Seriously i’m getting tired of these topics.

I think all of the movies you mentioned are in itunes with audio description available. At least yes on the harry potter ones. Starwars though... You'll find all of them, but, no idea if all have audio description in itunes, you'll have to check.

Hi,
I won't continue talking with Jade about this, because it's kinda obvious that it's his prejudices that influence him now, rather than so called touted reason that was given back then, that being the safety of the ag.net website along with the forum.
Thank you at aaron and nidza07, you guys have it perfect, and nidza07 actually wrote out what I wanted to say, but decided not to, as I myself am rather tired of dealing with Liam's and Jades biases hidden behind a wale of the good for the website etc bullshit.

The moderators back then said, do not discuss the audiovault, I.E don't post news about it and so on, we agreed to it, and did not.
You closed down the topic for the vault along with the same stuff, alright to an extent.
You asked people to not post direct links to the audiovault, or any movies or shows that it has, Fare enough.
But when you come down on people for saying look it up on the audiovault, that is indeed going too far, just as bad as the filter was.
  Believe you me, As long as people ask for it, and are not aware of the vault, I will drop the name, won't link out of respect, but that is the best I can do. Take out your claws.
Aaron, as regards your second post, There can not be any DMCA issued what so ever against a website just because it's forums might have the name the piratebay for example.
If that were the case, 50% of the websites along with their  forums would not exist.
Linking might be a different thing, but if name dropping can get a website in trouble, I have yet to heare about it. it's just the biases coming through.
  post 23, shrug true, but some admins along with a  few handful of users are so against it, that it's not worth it (banging head against a wall) . as can be seen all over the forums. As long as they don't go overboard with it, I am willing to stay quiet, and toe the line.
24,
Its a good thing that Jade and Liam aren't the only administrators  on the staffing team. That is all.
  @Sovs,
That's the thing, I wouldn't have even bothered replying, there were no links at all.
Grryf

You folks evidently are ignoring or choosing to forget that intent matters.
If I want to find something, and you link me to someplace with pirated content, you are intending that I use said pirated content. You're not linking me to legit sources.
From a legal standpoint this can get you in trouble. Remember me mentioning plausible deniability? Go look up what that means and entails before you say another word.

And as far as talking about prejudices? I have no idea what you're on about. If you'd care to add some proof to your sorta-kinda-weaksauce character indictment, go for it. Until then, I'd ask that you just not bother.

In the meantime, if you respond to requests for media by pointing at the vault or at any other site that hosts pirated content, you're going to be processed under rule 3.

Yeah, fully agree with 23 and 32 here. I'm not going to say anything else because you guys have already said everything I've wanted to say. I have a lot of respect for Jayde both as a person and as a moderator, but right now it would seem as though the majority are in agreement that rule 3 is being taken way too far.

