2019-09-11 05:41:36 (edited by Dark 2019-09-11 06:02:15)

I'm still having all the troubles with steam I mentioend in the previous toppic, however since I've got sequence storm working very well, I thought I'd try buying a blind legend, as I think I'd prefer pc controls to the Ios swiping, however the download is being bloody stupid.

I used the link to download from website and got the "steam bootstrapper" window with lots of numbers, 409 megabites, 600000.302 , and something about 2 mbs (at least unlike most of the text on this shitty client that window displays consistently).

I recall in Pitermach's guide it states that games take a while to download, and given the time factor I left the thing running  for a good solid five hours (intended to be over night bbut I didn't sleep that long).

I restarted my computer, because I could not find the text saying "A blind legend" on the main steam client window on the desktop even using ocr, and there were no files for the game in the steam common folder where Sequence storm is.
However, I restart my computer, I finally find the game name a blind legend to click on (actually I could only read the end of the word legend).

And that say download bootstrapper window opens. So apparently despite being run for five sodding hours, the game hasnt' downloaded!

As I said I know why this thing is called steam! because it makes people blow their tops, however I would like to actually play the game.
Is there a way of checking download progress? or better still a way of actually downloading the game properly, hell if I could've just downloaded a standard setup I'd have been playing the game in roughly thirty seconds.

Is there some  confirmation button I need to hit that it was waiting for? I didn't think so once I'd hit the download link from the website, but I might be wrong, as I said Valve's total unconcern for screen reader compatibility is shown by how inconsistent the client's display is.

Still since unfortunately a lot of developers are using this shitty syste (god knows why), I'd like to be at least able to download and play games with it.

I thought I'd worked things out after I got sequence storm working, but as I said, steam is a bastard!

Edit: okay I have discovered something, if I leave the Steam desktop window open in the background behind that bootstrap thing, if I click on "A blind legend" the bootstrap window refreshes, and that sign saying 600000/302 mb changes to smaller values such as 600000/250 mb.


I am not sure if this refers to download speed or progress, though I am guessing the game is not actually 600 tb in size, though the speed does not seem commensurate with 250 mbs, or the other 2.13 ss which shows further down the page, assuming , 409 Mb was the file size.

I wonder if this was a simple problem of needing to keep the desktop window open as well as the bootstrap window, though if so this seems a little strange for a client that can't even be shut down.

At least though something is obviously happening, so hopefully the game will download eventually!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-09-11 06:14:05

Dark, I sent you A PM.

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2019-09-11 06:18:41

@dark, the numbers that NVDA detects when you want to install the game is the disc space required for the game to be downloaded to your system and steam needs to allocate it. to check the progress of the download, you can do it via the system tray that says steam and then NVDA will say downloading, your connection speed, and the percentage.

when the shrine is in chaos,
a pack of unusual wolves will save it,
they go to different worlds, collect rubies, fighting various creatures and learning new and unusual abilities,
I am the kurtwolf cubscout! with all the rubies the world will soon back to it's normal form!

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2019-09-11 06:33:04

Moderation:
I'd like to make something clear. We take a harsh stance towards anyone trying to pirate audio games especially. What people do in private messages is their own business until it is brought to our attention. We as forum staff are not about to start reading your PM's, but when a PM is forwarded to us we take it seriously.
Especially when a PM directly offers to give another user a crack for an audio game.
juan reina you will be receiving a warning. I would think very carefully about your future conduct on this forum as you know the rules.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my space bar. Prepare to die!

http://l-works.net

2019-09-11 06:42:52

Hi hanif, in the notification area  the button just says "steam" with no numbers next to it unfortunately, I did check.
Does this mean this shitty program isn't actually downloading my game at all despite the numbers changing on the window?

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-09-11 08:52:40

Okay its officially been going now for  another three hours, which means its been running for six hours in total and still no game! honestly it'd be quicker and easier to download on a dile up connection than use this useless shoddily designed  piece of total complete and utter shite!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-09-11 09:12:44 (edited by targor 2019-09-11 09:13:20)

From the bootstrapper window I always have to click the next button first before download begins. Then the window closes and the download works normally.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

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2019-09-11 10:34:02

@dark, before steam begin to download the game, did you keep pressing enter at the screen that says disc space required and such?

when the shrine is in chaos,
a pack of unusual wolves will save it,
they go to different worlds, collect rubies, fighting various creatures and learning new and unusual abilities,
I am the kurtwolf cubscout! with all the rubies the world will soon back to it's normal form!

