2019-07-06 15:37:53 (edited by Ilya 2019-07-06 15:43:04)

Belov wrote:

Guys, why are you so negative towards Jonikster.
I'm a Senior PHP developer, I work as a Team Lead in a Ukrainian company that develops web applications.
And I agree with Jonikster.
A programming language is just a tool. But PHP can teach bad habits that are hard to get rid of.
Bad learning materials like w3schools also play a big role.
Now Python is more promising.

what the hell, Saying that you are a big developer doesn't give you the write to say what language is good. Neither  does it give you the write, to say that a website is bad.
That is your own speculation,   people can use what ever they want.
it's like saying o, don't read this book on python because I don't like it.
That wont get you any where, and there is no point in making someone abolish there plans  learning about something. purely on someone's possibly  mis-guided assumptions.

Belov wrote:

A programming language is just a tool. But PHP can teach bad habits that are hard to get rid of.

may I ask what kind of bad habit. All languages are different just because you don't like the sintacks of 1 doesn't mean it's bad. again that is more speculation, rather than concrete fact.
in the same line when you say

Belov wrote:

A programming language is just a tool

you then throw that statement out of the window by saying php is different, and saying it's worse.
Saying a language is worse than other's, is like saying a porsh is worse than a old truck because it can drive much faster. All things are built for different   purposes,
I could say to you, to go and build a small website for me using php. that would be a peace of cake wouldn't it?
but then, lets say I told you to go and build a AI program that, would use your microphone for voice recognition. then it would try to find out using a algorithm if you were mail or themail.
that would be much easier to do in python than in php wouldn't it?
you don't have things like TensorFlow or  Theano in php.
but you do in python.

Have a lovely day.

2019-07-06 15:46:58

Somebody who is supposedly a "senior developer" in a language is going to preach to the choir why we shouldn't use that language. Excuse me while I keel over from dying of laughter.

2019-07-06 15:49:16

@27 thinking the same.

Have a lovely day.

2019-07-06 15:56:59

I guess 44 lines of code (that was taken from one single source online) is supposed to be regarded as "experience," too.

2019-07-06 16:36:15

lol.

Have a lovely day.

2019-07-06 16:56:27 (edited by Ty 2019-07-06 16:57:01)

Okay first, why the hell has a basic topic asking how to learn php spread to two pages, talking about different sintaxes in programming languages? And also, about php teaching you bad things, no, it really doesn't. Would you please provide an example. C and bgt use a braces sintax for functions, python uses something else. does that mean that bgt or c are teaching you bad habits because they use a different sintax from another language? no! also, you're a php developer, and you're bashing it. Wow. I'm sorry guys, I won't be at the convintion, i just died of laughing.

Ty

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2019-07-06 17:04:28

Lol, it's crazy how a simple inquiry can turn into...This. I'm by no means making it any better. I'm sure the poor kid has seen this clusterfuck and doesn't even want to touch PHP now hahaha

2019-07-06 17:41:56

@31, yes. I'm a PHP developer. And I hate PHP.
I loved PHP when I started. This world was wonderful. But now I understand how PHP works.
Jonikster, Now I understand that you were right when you spoke about the developers who are here.
Guys. You know what an interesting situation I observe.
A beginner asked about PHP. It's clear.
People answered him, advised w3schools.
Jonikster said that PHP teaches bad things.
And he received negative comments about this.
Moreover, these negative comments were from popular developers here. Pauliyobo, Ethin, cartertemm.
These people said that Jonikster is wrong.
In post 16, Jonikster described his position in more detail.
So, what is next?
Developers, unable to find arguments against this post, begin to make silly arguments.
Personally, as sinior PHP developer, I see the arguments given by Jonikster sufficient to understand what PHP and w3schools are.
If you're such a cool developer, where is your code. Can I see it? Where are your games, sites. Or are you so stupid that you can't even develop one project?
About my code and my projects, I can give you sites in the development of which I participated. One question, can you understand the Russian language ...
I'm sorry, but here I see only a few developers who can really justify their position, who say that I see, they really have experience. Developers such as magurp244, Rastislav Kiss.
pauliyobo, Ethin, if you value your reputation, prove to me, ok, not me, all of us, that you are good developers. Otherwise, you are just stupid people who want to teach others to be superior to others.