Long post ahead. Please stay with me in this. There might be a lot to unpack.
@GRyf:
I am not talking about DMCA, not automatically. I'm talking about a situation whereby someone, such as an advocate or even one of our indie devs, might see this and decide to possibly take it down more legal avenues. Or, ya know, they might just leave. Probably not very likely, each person checks their respective parts of the forum and for now, seems to leave it at that. But is it worth the risk? It only takes one.
I'm part of a website called Equestria Daily, and their comments say don't link to downloadable episodes. Link to streamable ones or unofficial content such as YOuTube, and they've got a few in that fandom who have the episodes up to stream and then, when it becomes available to purchase legally, they take it down, right then and there explaining to support the show.
That's quite a large fan-related website though, our forum is a lot smaller. But are we truly exempt? You might find something at the very end of this post that could be interesting.
@Jayde: I do apologize, once again, for calling you out in public like that, and I did not name my source because they specifically do not want to get involved with this at this time. But I've done a bit of thinking over the night.
I think part of the reason was if I went to the list and the only ones to respond were, say, you and Carter, I don't know how well it'd end for some of us. I'd get worried we'd just keep clashing over it. I'd end up causing stress for you guys and one or both might end up leaving, and I don't want that, not if I can help it. I could call on some other staff to get opinions from but again, I just don't see it ending well. Whereas if we approach the community about this there's a possibility of coming up with a compromise with everyone. It might take longer though, and doing that, could actually cause the same result, I do realize that. I took a huge risk. It could result in a slow burn... and then someone ends up leaving, not the result I'd want ideally, not at all. It's widely known I approach things slightly softer, but I'll come to that in a bit.
Then, after that thought trail, another trail happened and I came to a realization, something like this:
Going public means we can get more perspectives. We need a compromise but we also can't redact rule 3, not really. If we did that, where would we stop? If we go too far in one direction we reach a problem. We either go too soft or we go too strict and scare people away. Stay with me a sec.
Having a look at the other perspectives, I can see why Jayde said what he said. In summary, there's the addage that we're not going to be able to please everyone as admins and staff.
Essentially: I'm with the rest of the staff and I respect rule 3 but there must be some way we can do something without being too scary about it. Saying this, I also understand that we need to be foreceful sometimes, and I would add, I don't like saying it, I don't think anyone on the staff team necessarily likes saying that. It becomes a factor of, we've got to do our jobs as mods/admins. If we just left you all to it, who knows what would happen. I think there'd be so many arguments and who knows what else.
Look at some of my responses in previous topics. If someone asks about stuff I've often now taken the approach of asking if there's any international distributors, trying to subtly steer the conversation away. I do that because I don't want people to end up feeling hurt or stressed, not if I can help it. Otherwise I just envisage a situation of someone saying "let's use the vault" and someone else suddenly replies "why are you mentioning that"/"incert pages and pages of debate until finally someone goes over the edge"/" / I go to the staff list / and then, moderation I'm gonna close this topic because this went too far!" I'd rather end a debate peacefully, and I think if all of us on the staff team could, we would.
I've been following stuff like TorrentFreak long enough to realize that it's not worth the risk us linking to content. This topic isn't even necessarily about that. It's now trying to find the idea of context, again stay with me a sec.
I'd like everyone to do something (I have a feeling Jayde is probably going to say something to me about this but I'll go with that if/when it happens, but also hoping to not only appeal to his logic, but perhaps get some of you to understand more of his logic as well)
I, genuinely, do not think there's bias at play. Believe it or not, I used to think that around a year ago but then stuff changed. Then, I realized something last night. I had a huge, huge bombshell of a brainwave at the end of my thought trail.
Have any of you stopped to think that Jayde has asked us as admins to approach things like this... because this is how quite a lot of site admins on various places, might react to their communities doing similar things? How many of you have tried other forums in other fandoms?
Consider this: Look at some of your favourite other websites and fan forums for gaming and tv shows. What are their policies on content?
Give us some examples, are they all doing something similar or have there been different approaches?
You'll probably see a similar thing saying don't link to torrents etc, but also, some of the sites might say something different.
Perhaps if there's some differences, we might be able to then use some of that in our approach. Or, you might find that their approach might, just perhaps, be very similar to ours. After all, yes, it's true, we aren't the mainstream community. Yes, we're smaller. But think about this: we're publicly available on the internet. We're a forum.
I don't know what the situation is, in general on websites, in regards to people mentioning sites like, say, a certain pirate hangout, on other websites. I think sometimes some of them could be forceful with it. I've heard stories of mods on other sites banning people in a really strict way. I don't remember what sites in question, but I did read that once and was a bit shocked at how quick someone was banned for saying it, but there it was.
In the end, we're still a public forum.

didn't we already had a community discussion before this rule was implemented? Most of the community were against the rule being implemented at the time. So what was the point of that discussion if the admins didn't listen?

Aaron has every right in the world to disagree with me, as do any of the rest of you. Do it to your heart's content; I promise I won't get offended. I may think you're wrong, I may challenge and dismantle your arguments if you present them, but I don't take it personally if someone thinks I'm wrong.
Where I took issue with Aaron - and thanks for the apology, Aaron - is that it's generally accepted that people who are in a position of authority shouldn't squabble in public. We have an email list where Aaron could've come at me with both barrels blazing if he'd wanted to, and I wouldn't have batted an eye because it was being done in private. Doing what he did makes it seem like there is dissention in the ranks, and of course there is. It takes away from my potential credibility for no good reason. I would object to it no matter who was saying what, by the way, so this would have been equally wrong if Aaron were out front and I'd torpedoed him instead. I try very hard not to throw my fellow staff members under buses, because at the end of the day, we're working together here to try and make this forum a place worth visiting.

I personally do not see a need to compromise any further than what has already been done. Even within the forum, you still have private messages, and we can't and don't police those. We simply don't want you to point folks at sites where illegal content is being hosted or can be very easily accessed. At the end of the day, this is the only reason we need; we don't want it done, so it won't be done in public. Any points you might make about risk are moot. Any points you might make about inaccessibility of certain shows, also moot. If we were a media-based forum, then we'd be having a different discussion, but we're not. We decided several months ago to distance ourselves as much as reasonably possible from the illegal distribution of copyrighted information. This means you can't post certain links and you can't sidestep rule 3. This is, at least at this time, non-negotiable in my eyes. I'm sure that pushes some of you into a rage, or makes you think I'm being dictatorial, especially given that Aaron is considerably softer on this than I am.

