2020-06-23 13:17:41

please note: we gonna have nice discussion about clones and what actualy is a clone. So please don't turn this topic to flamewar etc. Admins, please control this topic and when it turned to a flamewar please do an action
hello
whats clone
a game witch uses stolen sounds
a game witch uses stolen source code

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2020-06-23 13:21:16

Hmm, I dont think using stolen sounds constitutes as a clone, but your second point stands.

There are also what I call mechanical clones, IE, games that use original source code, but have copy pasted mechanics. These aren't really bad, on a moral point of view, but just bad on a gamer's point of view.

Rebadged opened sourced games aren't clones people, so all the Zombie arena versions we saw aren't clones, but forks. Get it right guys.

Remember this and don't you forget it.
Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that occurs randomly.

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2020-06-23 13:32:26

@Jaidon, Yeah, like the dozens of Minecraft clones you can find these days. They don't use the same sounds, and many don't use the same visuals, but they have the same basic mechanics and functions that make them too close to Minecraft, while still not technically being one.

2020-06-23 14:07:51

at2
if using sources means using someone else's work, so why using sounds doesn't means this? what do you think

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2020-06-23 14:15:15

A clone, by the defination of the word clone, is a duplicate, or copy of something. While its bad to use other people's sounds, its not a duplicate of their games. Its not the same thing if you understand what I'm saying.

Remember this and don't you forget it.
Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that occurs randomly.

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2020-06-23 14:26:16

Technically an unauthorized fork isn't actually a clone by the common mainstream definition, but that's just how the terminology evolved in this community. A clone is a game that is mechanically the same or very similar to another game. A fork is an offshoot of a project that implements new or differing features than the original. An unauthorized fork is a fork of something where you don't have rights to the initial source code in the first place.

Sincerely,
Lucas.

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2020-06-23 20:00:10

I mean whatever right!
If people are enjoying the thing, then what can we do. It's democracy at it's best.

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2020-06-23 20:02:34 (edited by defender 2020-06-23 22:09:20)

A clone is when you take an existing game and you don't change anything at all in the code or sounds, then distribute or host it as if it were your own.
A ripoff/copycat/unauthorized fork is when you changed something about the game and without asking permission from the creator, claim it as your own work when it isn't.  Some of these have been changed so much that they now barely resemble the original game, but they still aren't legal or fare to the initial developer, especially if their is money involved.
A game which uses open source assets or code, or has permission from the developer could still be a clone or ripoff, but in this case it is legal.  The only issue here is when someone claims that their changes are large enough to call it a new game and in truth they are not, which is dishonest, but not actually harmful unless they are charging money for it.  However, it's okay to ask for reasonable amounts of money to keep a server running as long as the license allows it.
An original project which uses code or assets from other games is not a ripoff unless it uses a significant amount of them and has a very similar idea/playing style to those games.  Using stolen materials here and there is still wrong, but mistakes do happen and it's often hard to prove since many audio games use sounds from the same libraries.
An unreleased, closed Alpha or Beta of a game which uses stolen sounds or code is not a problem as long as the materials are fully removed before public launch.  We all need placeholders and examples to save time.


This is just how I have always seen it...

Buy the worlds greatest machine gun. It's about 50 inches in length, It's huge! & it can shoot really far, &, it's cheap!
Lets demonstrate this: stand still Thom...
Okay ma.aaa!
Oh! crap!

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2020-06-23 20:42:12

thanks everybody
I agree with at7 and mostly at8
i'd like to hear other peoples comments

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2020-06-24 06:40:20

It is absolutely fine if the codes are taken by the permission of the developers. But, stealing codes, ideas, and sounds   without a permission, are stolen, that's completely illegal. Cloning is nothing but theaving of original games, the ideas of developers. In the future, cloning of games may affect on a developers ability to make games. If this continues for a long time, there may be a time in which  audio games will be completely stopped.
SO, CLONING, HAS, TO, BE, STOPPED!

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2020-06-24 13:35:41

A clone is an exact copy. If its not an exact copy, then its not a clone

2020-06-24 13:49:17

So I'm not going to argue over weather or not playing clones is okay, but that mentality of "Just let people enjoy it is exactly the reason that new concepts take forever to appear in audiogames. Too many people are content to ride off nostalgia and make a game that is exactly like the one they played as a child or whatever, while only a few devs are actively coming up with things that we haven't seen. This does not mean adding fifty new weapons and changing sounds, Rather perhaps blending two genres or implementing some sort of mechanic that is completely new or uncommon. That's how you make something that is not like all the other projects out there.

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2020-06-24 14:23:19

@10, we are fast approaching that erra. You could even argue that time is now. One of the only good blind devs we have is tumni, but the rest have either   left or retired.

