I've heard it said else where of how difficult it is for non-sighted developers to get visual resources for some projects, so I was wondering if there are any accessible art tools available for the Non-Sighted for creating visual images?
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Accessible Paint Programs?
AudioGames.net Forum → Developers room → Accessible Paint Programs?
Posts: 18
#2 2015-11-05 15:36:34 (edited by CAE_Jones 2015-11-05 15:39:54)
Short answer: no, unless you count Powerpoint
Long answer:
Microsoft Powerpoint is the closest thing I've found to an accessible image-creation tool. I have no idea how Powerpoint and accessibility have evolved over the past decade, since I tried to treat Powerpoint as a game creation tool, and Microsoft and Freedom Scientific focused on making it a better slideshow presentation tool, and it would have been kinda weird to complain in this case, so I just stuck with old versions of Powerpoint and Jaws.
My attempts at creating something better run up on the same problems that anything I try to create face, which is to say, I am bad at finishing things.
Since I have no idea where my Office 97 installation disk has gotten to, and I can't stand the sluggishness and the ribbons in anything made after 2003 (I thought computers were supposed to be getting faster?), I've been resorting to Java.awt whenever I want to create an image. I don't do this often because my attention span has only gotten shorter with time and I'm trying to translate imagination into numbers with only the vOICe and my image viewer program to check my work.
In Powerpoint, Jaws had decent reporting of shapes on the Autoshapes menu, could identify the most common objects on the slide, and could describe how objects overlap. The properties dialog for shapes was accessible, so moving, rotating, scaling, and changing colors (including gradients) was doable. Powerpoint 2000 had better accessibility with Jaws3.7 (colors were sometimes labeled, and it supported labeling objects for easier identification), but I never got an Office 2000 installer, so lost that version when my Win98 box stopped booting.
If my Dropbox wasn't (apparently permanently) suspended, I'd throw in some of the terrible images I made here. I don't think I have anything I made in Powerpoint on this computer, but I do have sad_demon.jpg and HappySpider.png. And the test image I made with Pygame, but that's just circles and lines and things to test the image viewer.
I did make a couple better things back in the Java6 era, and by "better" I mean "they had shading?". I made the Jacolanterns in this video (but not the butterfly). I have an armless, legless character concept lying around somewhere, but for some reason it was horribly frustrating to get the limbs to show up. I dunno, maybe I'll make a "crappy images I made since 2002" album at some point.
(Oh, yeah. Powerpoint 97 + Jaws 3.7 was bad at detecting shape overlap when the shapes were rotated, so I had to use a lot of trig a lot of the time.)
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#3 2015-11-05 22:50:36 (edited by magurp244 2015-11-05 22:54:12)
Hmm, sounds like a vector art approach similar to Inkscape, though I don't think thats accessible. Povray3D might also be accessible since it uses a programing like script system to raytrace images mathematically, although theres no clear way to percieve the results.
I've been working on a tool that breaks down an image into its component RGB values and allows users to move pixel by pixel, each represented by 3 tones for each color value. The biggest issue though is scaling, its difficult to properly convey a large, or even medium scale image. The tool itself would likely function best as a pixel art tool for creating 64x64, 32,32, or less scaled art, which isn't so bad because pixel art is still pretty popular and in heavy use in the indie scene.
I think maybe something like a hybrid of techniques and inputs could be used to put together a kind of multitool, not sure. Also super cute video, hehe.
#4 2015-11-06 00:00:22
I think it really depends on both the complexity of the image, and the visualization abilities of the artist. On the one hand, the Swamp Map Editor seems to work well enough for arbitrarily large maps. On the other hand, I tried putting a screenshot from Sonic 3 through my image viewer and couldn't make Knuckles or Tails of it (the start of Angel Island Act 1, after the intro scene. Lots of trees and such making it confusing.).
People have suggested the Swamp Map Editor as a foundation for an accessible Paint program before. I think it'd be a nice start, but the hard part will still be anything with curves or complex details (so most things we'd need artwork for in the first place).
(Maybe drawing from old-school VRAM-saving tricks could be useful? IE, how everything in the 16bit era used 8x8 tiles?)
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#5 2015-11-06 00:49:29
There are certainly a wide variety of art styles and skill levels to consider, but even simple black and white asthetics can still be quite evocative. Hm, I've never used the Swamp map editor, how does it work?
(Maybe drawing from old-school VRAM-saving tricks could be useful? IE, how everything in the 16bit era used 8x8 tiles?)
Do you mean using 8x8 tiles for game assets? Or parsing only 8x8 grid segments of larger images at a time in an editor?
I'm reminded of a game two guys are working on using grey scale artwork with a total resolution of 64x64 pixels that got some fairly positive feedback. Its a jrpg called Nightpearl, link to their thread here. It looks pretty good, though the incredible low resolution is a little unusual.