So here's a little bit about me that may help you understand some stuff, and might dispel some of your halfhearted attempts at smearing my character.
I have definitely partaken of illegal content from time to time. I won't say what, where or when, but yes, I've done it. I've said multiple times that on a moral level, I largely don't object to it as long as the source isn't truly being hurt (i.e., I strongly object morally to people ripping off indy devs or audiogame devs, but I don't worry so much about taking ten bucks from a million-dollar media creator or billion-dollar industry). Emotionally speaking, I don't mind a lot of this stuff half as much as some of you think I do. So you know that stuff regarding my "personal vendetta"? Nope. Stuff it.
Now here's the bit you ought to pay attention to. When deciding what is right and wrong for the forum at large, I am not emotional. I'm rational. This means that if one path means virtually zero risk, and the other path means, say, 3% risk, I'm going to advocate for the 0 risk path because the harm of users being annoyed is offset by the fact that the forum will be kept safe and will not be associated with the unthrottled sharing of copyrighted content. The worst that will happen by maintaining this stance is that some users will keep pushing the rules, or a few users may leave; if they leave, that's their choice, and if they push the rules, they'll be dealt with. Acceptable and tolerable losses, in my assessment. I cannot and will not let my emotions make this decision, and that is where Aaron and I are fundamentally different.
Some of you see my unyielding façade and think I'm cold. In this context, I'm okay with that, because most of you don't know me. I like many of you, I dislike a few of you, but those things, too, can't impact decisions I make. If some of you think I'm heartless or stubborn on this topic, I can tolerate that; your accusations amuse me a little, if I'm being wholly honest, but they don't hurt me and they won't cause me to change what I do or how I do it.
Put another way, I care about you as individuals, and I don't want to see you hurt, taken advantage of or otherwise come to any grief. I have a huge heart, believe it or not. But my primary job here is to make sure the forum runs smoothly, and sometimes that means maintaining a stance that really pisses some of you off for the greater good of the forum. I don't enjoy this, but I will continue to do it because it is the right thing to do. Whether two of you, or eight of you, or forty-three of you, want your free content is irrelevant; a few hundred years ago, millions thought the earth was flat, and they were wrong.

At the end of the day, none of you are actually being hurt by the implementation of rule 3. Rule 3 does not actually ask much of you. Please stop pushing it and testing it to see how far it stretches, because generally, it doesn't, and that's by design. Need I remind you that thus far, the only people who have received warnings are people who provided links, and that all others have only received cautions? Just consider that for a moment.

All i'm saying is, there's nothing rong with the audiovault as far as I can see. I'm OK with PMS on the pirate bay, and dark web and all that, but the audiovault, bottom line is, if people want to use Itunes, they can use it. if people want to use the audiovault, and they are less fortunate, they can. it's simple, it's not like nobody won't be using Itunes and netflix, intent does matter yes, not all the blind will use Itunes, and not all of the blind will use the audiovault, we, nead to at least, learn to fight for something. roms, torrents, cracked software, PMS. audiovault, as far as I can see, if you really look on the homepage, really doesn't wana take owners out of there content, so please, yall nead to stop holding this down.

The vault says it's not trying to deprive people of income.
Except that in many cases that's precisely what it's doing. Folks who have a choice between the vault or paying for stuff, and who do have the money to make that choice, may still choose the vault because it's free, resulting in lost income.
If I call someone an idiot, and then say I wasn't trying to insult them, that doesn't make any sense. Seriously, Juan, just consider what you're saying a little better before you speak. Words have meanings.

I do use the audio vault, but I don't point people to it because I know about the arguments it causes

TheGreatCarver, that's what I'm trying to tell him, but Jayde looks like he's only thinking about legal and non legal. I watch netflix when my cousin comes over, and that's legal and that's because he's fortunate and he said when he's here, I can use it.
So when he's not I use the audiovault.
Look man, I'm not supporting piracy on this one, i'm just really, at least against this part of the rule. And I will say this, and i'll keep my word on this, it's OK for mee when roms and torrents and cracked software to PM. well for torrents, I'll make sure they're legal before I post, don't worry. But for AV, I will stic by this.