2020-05-20 22:51:44

The arguing in this topic doesn't belong here. Take it else where. There is a topic in the site and forum feedback room currently discussing these matters. This topic is specifically for those who are in support to remaster crazy party's sound design. If you are not here to help, whether you agree with the idea or not, please leave. If you choose not to, I will just ignore the post. I don't care which side you are on, you aren't contributing to the topic. And I hope all the other supporters on this topic make the same decision to ignore as well. I will say it one last time. We don't know the outcome, unless there is an alternative outcome to have. If you want to fight, do it here:
https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/3462 … the-forum/

my life as an adult:
I either do nothing, or stress myself out. Those are the 2 things I know how to do.
I need serious help.

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2020-05-20 22:54:54

Sorry. The only reason I was replying here is because pretty much everybody feels that there is nothing else to contribute to the current topic. I won't be discussing this anymore though as whether this is true or not you are completely right. Good luck.

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2020-05-20 22:56:36

You have one point that I'll acknowledge. You would not be responsible for the issue that causes a game to be problematic in the first place. Obviously, copyrighted assets are not your fault, and a user should not be blamed if they report another user for breaking a rule.

What I'm saying is that I don't think you'd be reporting other games in good faith. You're not doing it because you actually care that game A broke rule 3; you'd be doing it because your game broke a rule and got called on it. Spin it how you want, but that's the behaviour I wanted to flag for other users.

The "loophole" in rule 3 is not a loophole, and it's not about me.

First, I've seen other admins besides myself nail copyright stuff that I didn't catch or didn't get to, so please don't make this about me and about my personal crusade. This is a forum protection issue, and I wasn't the only one to suggest rule 3. If you want the truth, I wasn't even the first, but once I realized the potential mess that could result if we didn't clean things up, I came on board with it. Stop the personal targeting. I'm loud, but that's because I'm one of the more vocal members of the staff team in the first place. I suspected I would be even when I came into the job in 2018.

Secondly, pretty much from the get-go, we've been of the opinion that while copyright is important, it's really not within our scope right now - especially not at the moment - to go plugging through all games to winnow out copyrighted assets. You really need to get a firm grasp on the concept of plausible deniability. This database is really big, and our admin base is really small, and the number of people who have used stuff they shouldn't have is probably bigger than any of us would care to admit. We have a responsibility to act on what we know, in my opinion, and to make reasonable efforts to stay abreast of what is breaking our rules. I do think this means a slow and systematic examination of the database, yes, so if you want to help, in the spirit of truly aiding us? Go for it. What it doesn't mean, however, is that when your chosen hobby-horse gets the spotlight, suddenly we're monstrous hypocrites for not axing seventy-seven games on the same day. If this even goes anywhere, it's going to take time, and we're going to be as fair and as gentle about it as we can be. Remember, throughout, that so far, the staff stance is actually to let CP slide; I don't personally agree with it, but I'm outvoted at the moment, so for now, none of you even have anything to worry about. Don't lose sight of that. The point is, however, that this is not a loophole. We've been operating on an "if we see it, we deal with it" basis, a reactionary platform, pretty much as long as I've known the forum. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

The TL.DR of my last post in particular is that if you're going to throw other games under the bus after arguing how we shouldn't take CP away from the forum, you're doing it in bad faith and I am not afraid to call it like it is. What I'm not doing is blaming people for bringing legit issues to us because they truly want the issue fixed; that, in fact, is laudable, and I hope you generally continue to do that.

I'm done here. This thread may as well be dead. Pragma has said no, so any sound dev seems pointless. This argument is circular, and I'm through justifying myself at this stage. Whatever will happen will happen. If you reply to my last points herein, I won't deign to respond unless a breach of rules is involved. Good day to you.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

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2020-05-21 00:32:23

I'm not one to argue. But if anything, this post did serve a purpose I think. OP, I'm glad you started this but not for the reasons one may think. It's a shame, really, since I know you were trying to do a good thing here.