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2019-07-06 18:00:07

so I would agree with you in principle, however Jonikster on more than one occasion has made spurious claims regarding other programming languages. Feel free to check out several other topics. if this was his first time pulling something like this I would totally agree with you and say we should all lighten up, but this is not the first go round.

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my space bar. Prepare to die!

http://l-works.net

2019-07-06 18:52:49

@33 except, I'm not trying to be superior, I'm just saying what I think and I believe that what I say isn't completely false.
Even though my projects are on github, I have no desire to prove that I'm superior
1. Because I'm not.
2. Because There is no reason for doing that.
If though you guys can not handle negative comments nor critics I have no actually idea on what to tell you.
It seems to me that you're using the PHP senior developer title just as an excuse to then say that you're right and we're wrong.
Development of sites in which you participated? andn sorry my man... How do I know that you haven't contributed only one line to that site.
Come on now.
PS: I could be stupid to not develop  a single project, but you're the stupid here, because you claim so much for code but you haven't shown any line of yours.

if you wish,  you could give a look at my github profile.
If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

2019-07-06 19:06:13

@35 Nice job.
"

Have a lovely day.

2019-07-06 19:20:40

@33, you seem to be wanting to defend Joniksters position, instead of defending yours. Might I ask a few questions?
1) What PHP company do you work for?
2) How does PHP teach you bad practices? How is it worse than all the other 600 plus languages out there?
3) How are us developers unable to defend our positions when we're quite aptly doing it and you are quite aptly failing at it?
It is clear that you have not seen the full depth and scope that Jonikster will go to to make him look superior to all the rest of us. None of us are claiming we're superior here. None of us are claiming we're gods. We are stating, with evidence to prove it, that you are wrong. We are soundly destroying your arguments, and so the only course of action you can take is to accuse us of giving hin megative feedback, a.k.a. criticism. Here's the law, man, and its auniversal one: criticism is everywhere. No matter what you say or do, you will bbe criticized. Some criticism is destructive, others is constructive. Some criticism is an attack and some isn't. And so on. The only thing you can do is to learn to suck it up and take it, because its going to happen. Intelligent people will make intelligent statements that you will find hard to disprove unless you know how to do research. The same applies for the opposite spectrum, except that that side is easy to disprove.
As for us not having experience? Hell yes some of us -- including myself -- have had experience. I'd be happy to publish some of my code, including a VFS implementation for my ernel I'm working on to prove that claim. I'm sure many of us would be happy to do same. But your -- and Joniksters -- continued claims are only damaging the developer community here, and everywhere else you post this shit, and not actually benefiting anyone. (Its also damaging your reputation, too.) When I saw your first post in this room I thought you were an intelligent guy, someone who would actually understand where we're coming from. But now? No, I don't lump you in with someone who understands our viewpoints, because the only viewpoint you actually will try to understand is that of Joniksters, who's reputation is absolute zero at this point. Enough with the idiocy -- actually learn something, would you?
Now, might we actually move back onto the original topic that the OP created and get rid of these nonsensical hooligans?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-07-06 19:21:09

Look at pauls github.

