2019-07-17 00:07:51

I just saw the off topic room, and was wondering if this could be taken further. Certain developers seem to repeatedly come up in the drama cycle, and I'm wondering if we as a community could just put our foot down and say enough is enough.
I propose that we stop allowing new topics about games from Sam, Ivan and Mason, as all of them seem to be monthly drama topic generators. Nothing against these people personally, they just have a truly toxic community of players it seems.
To be fair, they should be allowed to have a single topic in the new releases room per game, as when someone visits that topic they will know what to expect, but the offshoot threads of drama just keep popping up.

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2019-07-17 02:21:19

I would certainly agree and second this, but we need to come up with a way for this not to be or seem discriminatory for outsiders. Yet again its just amazing the very low attitude that these developers themselves also bring to the table in some instances, its just unfortunate.

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2019-07-17 04:04:14

No, no, and no. I am heavily opposed to this in all it's forms.

I must preface this by saying I am personal friends with and a code contributor to games made by one or more of these developers. Thus my opinion might be biased so take it as you will, though I do kindly request at least impartial consideration.

Discussion of the killer was banned on account of repeated topics that needed closing over the last couple months. We're not talking a few here and there either. This particular game has been quite problematic from multiple angles not the least of which could have eventual legal  complications.
This all really started when the code was leaked in January or so.
Ivan has made balloon master, which many people have seemed to enjoy. There is absolutely no reason that should be banned, as I don't remember a single bit of drama arising from the release.

Sam and i developed Redspot, yeah there it is. We developed the game while we were still learning and growing up. By growing up, I mean 13, 14 and 15. As a result, many of our decisions weren't exactly smart. You can't necessarily blame someone for giving the community a good game at an extremely young age, meanwhile juggling everything else life happened to throw our way. The failure of Redspot can be broken down into two events that ultimately lead to it's regretful downfall. In addition, you'd be banning all his other games. Survive the wild, ah dammit, the soon to come constant motion, etc etc. These obviously have there issues, which ones don't, but the ratio of hours spent complaining to hours spent playing is honestly quite laughable.

Mason has this annoying habit of creating games then running away when things fail to pan out a certain way, in all letting his emotions prematurely dictate his actions. The resulting shitstorm, every single time, is irritating and you'd think people would learn a thing or two. Still, he's created some fun titles. What follows Mason isn't necessarily drama but kids wanting every little project they can get, crying when it doesn't happen, and crying yet harder when their favorite game is discontinued. A couple days later those same people just come running back, allowing themselves to get reinvested. Thus the cycle continues. Games such as endless runner, zombie arena and scrolling battles were fun to play around with. I'm of the mind that restricting new posts from developers would ultimately be giving off a highly unwanted oppressive vibe that we a, wouldn't want and b, would live to regret.

A couple problematic titles should not be grounds to ban all future projects, or put everything in one topic, or give said developers any less of a right to publicize new content. I believe with every failure comes a learning experience, a chance at doing better next time and learning from previous mistakes. Not a reason to ban everything that these creators make which could be enjoyed by the community.
This is a terrible idea.

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2019-07-17 05:26:49

First of all, I want to start off by saying that not everything is our fault. I can't actually help the fact that most of the people on here or who play my games are of the type who wish to have everything for free. Most of these people generally are the people who post endless topics about how this game is free, I think the developer is just money hungry aaaaaa! Also take in to consideration I have only 2 games released and one of them being an online game. I can tell you this though, for the time being, I'm done with those online games because I just do not have time to deal with the drama that comes along with keeping up a multiplayer game.

Ivan

2019-07-17 05:54:27 (edited by The Dwarfer 2019-07-17 05:56:00)

I'll start with the initial interpretation I had.
Agreed @Carter. Not to mention, I know that at least Sam has not caused this drama himself. The toxic community came from the nature of the game - online, central server, free to play, unsteady rules (that one is a bit more on Sam and Carter and the other admins), not from anything Sam did directly. He's a perfect example of how using other's actions to penalize an innocent individual would be a terrible idea.
I honestly wouldn't mind someone telling Mason and Ivan to back off posting until they got things together, I.E. committed in the case of Ivan to charging or not charging, leaving things up or down etc, and emotional stability among other things for Mason, but even Still as Carter said, oppressing them would be a bad idea. Ultimately their stupid choices are and have made a bad name for them as developers, but their players do have the choice not to play. Realize that oppressing someone's annoying discussion would just result in the drama starters to find something else to start drama over. We should go after the people actually causing drama rather than the thing the drama is about.
Now for my second interpretation, which I formed later on because the first paragraph of post 1 seems to set forth a firm idea, while post 2 backs off from it enough to allow an exception. So I gathered that what post 1 suggested was that we prohibit discussion of these developer's games because they cause drama, except for the new releases topic announcing them.Slightly better, because you're not effectively banning them, but still no because it then prevents people from posting legitimate  questions and concerns about the game in an easy to find, clearly marked topic, rather than a thread of 5000 posts. It also prevents the developer from announcing big updates outside of the huge topic. And it prevents all of this by nature, because each of these topics has the potential to turn into a drama fest.
So to sum things up, I like your intentions and I fully agree with you that drama, especially that which involves these developers, is bullshit and it would be really friggin nice if we could find a way to stop it. However, I respectfully disagree with the way you suggest going about it.