2020-05-21 02:06:35

I'm posting this in both topics to further Jayde's point. I know I had a conflicted view on this before, but I think I understand things a bit more clearly now. Do you guys remember This topic about a game I made using the Sonus GDE? If you've got the time, go through all the sounds and listen to them. Each and every sound in that game is created by me. For the robot speaking, I wrote the text in Balabolka using Robosoft 2 and saved it as an ogg file, so technically I did create those sounds myself. My point behind this is that you really don't need to use the sounds that everyone else is using to make a good game. The fact that you don't have sound effects created in a studio and can't afford to obtain them legally should not affect your ability to make a good game. Crazy Party has no excuses, especially considering how the community was ready to pitch in and help make the game more legal. In fact, it seems as if only a loud-mouthed 10% of the current player base would actually stop playing the game if the sounds were changed. If I'm being honest with you, those people wouldn't be worth it, given how they're probably the same people who rage quit in the middle of a game just because they're not getting their way or because you're trying to talk to them, or they join other peoples games just to troll. Digressing, there was no reason why the sounds could not have been replaced. Quite honestly, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed that Pragma seemed to not care about the fact that this game could be banned from AGNet, and I'm especially disappointed that he said no even after people spent money to try to bring this project to life. At the end of the day, it's his game and he has full control over whatever he decides to do. Even so, I'm disappointed in him.

Signature start:
I don't mind if you disagree with my opinions, but if you're going to dismiss something I say, please explain why you don't agree with me. You don't have to, but it helps me understand you better. I don't like when I write out my thoughts about something and try to make people understand my opinions, only to be told I'm wrong and not be told why someone thinks that.

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2020-05-21 02:18:00

lol if everyone is reporting copyright materials then most of the modern audio games we have today shoud be on that list.  as many of those sounds were most likely extracted by illegal means.

Their is no such thing as a master.  One is never done learning, and those who claim to be a master at something are far from becoming one!!

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2020-05-21 02:51:57 (edited by defender 2020-05-21 03:48:52)

I only have a couple things to say.  As far as I'm concerned the project is over.  Sorry to the people that paid for sounds but to be fare, you should have gotten Pragma's blessing before that, which is exactly why I held off my self.  At least you can use all those cool sounds for something else if you want!
I'm proud of everyone that tried to step up though.  And I hope that in the future we might have the chance to help out for real.




1. Jade can't be blamed for the mistakes of the past.  He wasn't the one who let games with pirated sounds slide, and he can't be expected to recognize all of the stolen sounds by ear or have played every game in the database either.  Even if you disagree with the need for doing this, you can't forget that it wasn't just him that decided, it was the whole mod team, so blame them all equally.




2.  Pragma has multiple communities to think about, not just this one, and while we may be a large portion of the players, it's only a subsection of us that even felt this was necessary.  Even if he had agreed to doing a separate soundpack and having us do most of the work, the already almost insurmountable task of finding, editing, and retranslating all of those sounds would have been made doubly as hard by the requirement for them to sync up with the existing soundpack in time and volume.  Chances were already high that this project wouldn't be scene to it's conclusion anyway.




3.  Reporting CP to Nintendo (a famously petty company when it comes to copyright) just to prove a point is a fucked up thing to do to someone else's work and all the players who enjoy it, especially considering that person isn't making any money off of that work.  Seems like a good way to shoot your own community in the back while sacrificing a valuable part of it, for a reason that, a month down the line will probably ring pretty hollow in the justification department.

Buy the worlds greatest machine gun. It's about 50 inches in length, It's huge! & it can shoot really far, &, it's cheap!
Lets demonstrate this: stand still Thom...
Okay ma.aaa!
Oh! crap!

