@jonikster
Two wrongs do not make a right.
You are correct that some of the commonly cited arguments for using Python are flawed simplifications by unqualified people just paroting others.
But your stating of opinions as facts, your obvious agenda and bias, and your purposeful ignorance when shown hard evidence makes you just as bad if not worse.
You are never going to convince anyone to use C# by continuing with this current attitude, and I am quite certain that nearly everyone on this forum would rather not have you here.  Not because you are right and we refuse to accept your reasoning, but because of the way you have chosen to do it.
So if you really want to help your cause and convince people that C# is better than python for audio gaming, I suggest you drop it, wait a bit, come back preferably under another username, make an audio game of your own, and try again with a totally different approach, because we are all incredibly tired of dealing with you.

Oh! Wow! Here we go again!
I won't even bother wasting my time debunking your claims in post 1 because I already have. As for your claim on how IO is slow... you say "IO". While I would normally stop and say that I know your talking about networking, let's go a bit more general here. First, do you know what this bit of assembly does?

mov eax, FFh
mov ebx, 60h
outb ebx, eax

You probably don't, so I'll tell you. Hell, I don't think anyone does in this topic. But 'll tell you:
The first instruction moves 0xFF (255) into the EAX register. The second moves 0x60 into the EBX register. The third one is where the input/output comes in: we use the "outb" CPU instruction to write a byte (0xFF) to the keyboard (port 0x60). We don't read its response, but that wouldn't be overly difficult to do.
Do you know how long this takes? If your keyboard is embedded into the computer and directly attached, and the RTC is configured at its fastest tick speed without roling over (122 Us), anywhere between 1 tick (122 Us) to 5-6 ticks (610-732 Us). That's assuming that we're timing this with the real time clock though, which is usually (but not always) the case.  And that's in microseconds. That's a millionth of a second. Talk about fast IO!
Of course, the CPU will be faster (the move instructions probably take about 0.0000001 Us), but my point is to demonstrate the "output" in IO. The reason I know how long this takes (in QEMU at least) is because I'm building an OS kernel that has a fully functioning asynchronous keyboard driver (bar a few synchronous spots, which need to be synchronous to work properly). The keyboard driver relies fully on interrupts for communication, and uses the programmable interrupt controller (PIC) timer to send data to the keyboard. When the keyboard replies, a hardware interrupt is fired, which is a way of saying "Hey, something's happened, go check!" I won't go into depth -- but I am working on preparing the code for posting on github.
Network IO is obviously going to take much, much longer than a few hundred Us. So is disk IO. But my overall point was that IO comes in many different forms, many of which are far faster than you think.
When I post it, I'll probably announce it on here if people who know Rust would like to help (as its written in Rust). If you know so much knowledge, why not put you to the ultimate test -- help me write my ATA/SATA driver -- which will be haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard. I think. Or, even better, you can help me get plug-n-play support in! Now that'll be a challenge for ya!
I won't even bother to address your other points as others have already done so. Please, stop posting, go learn how to f**king code, then come back and start discussing things like this. If you actually knew how to code you'd know better than to ask or discuss topics like this -- its just as bad as asking "What's better, tabs or spaces?"
Edit: for those who are curious, I don't know how far I'll take the kernel. I certainly won't leave it where its at right now though -- but it can already do some things, and its only a week old! I might get into userland and stop there. I dunno though, but either way my curiosity about this shit is peeked and ready to learn all it can! OS development is fun!

