2019-08-19 14:13:26

Fully agree with Liam on this one. I'd honestly love to see BGT have some sort of future, no matter what that is.
I would also attempt to keep the syntax the same as in regular BGT or at least as similar to it as you can get, to make it all the easier for existing games to be ported over to the new system and so devs don't have to learn a new syntax all over again.

2019-08-19 14:39:45

@23, I don't think you can. If there's a way to do it, I dont knwo how; then again, my knowledge on C# is a tad out of date, so...

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-08-20 00:37:35

@26: the developers will not need to learn a new sintax because, after bgt, people usually learn python.
@25: Thank you for the support. You sead that angelscript is not hard to use, seriously? Have you tried to wrap it for .net or even jvm for that matter? I tryed it with swig and no success, so, unless you don't want to try for your self which I advise to try, you'll have to believe me when I say that's hard, if not impossible.
@24: sorry if I'm rood, but whatever you say, I'll still debelop it, but rest assured because your opinion was noted and I will try not to overwhelm the poor people using it.

2019-08-20 06:53:24

I agree fully with 25 and 26 here.

2019-08-20 15:36:44

How about bgt working on other platforms or why not o other systems? Like android will that be posible? How will you use iron python on android with mono and xamarin how will you make it accesible? On linux windows forms does not work in iron python with mono, and i do not know for exzample how android will react to it?

---
"A good ruler gives the goblet to his servants. He never drinks from it himself. The servants need his glory. He does not cary the flame alone.
For a spark does not lit the flame, but the spirit holds it in place. Forgeting that leads one to destruction.
(Enhemodius before the Altar of the Broken)"

2019-08-20 17:29:09

@30: I know about the linux accesibility problem and I am sorry to admit that I don't know about any viable solutions. I assume that the blind comunity dasn't use the gui distros of debian like ubuntu and it's flavours too much.
Android support is certainly on the todo list, though not in the near future, I'm afraid.
When I think about it, I don't know how I would implement it properly.
I might force users to structure their code in functions that will be called when OnCreate and the others are triggered. Or I could run the user's code in the OnCreate function, but what about OnDestroy?
I could make the users implement a class that extends Activity like in java and c#, but isn't that abit too complicated for them?
I am open to suggestions on that one, I honestly don't know how to approach  it in a reliable way.
For the android version, I want to be able to compile the application directly on the phone as well as sighning the apk file and I don't know how to do that. I could treat android as linux and install jdk for arm, then the android sdk and... you got already, but I don't think that's the proper solution.
As how I embed ironpython in the android application, I'd do it like with any other assembly, by adding it and any other dependencies it might have, into my mono for android/xamarin project and use the embeding apies to do the work

2019-08-20 23:39:29 (edited by bgt lover 2019-08-21 00:04:21)

Version 0.01 private release:
Implemented the base skeleton for making it easy to add  new features in the future
Added a sound object to control an individual sound as well as a sound manager to store global aspects like the listener position, global volume, efects, etc
Added pastebin support for saving config files, practically for burdom
Trying to add twitter  support, but no good api documentation found
Added a dummy tts object because there is no cross-platform solution for mono as far as I know
Added a configuration file parsor as well as a pe file parsor
Added a simplified interface around pickle that allowes serializing entire objects, not only a dictionary like the old bgt does

This is a private release, so I would not provide a download link. I only provided that because I don't want you to think that I make such a fuss about the new bgt, new bgt here, new bgt there, and the development has stopped before it began.
This is the last oportunity to criticize the development flow of this product, so don't hesitate to post here. Any opinions?

2019-08-21 11:25:58

well, i foley agree with post 26 heare, go ahead in your project, i wish you best of luck

And as anyone who's gone mountain climbing knows ,The serene snow-covered peaks that look so tranquil from a bdistance, Are the deadliest
sound is my vision
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2019-08-22 06:15:49

I totally understand the point around not doing it: the advantages of python, the limitations of BGT, I really get and those are very fair points.

Despite that, I go with Liam and 26. There are people who would really like to have this New BGT (NGT?), I certainly would love to try it, and if you feel like doing this job, then we are truly grateful and look eagerly forward to check out the first public release. Good luck.

2019-08-22 06:52:52

Oh? Wait. I thought you couldn't interact with angel script that soon. Good to hear that. Then keep this up. Make sure it won't die like many projects in our community. At least keep developing it to the point where it's actually something usable and something better than bgt itself. Nice job.

---
Co-founder of Sonorous Arts.
Check out Sonorous Arts on github: https://github.com/sonorous-arts/
my Discord: kianoosh.shakeri2#2988

2019-08-22 20:22:20

Angelscript? Gods above, not again, never again.
As I sead above, ironpython will be used as the script interpreter, though I found some bindings for lua with .net, what do you guys think about a future lua version of bgt?
To finish with angelscript once and for all, I would ask of those who use swig to run it on angelscript.h and post the c# wrapper that was generated for all to see, after that, if people still want angelscript in the ultimate game kit, then I will replace iron python with it.
One more reason for me using ironpythonn is  that iron python is managed code while angelscript and lua are unmanaged code, so I'd need to compile them on every platform mono and .net core would run on with no or allmost no modifications required to my codebase and, since I could not compile angelscript for windows without vs complaining about target incompatibilities and codeblocs about sintactical errors that aren't there, I am stuck with that.

2019-08-23 03:42:11

If your going to embed Iron Python then there's no point in making a custom interpreter.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-08-23 16:06:03

I am not making a custom interpreter, I will not changing the python's sintax or anything, I only tailuring it to audiogames, like one may do with lua.
I don't make this into a python library because I know what problems people face when dealing with imports, dependencies and so on, so I decided to make it in a standalone package, including the interpreter and probably a kind of compiler in the future.
Can you clarify your post abit? What do you mean by saying a custom interpreter?