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2019-09-11 14:51:32

Hi,
@Dark I am not sure what the Steam bootstrapper is, I haven't come across that.
the difference between steam and a regular installer is you actually do not need to keep that window open, but you have to go through it until it says finish. Clicking finish will mean that the game will download in the background, and the system tray should show Steam, the download speed and the percentage from that point. If it says Steam and nothing, then it means that the game might be downloaded already.

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2019-09-11 16:42:38

I saw no finish or next buttons.
I click on "play now" on the steam website,or on the name in the crappy window, and another window opens with the name a blind legend and all the numbers called steam bootstrapper, there are no buttons on that window from what I can gather.
Since however I'm going to now be away for a while it'll have to wait, I was just hoping for something nice and short to play last night.
I have  sincerely tried my best with steam, and I did run sequence storm, but it seems whenever I try to do anything symple the utter shoddiness of this interface and its complete lack of cooperation with screen readers just makes it ten times as hard, particularly because  Valve don't give a crap about improving their shitty product, they just sit there and force everyone else to pay them whilst doing fuck all!
its a shame so   many decent developers are  using this piece of crap!

I'll try again  when I'm back  at my desktop this weekend I suppose.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-09-11 16:53:02

Games do not take long to download at all. I downloaded GTA V, which is something like 60GB in just under 3 hours. Smaller games download immediately. It will pump them as fast as your net can pull down.

I'm the captain of this ship,
don't worry about the little clicks,
Everything is working fine,
nevermind that audible whine.

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2019-09-11 21:02:45 (edited by Chris 2019-09-11 21:07:01)

I completely agree with Dark in post 10. Has anyone reached out to the developer(s) of Blind Legend to see if the game could be sold on the website? If Valve is unwilling to improve the accessibility of the Steam system, I say we move on. I never liked the idea of Steam because they're big on promoting DRM, central control, etc. Why not pay the devs directly? I bet you Valve takes a cut of all game sales which is especially bad for smaller devs.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.
You may access my NVDA Remote, Three-D Velocity, Sound RTS, and Road to Rage servers by using the address christopherw.me. Road to Rage uses the default 6789 port.

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2019-09-11 21:12:03

Yes, Valve takes a cut, and this is no secret. Valve has to live from something too. Oh and accessibilitywise I really can't complain. The website, where you can buy your games and initiate downloads works perfectly, OCR is not needed anymore for the client ... But it's strange Dark has those problems with the download. For me, as I said, it's just seeing those predetermined storage values, scrolling down and clicking finish and the download is on its way.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

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2019-09-11 21:37:47 (edited by BlindNinja 2019-09-11 21:39:01)

Steam is the PC equivalent of the play station network... enough said. That's why people, both developers and gamers use it. If all of us VI gamers stopped using it, the actual impact would be less than nothing.
It is strange though that Dark's having these download issues, both the client and website work swimmingly here, and have on both the computers I've used in recent years.

"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."
guards, skyrim

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2019-09-11 22:18:44

With the -no-dwrite switch enabled in your Steam properties, you should be able to use nvda with windows 10 ocr to locate the next or finish buttons. If not, just keep hitting enter until the window disappears.
Actually, the situation revolving around Steam accessibility is actually more of a hot mess than we may think. The chat window and the web-wrapper for the store are accessible, the problem is you can get trapped in those windows because those are the components that have been updated to use the new chromium engine. The library has not yet been updated, and what the holdup is I haven't a clue. Given the fact that nearly everyone has a beta program of some kinds (Microsoft has the insider previews which they actually listen t feedback on), Sony, well, they have something, its effectiveness is who knows how much. But given the fact Valve is practically the only! major vender that doesn't collect feedback from an organized beta community, I'd say that's more than half of their problem. There's no one around to tell them hey, this works and this doesn't, and they are probably oblivious to the fact that some parts are more accessible than others, or worse yet, during the time when the client wasn't accessible whatsoever.
The problem with selling on itch.io is you're on your own as far as DRM is concerned. It's a great resource for indie devs to sell their games, but many developers don't integrate even simple drm, which naturally means that people have the means necessary to pass the game around even though they damn well shouldn't. If the mainstream world did not revolve around app stores, I'd say we need another Software Passport/Armadilo, but there's just not enough interest, and all the drm software out there is either subscription-based or extremely! expensive. I think Ethin had something going for the inner workings of a drm methodology in another topic. If we could just get that out there, perhaps more developer s could be convinced to sell on itch.io if Steam is not going to become accessible any time soon.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-09-12 01:02:03

to Liam, hey, I just wanted to help, and he already payed for the game, and he's stil having issues when downloading, I'm not being A leegalist, i'm just helping cuz he wanted to play the game.