Remember this and don't you forget it.
Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that occurs randomly.

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2020-06-24 15:13:43

@13 Yeah. There are very rare Developers with some amazing creativity like, I think Arron Baker is quite creative. The amount of money he spent in getting the resources/sounds is a lot, and people still try to play with cracks. I think we should switch from BGT to something updated, cheating and cloning has increased a lot in here.

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2020-06-24 15:30:12

Hmm, I have my opinions about Aaron Baker, but I will say Manamon 1 was really the hight of BGT development, and possibly Sable, which isn't a game, but still hella impressive. Tube Sim and Park boss were also pretty cool. Hopefully in the future Nick Adamson will get the time to devote time to game development and we'll get that awesome city builder he was teasing. When that's released, great heavens it'll be awesome.

Remember this and don't you forget it.
Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that occurs randomly.

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2020-06-25 08:57:42

Hmm, what I hear is people did cheat a lot in Manamon1. For unlimited training points, One of my  friend also told me people are able to take there Mons above level 1 million though I don't know how much that true is. I don't wish to know about that cheat engine, nor I am interested in cheating.

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2020-06-29 02:33:37 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2020-06-29 02:35:30)

honestly, my top games for bgt development were bk3, and crazy party.
I tried the infamous constant battle and then came to know all of the other ones that had different weird stories but were essentially the same thing, they just changed names and a few items but you could argue they were clones, even if strategies varied you could definitely tell they were based out of the same code that has been shared since forever. Worse yet, they had stores just like battle constant. And the mechanics for admins were the same, even the creator of the games starts playing with people's sense of suspicion and feelings, its like the admins can do whatever they want, there is lots of favoritism, servers are terribly unstable and I cannot believe people put money in that kind of garbage. You go tell this truth to the long time players of these games and their answer is just as ridiculous: something like just enjoy life and let others enjoy it (when they are the main troublemakers and clearly do not have a life because they are online almost all the time), or you don't even know what you are talking about, or, you mmust be too lonely blah blah blah, just spoiled kids all over the place which makes the whole panorama really depressing. Yet they swear that its the best game ever even though its way unbalanced in all counts.

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2020-06-29 02:36:32

Its a common mistake that people make, but none of the BK games were made in BGT. Well, I can't confirm the first 2 games, but BK3 wasn't BGT.

Remember this and don't you forget it.
Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that occurs randomly.

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2020-06-29 05:25:08

MyDearWatson wrote:

I mean whatever right!
If people are enjoying the thing, then what can we do. It's democracy at it's best.

Comments like this are the exact reason people don't want to make games for this community. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but it's true

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2020-06-29 07:06:10

Jaidon Of the Caribbean wrote:

Its a common mistake that people make, but none of the BK games were made in BGT. Well, I can't confirm the first 2 games, but BK3 wasn't BGT.

you made me doubt now, but I think it was in fact bgt, but we will just have to see if nyachan answer this lol, its an excellent game regardless

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2020-06-29 13:28:20

lol I can play cp all day long

allow me to speak more,
katch me on twitter
if audio games play throughs  and tutorials fascinates you then,
katch me on YouTube

2020-06-29 17:46:56

@UltraLeetJ, Nah, I'm pretty sure it was HSP (Hot Soup Processor). I've seen it here and there for Japanese games; don't know why though.

2020-06-29 21:44:45 (edited by criticview 2020-06-29 21:49:02)

Cloned games are games that use most or all of a potentially stolen source,to then be claimed as the creators own production. Even if you change a few names, and what have you, it's still a clone. Unauthorised forks, are game derivatives that use, or are based on, sources that were not ment for the public eye.
The issue with both of those types of games is that, if you are just going to claim work from others as your own, your image suffers, and when you're not the one actually writing the code, you might leave unfixed bugs and or exploits on the table. I'm not saying that if you write the code yourself, you're not perfect, so issues and exploits or so could rise, but at least you'd know where to look for them if you see the results. Also, it's just not right on so many levels to steal stuff, if game code would be a car, would any cloner still be as willing to grab it for a joyride?
As was said before: sounds are a bit of a different matter, unless you can actually call yourself the official owner of certain libraries and what not, or when you use stuff from free sounds and or other free to use libraries. If you don't have the library, or don't use sounds from freesounds, but rather go and collect sounds from other games, as well as songs or anything else, you're landing in darker territory.

<- criticview
   aka
   akilor ->
https://www.foldingathome.org - lets fold covid to the afterlife!

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2020-07-01 05:29:48

DJEPIC wrote:

@UltraLeetJ, Nah, I'm pretty sure it was HSP (Hot Soup Processor). I've seen it here and there for Japanese games; don't know why though.

just read up a bit on it, and the language itself is from Japan so there lol
interesting find, thanks

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