2019-08-23 16:34:18

@38, what you are doing is a custom interpreter. Sure, your not modifying the syntax or the internal functionality, but your embedding it for a reason. There's not really a point to embedding it for this reason, though. You could very easily make a kit for Python and call .NET from that using Pythonnet. You don't need to embed Python -- it will be a lot of time wasted because you'll most likely spend more time on getting the interpeter working than actually coding built-ins or extra functionality.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-08-23 16:48:06

Would it be better embedding lua instead? Isn't it the same thing? Didn't the creator of bgt do the same thing with angelscript? Isn't pythonnet inferior to ironpython?

2019-08-23 17:23:52

@40, no, Lua was explicitly designed to be embedded. Though Python has C bindings, I doubt its explicit goal was to be an embedded scripting language like Lua. JavaScript is embeddable, yet its not easy to do because JS as not designed for embedding either. I don't know how good Pythonnet is compared to Iron Python, but Pythonnet does allow you full access to the CLR.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-08-23 20:25:12 (edited by haily_merry 2019-08-23 20:25:41)

Honestly I'd much rather it be done with angelscript since the syntax makes a lot more sence at least to me, but I can work with python and I'll still check it out when it gets released. I'd still advise you try to stick with angelscript though purely because that way at least devs won't have to rewrite there games just to work with your system.

2019-08-23 21:13:18

@38 which problems are you referring to?

Paul

2019-08-23 23:10:25

@43: Problems like installing the module and one or more dependencies might be missing and, boom, import errors and so on.
Another problem might be that, when trying to import a module from a file x.py writing from . import x, even if class y exists, python might give me attribute errors saying that the class y does not exist.
@42: I would use angelscript only when someone would post the swig generated .net output for all to see and then decide if they still want bgt with angelscript.
@41: Then why is the python interpreter only an executable that only calls functions from python37.dll to do all the heavy lifting like lua.exe does if python wasn't designed for embeding?

2019-08-24 00:44:48

@44, that point is kinda irrelevant. Whether the Python executable just calls functions from python37.dll or fully embeds the interpreter doesn't matter; node.JS does the same thing with V8 and so does your web browser -- and JS was definitely not designed to be embedded in non-web browser applications, which is what gave rise to so many JS interpreters. Both can be embeddable; sometimes though embedding is absolutely pointless.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2019-08-24 00:52:45 (edited by pauliyobo 2019-08-24 00:56:36)

@44
The use of the from statement extensively is really discouraged because it could cause circular dependency in the long run.
And as long as you provide a requirements.txt file, unless the dependency in question has been removed you should not run in any issues.
Besides, when you install a package from pip, it usually collects it's dependencies too.
the AttributeError you're mentioning is not the interpreter's fault. You have to debug and find out what's going on.
I could then say that if you miss a dependency from a c# project the compiler will bitch about it.
If you even miss a reference to an assembly you'll go boom anyway. I'm sorry but I can't really take your point as valid. Of course the project is yours and you do whatever you want with it, but I've just given my point of view.

Paul

2019-08-24 04:26:43

@46: I rarely have problems with pythons stile of managing dependencies and failed imports, but when it happens, it hits more painfully than a phisical blow to the hed.
For example, this github repository
https://github.com/marcelogdeandrade/PythonCompiler
has the code to which I was refering when I mentioned the attribute error and module not found error.
Could it be a python 2/3 incompatibility? I have problems when, for example, if I've got a package whos dependencies have versions for both python 2 and 3 and pip will install the wrong version for even a single one and, what do you think will happen? Import errors and many, many more.
I'm not saying this just to insult python, actually I love the language, I just wanted to say that this is one of a verry short list of reasons for which I stop programming for days in a row, dependencies and the general head eike integrating other persons libraries, especially managed ones.
I can't build angelscript, code::blocs reports errors with some .s file, vs complaining about ms target files missing, being corrupted or the project needing retargetting, the make tool reporting there were errors building target x, etc.
As for c#, I don't use third party libs because I am coding what I am needing, I use newget packages. Basically, when you add a reference in package manager, vs attaches it with the full name and version, so that, when another person wants to compile your project, the correct package will be downloaded whithout leting you scruing the building process just because you fergot to specififying a version number in a requirements.txt the way pip does.

2019-08-24 11:25:19 (edited by pauliyobo 2019-08-24 11:25:36)

@47 the only problem I had with this application was that parser would raise an ImportError.
But the reason was quite simple. parser, is a builtin module, and it would conflict with the module the user created. Renaming the file was sufficent.

Paul

2019-08-25 04:23:31

@48: Thanks for that one, I could never figured out about that built-in module.
Do you rememver that I posted not a so much while ago about my computer being at the breaking point? Now, it's broken.
Allmost two hours ago, while I was playing the gate in nightmare mode, when, qwite suddanlly, it turned of and …
Well, long story short, my ssd got formated, all my data lost including my little bgt!
As i'm obviously remaking ultimate game kit, if anyone has any opinions about excanging ironpython for lua, still wanteing angelscript or just generate a managed wrapper around with swig or simply got one somewhere, please post here!

2019-08-25 04:57:08

Developing this with Python would be pointless. It would add needless overhead. If you want to do something like this with Python, you should just make a python game kit module, because Python can run natively and is not designed for embedding, at least not in the same way lua is. Python already has the tools to stand on its own. I vote for Angelscript if you're trying to piggyback off of the success of BGT.