Please note before reading. I didn't read all posts here, and just thought I'd better say my own opinion first.
Ok. I'm really done with this guy. For the god's sake, If you are someone whose reading through this post, don't judge programming languages based on jonikster's opinion, At least as long as he stays far from being a developer who may comment like that on programming languages.
Please. Please! Someone tell him what is the difference between an audio game and a video game. You can build up a perfect and fine-working audio game, without performance issues with python, with no dout.
Yeah I'm one of those who recommend python to the developers for audio game development, and I have developed with it so I'm not throwing random words around. I developed a multiplayer game with it, I developed an offline game with it, which some of our members have already seen both of them, and osme of them just have seen the offline one. People who jonikster refers to by "those who haven't developed an audio game and suggest python for audio game development" are usually talented programmers such as carter temm, paul iyobo, Etc Etc. Jonikster clrealy doesn't no things and just wants to say something. I'm being extremely harsh now because I'm sick of seeing posts titled as a help to the beginners and such false information is in them. This is very serious. We don't have much audio game developers out there, and a false information is enough to either make someone for instance who loves python and have decided to develop audio games with it, just escape from python and give up on development because they're not fine with c-like sintax languages, Or someone believe what he says, and spred this all over the community and it's enough to just mess the audio game development up.
I'm not against C#, nor against java. In fact, I learned C# before I get better at python, But I found python easier to develop audio games with, while it provides a "high performance" to my games, Both offline and online ones. In my opinion, If even an audio game that has everything a version of gta  has, won't make a problem on python. Python is probably slower at graphical operations but first it's not as slow as jonikster says, second we're talking about audio games so it's out. Done.
Who told you There's no android development on python? I better say, have you ever put the effert to look and search through git hub and google to possibly find python-for-android, or other stuff that might be there except python-for-android? I'm really amazed
Hay wait wait I forgot about this. The title of this post is about audio game development. May I know why "grand theft auto" mentioned here, Why did video games came under my cursor? It's how something can be illogical.
Last but not least, I'm again not against C# at all. I nearly have the same opinions about audio game development with C#, But I found python more to my liking for audio game development at present. But when false information gets spredded around, That's where I get harsh and I'm not greatful of it because i'm not a harsh person or anything like that. But when it happens for the second time, yeah the second time, Expect me to be a bit harsh to protect at least our upcoming developers. In jonikster first post of helpihng beginners(although in his own opinion), People, with evidences, proved that a lot of things he stayed were wrong, Specially about python and its performance. And I see it so weird that he repeated the same staitments here again.
I might catch a warning or a caution for this post, for the first time ever since I joined audio games forum, But I think I really have to point out these stuff
Sorry If I was too harsh. I don't have anything personal with jonikster and I know I went too harsh on him, Because it is his second time that he's bashing a programming language like that. besides Bashing, He's spredding false information around, which can impact our own gaming community later so I see it deserves some strong words
Oh wait wait I again forgot about something. Go check out world of tanks. It's enough for someone who's really after picking up a good programming language for audio game development, even though world of tanks is not an audio game but it is listed in the most played games so Probably when python does its job that well for world of tanks, will do the same even better on our audio games

I've talked to experienced developers about this.
As a result, we came to the conclusion that we can create audio games with Python. But in the event that I plan big maps, open world, performance is important. They told me that in case I want to use Python, in the mechanics of my game I need to use C++.

Offline game? Maybe so. But I doubt Python will be able to work with maps of the same size as in GTA without optimization.
Create an online game like GTA, it is impossible in Python without optimization.

Kianoosh, are you sure you read my post carefully?

Because I take these games as examples.
If you remove graphics, physics from these games, you still need performance.
Yes, 80% of performance in video games is used by graphics. But map processing is also an important thing.

You repeat the mistake of many developers.
***
Use Python! Youtube uses Python. Ok. world of tanks uses Python.
***
But don't forget that world of tanks doesn't use only Python. The game engine uses C++.

I think we should finish this holywar.
In the end, for beginners, I want to remind one thing that I talked about earlier.
I have a familiar system administrator. In one book he read a method of choosing from two or more options.
Parable about the two-handed gangster
The gangster runs off and shoots himself. He found 2 pistols, but doesn't know which of them is less likely to misfire.
First thought: Make 10 shots from one and 10 from another pistols and compare. There mathematically understands further that it's wrong.
Correct tactics: Shoot from the first pistol, when this pistol misfires, go to the second. When the second misfires, go to the first. And so constantly.
Hope this helps you.