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2020-05-21 03:15:45

Thumbs up from me defender. However, to Zarvox, I believe that money isn't entirely wasted. You never  know when the library you bought might be useful in your future project. To be fair though he didn't complain about that in the firstplace. We are indeed a smaller section of the Crazy party's playerbase. Crazy party has existed for 37 betas before it was translated to English, which is about 2 years. Before that, people in French have enjoyed the game and gave feedback about it. Now that it is in English, even more translations were made. Arabic, Romanian, Spanish, Portuguese, all of these are important communities with probably their own local forums, so the loss if CP was removed from here would be very minimal in my opinion. I can't be disappointed at Pragma either. Why would I say goodbye to a bunch of contributors to satisfy one forum, when these contributors probably helped the game even before it was on that forum. It just seems disrespectful. Better to be told no right at the start than later on. Imagine if you have worked on the project, it was accepted and your sounds were a part of the game. However, after 4 months, you are told sorry, but the majority of our players don't really like the theme of your sounds. It would feel bad, the same way it would feel bad to people who have contributed sounds for probably 2 or more years.
Just to be 100 percent clear, I'm not only blaming Jayde for this, it just so happens that Jayde is the only member of the staff actively discussing this with us, so naturally he is getting more blame than anyone else, in addition to the fact he was the one who started pushing for the stricter enforcement of the rule, so people don't have anyone else to blame.

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2020-05-21 03:30:43 (edited by defender 2020-05-21 03:50:07)

Actually, Liam and Jade were pushing equally as hard for the change, and it was the community that brought this up again and pushed for things to be more consistent.
Jade could have done more moderating and less justifying his position it's true, but either way he was going to have to actually enforce the rules somehow.
The issue of games in the database wasn't addressed from the start, because I think that the mods felt that doing so would ruin any chance of changing things over time, and the community collectively agreed with that.  But eventually it was going to catch up with all of us...
Jade is a good punching bag because he makes him self punchable, and doesn't know when to stop.  But this is a shared responsibility, from the devs to the players to the mods, and has been since before the new regulations kicked in.
You wana be mad at someone?  Be mad at those who allowed these laws to pass in their current inconsistent form and those who couldn't be bothered to right a plane English version for the normies.

Buy the worlds greatest machine gun. It's about 50 inches in length, It's huge! & it can shoot really far, &, it's cheap!
Lets demonstrate this: stand still Thom...
Okay ma.aaa!
Oh! crap!

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2020-05-21 04:04:01

I am not complaining about the 30 dollars I spent because I am fortunate enough to have 30 dollars to spend and it not make a huge impact of my current savings. Also I won't complain that I have access to over 63000 non cracked sounds for a whole year, in which I also get to keep even after my subscription has expired. That site has so much for such a little price.

my life as an adult:
I either do nothing, or stress myself out. Those are the 2 things I know how to do.
I need serious help.

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2020-05-22 01:27:46

I can't find anywhere Pragma saying that he has other communities besides English. That is what some of us said on this topic, but not Pragma. And that is true, whether you feel it is a slap or not. Crazy party has a stable players base thanks to largely being translatable, not thanks to being on here. If nothing, the fact that updates are usually posted a few days later on here but yet people still immediately find out is a proof of that.

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2020-05-22 01:38:09

@Nidza, I'm sorry.
I meant to say ference.  Pragma, I'm sorry for failing to make the distinction

Remember this and don't you forget it.
Love is nothing more than a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that occurs randomly.

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2020-05-22 17:33:48

Hi.

I think that with initially presenting the game to this comunity thi forum has done it's purpose regarding the game. It brought the game to a bigger audience and extra skype groups, translations and other forums for other comunitys might have picked it up from here and went with it. So, technically speaking, Pragma can lean back and basically give two hoots about what we will do with the game, the playerbase is there and even if the game is not allowed to be published on here, it will reach all the players anyway, at least the AG archive will possibly always keep the latest copy around.

Greetings Moritz.

Er nahm sie dann ins Stoßgebet,
der Kirchturmpfal zum Himmel steht,
Der Wein geweiht, die Erde bebt.
Dem Herr seih nah im Stoßgebet

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