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2019-07-17 11:23:03

its not the best idea that i have heard so far

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2019-07-17 11:38:12

I have to agree with Dwarfer and Cartertemm here, if people cause drama, crack down on the people, however we are a games forum  and to prohibit games discussion just seems nuts to me.

There are also too many instances where games by the respective developers are discussed in context of conversations about games generally.
For example, if someone asks about what platform games are available and is recommended tomb hunter, or if someone asks about online multiplayer games and is recommended survive the wild.

Lastly, I will say if such a rule did come into effect I personally would fall fowl of it on a regular basis, since manifestly I have to add games to the db, discuss when links alter and the like.

I will say however, that it might be a good idea to strengthen the existing rule regarding not discussing bans from online games, or bad behaviour in online games, perhaps by making it a general "don't bring drama onto the forum from other games" type of rule.

While I wouldn't want to remove all! discussion of what happens on online games, it seems that much of the drama occurs  because people bring their quarrels from online games to the forum, or use the forum as a soapbox to have a go at a certain developer.

While we obviously don't want to preclude discussion of online games entirely, perhaps a rule advising people to leave online game drama at the door and not use the forum as a platform for slagging off given developers or admins, might be a good idea.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

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2019-07-17 16:16:12

I don't like this idea, it seems absurd. I'm not thrilled that the ban on TK had to be put in place, but I understand the necessity of it. This though, would be carrying things way too far.

Pain is life and life is pain.

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2019-07-17 17:58:16

Neither I don't want this idea. In my opinnion...

Well, just my electronic part, if you need it. If you like my posts, thumbs up to me. I'm just happy for being here! Oh yeah yeah.

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2019-07-18 02:04:53

This is a really terrible disgusting idea.  It is not the developers fault that this drama is brought on.  It comes from those who love to cause trouble and don’t get enough of it the first time.  The developers cannot control what  Threads are create on this forum d. Those are brought on to the forum by those who want trouble.  Remember people these programs took time to be created and shit does not come for free. Get used to it, nothing is ever free.   Even if it is labeled as free, somebody somewhere had to pay for something.  Whether it  was with their money, and or with their  time. A very good example is this very forum it’s self. Z

Their is no such thing as a master.  One is never done learning, and those who claim to be a master at something are far from becoming one!!

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2019-07-18 13:32:24

At this point, I think blackballing these developers is a bad idea, so I generally agree with the consensus.
Thing is, I also disagree a little with the last post. In some cases (though not all) these developers have done things to fuel the drama that has started and proliferated on their games (Mason in particular comes to mind). Does that mean we should blackball him? No, not in my opinion. But it does mean that perspective is good, and we shouldn't just ignore things that have happened because it's convenient.

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2019-07-18 17:49:03

@5, yes, your second interpritation is what I was going for. Less punishing the developers, because it's very rare that developers make separate topics of the type I'm thinking of.
I understand how problematic this idea is as a precedent though, so yeah, consider it withdrawn.
Dark's suggestion in post 7 would accomplish the same thing without ruffling nearly as many feathers.

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2019-07-18 19:05:29

Personally I hope we never ever ever have to ban the iscussion of a particular game ever again. it was something I wasn't happy about in the slightest. But it was one of those situations that had to be addressed as if you take a look at a large number of closed topics, you'll see they have to do with TK or an unauthorized code fork.
Contrary to what people may think, it's never fun to have to tell you guys what you can and can not talk about.

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2019-07-27 05:57:39

Agreed with just about everyone here. Blanket banning developers is a precedent that we never, ever should have to deal with, and which is certainly not warranted by our current situation.

The Beast adopted new raiment and studied the ways of Time and Space and Light and the Flow of energy through the Universe. From its studies, the Beast fashioned new structures from oxidised metal and proclaimed their glories. And the Beast’s followers rejoiced, finding renewed purpose in these teachings.
from The Book of Mozilla, 11:14

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