2020-07-09 17:14:04

I'm not really asking how to navigate the app. What I'm wondering is how you learn using it. When I tried it a couple years ago, it assumed I already knew some Spanish, and started showing me pictures and trying to get me to click on the <insert word here>. Which, while I do have enough vision to see that there are images laid out in a grid pattern, I can't really tell what those are. SO, how do you use this if you don't know a language, but also can't see the pictures to match with the words.

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2020-07-09 18:13:38

I've asked myself the exact same question. I live in germany and my mum wanted to learn English with Duolingo. But they just give you tasks, never explaining anything or even giving you vocabulary. She could only use the app with my help, and that can't be the point of such a program.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

2020-07-09 18:43:37

Actually, I've heard people reviewing Duolingo, and they've all said that it works best if you're using it more to practice along with another way to learn a language, which I find kinda dumb. I've enjoyed something like Babbel far more, though it does have a necessary subscription to unlock all its content. You may also enjoy Innovative Language Learning's podcasts on, well, language learning. I realize this may not directly be the answer you were looking for, but I've found it too difficult to learn a language with Duolingo from scratch. It was even starting to look very promising, and I did like the way it was gamified in By the way, have you guys read the tip sections for each module? They may help you out more. I've also found that alerts may even just pop up on screen about something, so maybe look out for those?
Also, if you tap on a word, not only will it say it alone, but you'll be able to find the meaning for it. The translation apparently only works if the word is highlighted in yellow, but if your screen reader can't announce those changes and you're using the iOS or Android app, tapping on each word individually generally works, as they're all separate elements for the screen reader.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2020-07-09 18:45:44

The thing is, there is a section within each lesson that gives you instruction and an overview of the content one is going to learn. but for the life of me I can't locate it consistently on laptop. Let alone on the mobile ap.

Currently trying to use it to be less of a gringo than I currently am. I know a majority of basic and intermediate Spanish, but oh god don't ask me to compose or speak a sentence.

And darn it, the stories distract me. Kind of want to do all of them, but feel as if I should charge through more of the modules, even if I know most of the vocabulary already.

The answer to your question is forum.audiogames.net/search

2020-07-09 19:19:38

Hi there,
@1: I have used Duolingo some time ago to learn Japanese. It was great for vocabulary training, i enjoied especially the part, where you were told a sentence and had to translate it.
I hated the Hiragana training though, as because my screenreader was reading it just fine, pairing symbols with romaji was just adding the same sounding things together.
I recommend switching to keyboard input instead of those buttons with words, which I guess you're referring to. Although the buttons are fully described now, it's a bit cheaty, because you don't need to recall what you want to type.

Also, when you're given a word to translate without any prior translation shown, that's a feature, not bug. There is just about a set of new words in each lesson, so it's not that hard.

However, except the vocabulary, Duolingo won't help you much. Yes, there are lesson overviews with some grammar, but they're usually quite shallow.
I have used Genki as mi primary learning resource, without it, I wouldn't understand a bit about Japanese grammar.
It's not like I was an expert now, but that's rather a problem of my perseverance than of the book. big_smile

I bet there are plenty of books for studying Spanish, just from series I already know there is Spanish with ease from Assimil or Modern Spanish grammar from modern grammars series. And there may be ever betterones to power your learning.

Best regards

Rastislav

2020-07-09 20:13:32

I am mainly using Duolingo for vocabulary. And in that department, it seems to do its job, with an almost endless list of lessons. I was lucky, having had knowledge of spanish before diving in to duolingo. There’s been a noticeable increase in my vocabulary and understanding since I started. There’s also a Podcast for intermediate Spanish speakers.

I would rather listen to someone who can actually play the harmonica than someone who somehow managed to lose seven of them. Me, 2019.

2020-07-09 20:47:09

I guess what I can say is that to me, it seemed like I was given the work to do without having first received the lesson if that makes sense.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
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2020-07-09 20:54:13

well, I am asking the same question to be honest, everyone been like screaming on the top of  their lung, "learn language? duolingo!"
but I just sit here, fiddleing with the app wondering how this app can teach you language.
for vocabs though, yes it's the right place.

2020-07-09 21:06:26

Actually, they don't show you pictures anymore. instead, during my Japanese lessons, there is a sentence, and I have to choose the options of words to complete it.

Also, the tip of using the keyboard is correct, it makes much more easier to do things with it, since navigating those buttons can take a while. Though you do need some help of the internet, since you won't possibly be familiar with everything which you can type on your keyboard.

Also, I just skip the match the pairs exercises, they do not force you to complete them. If you hit the skip button during those, you will hear the same sound as when you complete other exercises.