OK, jonikster. So to prove your point about the map you could to the follow.
In my github profile there's a library called mapjson
here
Would you kindly make a big map and then prove your point?
You don't need to generate json out of it. Just make a plain class, fill it with tiles, and then tell me how slow it is. Should you enconter any problems feel free to report them here, or I could try the test my self.

this guy is good at creating some, overheated discussions,
check all of his topics and see what i mean lol

Why are you arguing with him? It doesn't make any sense.
For me, C# is better than Python, for some other people, C# might be a trash language, with no potential and such. The key is how we wxpress these opinion.

Shh guys. no sense in arguing. This is just how Jonikster plans to start his virtual state, of which he will be the leader. One of his guidelines is that
you
must
use
the
language
he
tells
you!
Oh and you can't bring up logical arguments with him. If he has nothing on you, he'll ignore them. (CarterTemm and others who received only vague answers if any at all), or he'll insult you. (SamTupy).
I mean don't you get it? After constantly flip flopping languages, sticking with one for less time than the popular kid at high school sustains a relationship with their Junior prom date, he finally! Has the answers. He has officially used all of the knowledge you guys have given him to climb above you guys and he never saw it coming! Forget college, forget experimentation, forget programming books when you can join the elite virtual state of ya boy Jojo, and have all. The. Answers!
*Wakes up and smells coffee* Oh. That's right. What I really meant was, someone who has been little more than a joke, a nuisance, and someone who asks the dumbest questions over and over is now coming back to prove to us all that he's changed. He gets it now. He doesn't need you to help him decide which key to hit with his ring finger, or what angle to sit in his chair, or how frequently he should have NVDA speak so that it doesn't run out of breath. No, now he is paying you all back for your help by teaching you a thing or two.

Obviously he is only here to troll, therefore so am I. that was fun!

Man, this is such a ridiculous thread. I'll tell you all what the best language for writing games is.

The best language is whatever you write a fun, playable, maintainable game in. Bonus points if you sell it, because then you have a customer base for whom you're presumably obligated to do a good job of maintaining whatever you've sold, though passionate freeware is equivalently as valuable.

And that's it. You can architecture astronaut this subject to death, but if you aren't out there writing games then your preference doesn't matter much, and if you *are* then you're too busy for this mess.

Wish there was a more intermediate/advanced audio/accessible game development community out there. I guess there needs to be an intro-level community, but this one is so full of silly "which language is best!" threads and similar.

And to be clear, I think there are *better* languages for starting out. Lua, Python, C#, etc. are probably better for beginners than are C++ and Rust. But I don't think there's a "best," and the best way to spot an inexperienced developer is to look toward the one suggesting that anything, whether it's C# or JavaScript or Kubernetes or Rust, is the best technology for any given problem hands-down.

I'll just say one thing
OH Shit was written in Python.
Oh shit is a great game.
meow
No, seriously.
Python might be slow and a bit hard to get started with, but it's an interesting choice.
I used to bash Python a lot because all I had seen were slow and poorly coded games but it is true that in the end its a preference.
I myself use javascript, very few others do because electron apps aren't very popular amongst audiogamers, but hopefully this will change.

In the end its a matter of preference.

@41, In my opinion, C++ is the best for all things. But it's not always profitable, and it's difficult to learn.
ogomez92, JS, like Python, want to implement everywhere.
Although in my opinion Python is more structured than JS.
magurp244, You just love Python. Don't deny it. And I understand you.
Personally, I can't work with a programming language with dinamic typing, which is aimed at simplicity so much that when I meet with list generators and others, I lose strength in understanding this.
In any case, I'm learning Python for WEB applications, because it's becoming more popular. I think it makes sense to develop things like MUD games with Python.
But it makes sense to develop audio games with C#. This is my opinion, this is my position.