Ty

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2019-07-06 19:26:52

Just joined not even a few weeks ago, only 12 posts on their profile, and defending jonikster, hmmm...Funny how Belov hasn't been here long and seems to know quite a bit about the forum. wink

2019-07-06 19:26:55

Ok. I'm tired of this. Jonikster keeps saying these are the developers who haven't released a project ever, whenever people say something he doesn't like. It's a bad attitude. It is just like insulting the developers here. You've been arguing with everyone in many posts in the recent week(s) and it's interesting for me that you didn't take the time to think about the 1 percent that your thoughts might be wrong now that everyone is telling you You are wrong. I feel you're the kind of person that thinks if the world is saying x and I'm, alone, saying Y, Y is correct of course.
And unfortunately, these types of people are not so likely to change no matter how hard you try.
Don't ever forget that You were the one who was sending topics constantly asking us which programming language is better and which one works for your solution. Yeah you were asking these developers who never released anything and just throw random words around to say "I also know programming". ("We are the devs! ") hahaha.
It was maybe our falt that you've become like that. Since we are inexperienced developers who haven't released anything ever and stuff like that, We gave you wrong tips and helps so you fell off the line and now that part of your mind that reacts to programming topics is messed up or something.

Add me on skype: kianoosh.shakeri2
Or follow me on twitter @kianoosh shakeri

2019-07-06 19:38:30

@Belov, Thank you, but you see these people. To be honest, I know only a few developers who are really good.
Rastislav Kiss, magurp244, and yes, Munawar.
That's really cool people.

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2019-07-06 19:45:15 (edited by Ethin 2019-07-06 19:49:15)

@41, uh... I see your thought process now... interesting, that is. So you will *only* say that a developer is good if they agree with your viewpoints. Interesting... I don't see many, if any, people ever agreeing with you. I don't even ever recalling Munawar, Magorp244, or Rastasliv Kiss agreeing with something you said either. (I apologize if I misspelled those names, guys.)
I have told you countless times, and will also tell this to Belov, stop making claims you can't prove and go use a tool called Google. You know that tool, Google.com? Google.co.uk (or whatever the UK domain is)? Google.ch? Must I go on? Use it and look up information that you can learn with, and then we can all sit down and have an intelligent discussion about the methodologies and practices involving programming and how some are better than others for particular tasks and how some are worse for others. But one thing I will stamp out, ASAP, is which one is better in general, or what language is better than all others and so on. Such discussion is useless and serves no purpose. But we can talk all day about programming practices and methodologies, how to do things in various programming languages, and various other in-depth topics... only if you actually learn those subjects so you can intelligently join the discussions and not continue this trend your on.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-07-06 20:15:57

I'm beginning to become a little, hmm shall we say, suspicious?
Note, I'm merely listing personal conclusions and observations. Take them as you will. By themselves, each of these should be treated highly inconclusive. Tied together, different story.

1. Same style of english between Jonikster and Belov. Same sorts of statements. If you do a bit of cross referencing, you'll begin to detect evident similarities.

2. Same extremely unpopular opinions with basically zero evidence and practical explanation.

3. Same habit of implying experience, but failing to deliver results when asked. In fact we've gotten an identical alibi. having to do with Russian.

4. If Belov were a professional in the field, he would be more likely to provide credentials or examples. He actually seems to find calling fellow developers "stupid" a preferable solution. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

5. Paul and myself have already shown github profiles. These can be found below literally every single post. They have yet not been acknowledged even though I find them difficult to ignore.

Belov wrote:

If you're such a cool developer, where is your code. Can I see it? Where are your games, sites. Or are you so stupid that you can't even develop one project?

6. As seen in the above quote, Belov actually seems more in favor of protecting Jonikster (attacking other devs) than presenting information. The number of times he pats Jonikster on the back vs the number of times he actually provides valid reasoning... Quite disproportionate.

I would write up an in depth explanation of the problems behind 16, but know I will be ignored as has been the case before and many times before that, got better things to do than searching right now though.

Do know I will be looking into this with fellow staff members.

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2019-07-06 20:22:04

I should probably post my github profile too, just so people can go see the projects I have. I need to clean ti up a bit though first. smile

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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2019-07-06 20:42:57

@cartertemm, He started learning PHP in my courses, as he told in one of topics. It's clear that he will be on my side.
But although he sometimes departs from this when I'm wrong in his opinion.

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