If you want the overview of what exactly you're going to learn in a particular lesson, read the tips. they do provide information there. for this, you must first click on the lesson, and then there will be two buttons there: Start, and Tip.

aside from that, I think once you complete all the skills of a course, it is up to you, the learner to advance your learning. because if you don't use your newly acquired lingual skills, you will forget them, and you would be back where you started.

2020-07-09 21:11:42

Well, I tried learning latin - yes, latin with duolingo. While in the beginning my enthusiasm dragged me along fast and steady, the thing soon angered the crap out of me. Heck, I wanna learn a language, not play a game! So yeah, currently my latin is on hold. Actually I found some other materials to read or listen, but in fact, what stops me the most is the lack of the most optimal resource - a good old book in braille. I'm a kind of guy, for whom all this digital/virtual/interactive stuff really doesn't cut. My interest in latin hasn't gone anywhere, so who knows - may be I continue with duolingo one day or simply try some other ways.

2020-07-09 21:17:42 (edited by colpick 2020-07-09 21:21:08)

I felt the same way. They start asking you for answers to questions before they've told you anything. The thing is there are two ways to answer: using the wordbank or the keyboard to just type stuff. At first you need to be using the wordbank. What you have to do is just guess from the list of possible answers, then gradually learn from your mistakes. For instance, they'll ask you what's the Spanish word for water. There'll be 3 choices. Just pick one and then find out what the right answer is if you got it wrong. Then they'll ask you what's the word for something else, and you guess again till you learn the 3 words. Then you just keep building it up like that. It's actually a really great way to learn the basics of a foreign language. The interactive nature of it makes it way better than just listening to recorded phrases and trying to memorise them. The tips button is there too, and it is helpful, but can be a bit jargonistic as is the way with grammar terminology. There's also the discuss button for each question. Almost always someone will have asked the same question that is confusing you, and someone else will have given the answer. Just play it like a quiz computer game, and it's pretty good fun.

2020-07-09 22:00:39

Where can I get Genki? I gather it's a payed service or book.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2020-07-09 22:43:00

One reason why it kind of falls off for me is just a lack of anyone to actually practice with.

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2020-07-10 00:55:03

Hello,
@12: Genki is a book, one of the most popular for learning Japanese. It's about Mary, a university student, who was studying Japanese in Arizona, and has travelled to Japan for international study. The first lesson is about her arriwing to the city, asking a guy what's the time, and briefly introducing herself. Each lesson is made in this style, with an introducing dialog in Japanese, romaji and also recorded by native speakers, followed by grammar part, where new grammar is explained, next there is a new vocabulary page, with newly introduced words and their writings and each lesson is ended with bunch of excercises to practice everything you've learned.
I have liked the way in which grammar was explained, there was theory plus some examples, what was great, especially in cases I wasn't sure, whether particular phrase was recognized correctly.
Speaking about ocr, the book was very nicely readable. Genki is primarily a textbook, so no colouring pictures, no wild characters. Finereader recognized it almost perfectly, just from time to time I had to fix romaji, but especially Japanese characters survived the recognition quite well.
Recordings are provided either in form of CDs, or mp3 files downloadable from Genki website (the second choice is significantly cheaper).

There are two books in the series, if I remember right, Genki I and genki II, there is also a workbook for each of them and a book for teachers, which can be useful, if you want to check the correct answers.

Though you can start simply with the main book, I think it can entertain you for quite some time.

You can purchase Genki from various places, including Amazon for example, with either digital or physical recordings (CD).
If you can't afford it, either because of lack of money or simply because you don't have access to payment services in your country, as I said before, the book is very popular, so you shouldn't have problems finding a scanned version on the Internet.
it should be even legal for us, for example in digital libraries for blind people there are also books available for download without any costs, the only difference is that on such services they're downloadable just for people with visual impairment, whereas on public sites, everyone can get them.
But that is not our problem, but problem of the provider. The provider leaves responsibility to its users, which are anonymous, so noone can prove them anything.
So in the result, we have freely available learning materials, and blind people are happy.
The bonus thing of such sites is, that you can download the same book scanned on various scanners. For example, on one page, there are about 10 versions of Genki I, each with different size, so they're most likely scanned independently.
Thus, if your primary version is badly recognized on some place, you can simply get another scan and compare the recognition results. It can really help in some situations.

@13: when speaking about Spanish, I think you have many choices. Spanish blind community is perhaps one of the biggest blind communities online, they have their own online forums and discussion places, where you can prractice as much as you wish. I would be surprised, if they didn't have Teamtalk servers as well, if you want rather spoken communication.
There are languages with much more complicated communities. For example, if I manage to build my Chinese to usable state, I will need some places to chat too. But I don't know, if the Chinese community even exists in first place, or better said, whether it's accessible from outside of the great firewall of China.
So yeah, I will need to deal with that, when the time comes. But for Spanish, it should be much simpler.