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2019-09-12 02:31:50

@juan reina: The problem though is it's still indirectly a crack if that's what you were doing. It's one thing to, say, strip drm from your own purchased ebooks and software and the like, but to pass it around is a no go.
Ideally, the idea is to avoid this sort of thing even having to happen by having an accessible UI, but that's not happening until the library view gets updated in Steam, meanwhile we have a hit or miss success rate with OCR.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-09-12 07:02:33

IInteresting. I never heard about this kind of problems. Interesting fact is Steam bootstrapper is the name of the main steam process. I am installing games from my Steam client directly as it is faster and doable. You can navigate in the main steam window using arrow keys through your games. Of course screen reader will not read anything but you can, for example click enter on something and new window will open, like "Installation of A blind legend"
where you need to press enter till the window will close.

I tested Steam and installing games on many machines and never got any issues with the client. Everything worked, and is working just great.

If you like what I am doing just show it to me by clicking on that button below the post. :)
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2019-09-13 06:04:22

I'm currently at my  parents on my laptop, which I don't  intend to install steam on, so I'll try the thing again this weekend.
Unfortunately, the problems I'm having I'm fairly sure are  due to inaccessibility, since generally  inconsistency with screen reader output is a sure fire indication that the window is changing, or that the usable text has moved, even when using ocr.

As to the wider debate, I was prepared to give steam a chance for the sake of the genuinely good quality and accessibility minded developers who use the system, but at this point, given that Valve has flatly  ignored all attempts to discuss accessibility, I'm coming to the conclusion steam can rot in hell and I sincerely hope everyone involve with the project gets a really painful bowel disease!

Sorry I know this isn't reasonable, i'll be the first to admit I'm not feeling great at the moment, and as I said I will try the thing again this weekend.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-09-13 09:28:04

That'd be great idea to check if the Steam will react the same on the other machine, maybe this laptop for example as your prooblems are really strange and new for me.

Steam is usable for sure, you can do everything just using a client and when you'll get how everything works that will be piece of cake to use it everyday without any issues.

If you like what I am doing just show it to me by clicking on that button below the post. :)
Follow me on
Twitter
Add me on Steam

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2019-09-13 09:29:35

I'll possibly step on darks tail with that, but have you ever considered, in your ruffing, puffing, crying, screaming and stomping on the flore that it is not steam who is screwing up your experience instead this beeing you? I don't say that's the case, but I just wanted to point it out. Noone else had these problems and if they did, they didn't vent their frustrations on this forum threat. Many people offered helping you via NVDA remote or any other remote desktop application of your choosing, have you replied to those?
sorry man, I normally respect you as a sain and constructive person, but this is just getting way out of hand. Everyone else pulled it off already multiple times. I recently reinstalled my computer and had to also get steam working again and well, everything worked as it should from the get go.

Just to make sure, you are using NVDA, right?

Greetings Moritz.

Hömma, willze watt von mir oder wie, weil wenn nich, dann lass dir mal sagen, laber mir kein Kottlett anne Wange und hömma, wo wir gerade dabei sind, dann iss hier hängen im Schacht, sonns klapp ich dir hier die Fingernägel auf links, datt kannze mir mal glaubn.

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2019-09-15 06:02:41

To answer the comments, yes I'm using NVdA, however the window is simply not reading correctly. In the end I sat down and used my vision.  to check when the window is changing. It seems that while the window changes, NvdA is not recognising even with OCR that changes take place, I always get the same client window with my name at the top, and the list of games then random little text.
A blind legend does seem to have downloaded this time and I ran the game which is a very good thing, however the fact that NVdA is not interacting with the window text correctly is very worrying.

