would be really good too. He helped me with a web site a while back, managing it and things. Not to mention he really seems to enjoy helping people.
@Jayde: I've submitted my application to you, in the form of a private message.