Best regards

Rastislav

2020-07-10 02:03:51

Duolingo uses a combination of spaced repetition, positive reinforcement, and some rote learning. These are proven methods to help someone acquire the basics of a language. Unfortunately, I found Duolingo is very slow in revealing context and relies on the user to go through the curriculum in a discovery-based methodology. In other words, guess and check until you have the word and context down. This may be useful in the beginning stages of learning vocabulary as others have said, but if you're serious about learning a language, I would recommend other methods perhaps coupled with Duolingo. I'm not disqualifying it quite yet.
When I learned Japanese, for example, I reached out to friends who were native speakers. And as cliche as it may sound, I had a motivator. I wanted to learn Japanese to understand Anime. Now, I can play Bokurano Daiboukenn games without translation, Shadow Rine, and of course, listen to Anime.
When I learned Mandarin, I wanted to walk into a Chinese restaurant and talk to some of the people there. That also motivated me to learn Korean. When I learned French, I thought, why not add a second Romance language to my skill set?
In my opinion, there are four kinds of people who learn a language: people who learn it as a hobby, people who learn it for professional reasons, people who are just interested in linguistics and enjoy the thrill of being able to speak to others in their language, and people who actually need it to communicate to others around them. Neither is better or worse. That is just a measurement by which people should take into consideration to determine dedication and level of fluency.

2020-07-10 02:33:14 (edited by Pineapple Pizza 2020-07-10 03:01:47)

Is there any way to completely switched to the keyboard on iOS instead of having to rely on the word bank the first time through a unit?

And as a side note, I would argue there is a fifth category of language learners. Admittedly, it’s much more rare than the others, but I think it’s important. Those who learn a language as part of a cultural reclamation.

I would rather listen to someone who can actually play the harmonica than someone who somehow managed to lose seven of them. Me, 2019.

2020-07-10 03:51:00

I would definitely be in the hobby category, but if I were to learn a language, I would go with Spanish as it would be more useful to me. Japanese definitely has a strong appeal though.

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2020-07-10 10:57:20

@an idiot, You may be able to use the web version to some degree of success, and being designed for PCs and Macs, it has more typing oriented exercises. Note that you may also run into some accessibility issues, so you'll have to weigh up your pros and cons.
@Rastislav , Thank you for the introduction of Genki. I will see if I can grab a version, though OCRing this doesn't sound too much fun, at least you've done well with it.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2020-07-10 13:22:28 (edited by Pineapple Pizza 2020-07-10 13:23:37)

@DJEPIC, I've used the web version before, but stopped because I was getting tired of the nvda using the english pronunciations of words. The phone actually switches languages, wile the computer doesn't, which got annoying. Thanks though.

I would rather listen to someone who can actually play the harmonica than someone who somehow managed to lose seven of them. Me, 2019.

2020-07-10 14:49:08

@an idiot, Ah yes, I forgot about that! Sometimes Duolingo web switches, but it's not enough, and definitely not as good as the iOS version. If you happen to have an Android, try Duolingo web with the AutoTTS app.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2020-07-10 19:20:33

@19:
I think perhaps the problem was that you didn't have the synth for your language.

I actually did one year of duolingo without the Japanese synth, and after a while, I seriously decided to find one because not only the lessons were getting harder, some of the advance words were not pronounced by my English synth.

I actually prefer the web version, mostly because of the typing. I just don't like typing on a touch screen, and it also cuts my speed in half.

2020-07-10 20:46:38

@Dark , Totally agreed! Dual Voice is my preferred now, and it reads like a charm!

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2020-07-10 21:25:30 (edited by Pineapple Pizza 2020-07-10 21:26:18)

@DJEPIC What is dual voice? Also I had a few different spanish synths, espeak, eloquence, and the windows language pack. Only espeak switched at all, and only on occasion. And I’m sorry, but espeak speaks spanish like it's tongue is loose and flapping around in it's mouth, at least that's how it sounds to me.

I would rather listen to someone who can actually play the harmonica than someone who somehow managed to lose seven of them. Me, 2019.

2020-07-10 21:28:45

@an idiot, Haha. Dual Voice is an NVDA add-on that uses the Windows OneCore voices, but the main advantage is that you can set up 2 different voices for 2 different events. The main use is to have a Latin-based voice for one, and a Japanese/Chinese voice for the other. This way, you can read English with an English voice, and the voice will automatically switch when non-Latin text is encountered. That's the most popular use anyway.

If you for whatever reason wish to contact me, the best way to do so is through Discord (Minionslayer#2980). You'll get the quickest response times, and by extension, a higher priority. I also sometimes post my thoughts (for the better or worse) over on Twitter at @Minionslayer2.

2020-07-10 21:50:58

So,
Is there a one core voice for japanese?