I still maintain Steam's design is to blame, since as I said previously, inconsistency with function is one of the sure fire indicators of badly designed accessibility, neither from what I have noticed is steam going to be "A peace of cake" any time soon (I twice had to restart my computer because I accidentally played the sequence storm soundtrack in the steam window and could not stop it.

While I'm pleased I can actually now play the game I bought and have created a nice friendly start menu shortcut to do so, I am going to be dreading installing my next game or having to interact more with this shitty client, neither would I recommend it to anyone. I also wonder, how many people simply refused to put up with this crap, since were I less bloody minded I likely would not have bothered at all.

Any constructive thoughts on why the window is simply not reading the way Pitermach states it does would be welcome.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-09-15 06:38:27

1. Is your NVDA running on the latest stable release, that being 2019.2? And how about your Windows 10 revision? Not sure if that has any effect on Steam, but it's always worth checking.
2. If you end up not getting a desktop shortcut during installation, here is a workaround (it's a hack that shouldn't have to be done, but it's the best way I have figured out).
1. Initiate NVDA OCR. Arrow to he desired game, and then nvda+shift+m to focus the mouse cursor on it.
2. Escape out of ocr review. Then use your right click NVDA command.
3. OCR again. This time, you're in the menu of options. The first one being play game, so call this item one. Arrow down and note the item number for create desktop shortcut. And hit escape.
4. If, for instance, create desktop shortcut was item 10 in the menu, you would down arrow ten times, because for some reason the cursor isn't immediately placed on the play game item till you down arrow once.
5. Hit enter. Then enter again after you get the dialog that your desktop shortcut has been created.
6. You're all set. This is by no means ideal, but it is the best we got until Valve updates the rest of the interface to the new, more accessible web wrapper. If you have accidentally made it into the Steam chat windows or embedded Steam store through the client, you would have seen webpage like interfaces that are navigable via the screenreader's web commands. But for some reason Valve still! has not updated the library/launcher yet to use this modern engine.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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2019-09-15 06:46:18

You can also manually create a shortcut with this line, just create a shortcut from your desktop
steam://rungameid/gameid
Where gameid can be found by going to the game's store page, and noting the number in the URL.

"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee."
guards, skyrim

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2019-09-15 07:06:34 (edited by Dark 2019-09-15 07:07:41)

@Jack, one of the problems I have with the client, is I see absolutely nothing in the steam window whether I use screen review or ocr.

I always see Darkthetenor (my steam username), at the top, a couple of random numbers, then the names of games, under that are some bits of text as though things are being cut off, though these persist no matter what the window is doing.

sometimes I see  things that look like achievements such as "novice racer" (when I just tried your instructions I saw something called the mother),  however I see no headings for things like achievements, games etc, and as I said clicking on game names this way can be pretty bloody random in terms of what it activates.

I've tried  left and right mouse clicks, I've tried going into the window through the taskbar, I've tried routing NVdA to mouse, but this always happens.
I thought at first I was not activating things at all, then I used my vision and though I can't see what the hell is going on, the window apparently does change when I try to click stuff.

I am using NvdA 19.2 and the latest version of Windows ten, and my screen resolution is normal, so god knows what the hell is going on.

Btw, I do notice that if I hit alt enter on the steam window, a fullscreen window opens with something like a graphical game menu which makes noises when I click around.
This would theoretically be more usable for me since I can see the menu highlighting and click sounds to navigate, however I have no idea what this menu shows, since where as I said on the default window that comes up with the desktop shortcut (presumably the textual version of the client I got by using the note write command), NvdA can at least read the main heading and game names, on the graphical menu screen review does nothing, and OCr just reads steam and what I presume is the version number.

I wouldn't mind the issues too much though if I can install the games. Achievements and store I can use the steam website for, and the chat function is something I don't care about anyway. Similarly, if I can find the actual exe files for the games ih steam/steam aps/common, then creating handy shortcuts is no problem, this is how I've been playing sequence storm, though if for some reason I couldn't find the exe files, I might try Blind ninja's suggestion.

The issue comes in actually installing the games, as per this topic. I thought I'd got the process working after installing Sequence storm, but given all the merry hell I've had with a blind legend, I'm not sure, and I confess that at the moment unless Steam was the only way of playing a given game, it would be my absolute last choice as a platform, not the leasst because frankly I would rather not support Valve at this point and still hope they get painful bowel diseases, or at least fix their bloody accessibility big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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