#6 2015-11-06 01:06:42
The Swamp Map Editor lets the user edit a 2D array of tiles, with defined terrains/collision sounds (which play when the cursor moves over them). It doesn't provide continuous feedback about surrounding tiles, but it does support the placement of fixed looping sounds, the changing of blocks of tiles at once, copy/paste, and an optional mode that prevents the cursor from moving through wall tiles. It's made to work with the game Swamp, so probably wouldn't be very usable without it.
Do you mean using 8x8 tiles for game assets? Or parsing only 8x8 grid segments of larger images at a time in an editor?
Something like the latter.
That grey scale low resolution JRPG reminds me of some of the more impressive games people would talk about for the TI84 (Might have been TI86-89, I don't remember exactly).
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#7 2015-11-06 03:59:01
Hm, tried digging up a copy of the Swamp editor but all the links appear to be broken.
It sounds somewhat similar to what i'm working on, being based on the interface for AudioRTS. It renders a 20x15 grid of 32x32 tiles representing pixels, theres a scan line function where it will sequentially play a horrizontal row, then move down and play the next row, etc. I also plugged in a Meijer scanner for a whole image snap shot, but i'm not sure if the qualities worth it. The size limit isn't capped so you could concievable make a 2000x2000 or 4000x4000 image, and you can load existing image formats from other sources and save as png's.
Its still abit rough, but I hope to include an eye dropper tool for sampling colors on the image to paint elsewhere, cut/paste, area fill, and color customization. Still working on the representation for the RGB values though, using pitch, volume, or time.
#8 2015-11-06 04:32:05
Here's a link to the Swamp Map Editor, but it has no graphics.
When I was working with my image viewer, I found that straight RGB values were actually pretty hard to interpret on their own, so I made it possible to assign sounds to specific colors. I basically just used a text file full of color name / RRGGBB pairs, has the program match RGB values to labels as closely as possible (permitting shade factor and darker/brighter variations), and the user could assign sounds to individual colors just by saving <colorname>.wav in the sounds directory. I'm not really sure how important this feature is, since I never released a version anyone could work with, but it seems like it could help.
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#9 2015-11-08 07:49:16 (edited by magurp244 2015-11-08 07:50:59)
Ah wonderful, thanks for the links.
I found that straight RGB values were actually pretty hard to interpret on their own, so I made it possible to assign sounds to specific colors.
Were you reading the RGB values directly as numbers? Or some other way? I've shifted to working on measuring the RGB values of an image by using 3 different wave forms to represent each color, Sine for red, Saw for green, and Square for blue, with volume used for brightness. When the user moves over a pixel all 3 waves play simultaneously, and the volume of each wave is adjusted based on the RGB values, this gives each color a unique finger print that, hopefully, can be recognisable. I've uploaded a sample here, which gives the tones for red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, purple, and white. I'd be interested to see what you think.
I also find your color ID approach with color names rather interesting, it could be quite useful for helping to identify color types, although I tthink I would also add in a modifier to let users know if a color doesn't exactly match a set color, like a color thats near viridian would be called "custom viridian", in addition to users being able to view the raw RGB values.
#10 2015-11-08 17:40:12
For colors that didn't fall within the "is it a different shade" range, I had it play the red, green, and blue sounds, with their volumes adjusted to indicate the levels of each. IIRC, I also had it try to catch cyan, magenta, and yellow, and try to mix in white and black if a color looked like a saturated version of one of those.
Granted, the audio engine I was using didn't give me as direct control over volume as I'm use to, so I might have gotten the balance a bit off.
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#11 2015-11-14 22:36:39
I think I see what you meant by "hard to interpret", after testing it for abit I found that the tones bled together and made it difficult to tell ranges of color variations appart. I've moved to a Morse Code style, and so far it seems promising. RGB values are represented by 3 sequential beeps played one after the other, with the pitch of each representing brightness of each color. The current build allows you to speed up or slow down the rate at which the beeps play depending on circumstance or preference, you can listen to a recording of the pallet here.
I've put up a build of it here: (BrushTone v0.1), so if anyone wants to try it out I'd be interested in getting some feedback. Right now it can load JPG, PNG, and BMP files, save to a static PNG, and paint a few colors. Zoom and a window scan function are implemented, the readme has a full list of the controls. As usual, Disable Display Scaling on High DPI Settings and run it in compatibility mode for winxp sp3 for best performance.
#12 2015-11-21 22:53:30
No comments on the build? Hmm. Well anyway, I've finished implementing Color ID, Color Customization, and the Pick Color From Canvas Tool, latest version is here: (BrushTone v0.2)
To customize a color, press and hold a number key from 1 to 0, then use the up or down keys to select a color by name. Alternatively, you can press the left or right buttons to toggle between the individual RGB values and adjust them manually by pressing up or down.
Press "Z" to identify a color by name on the canvas under the cursor, press and hold "Z" and it will also speak the colors raw RGB values.
Press "F5" for the Pick Color From Canvas Tool, then press space bar and the current color under the cursor will replace the currently selected color on the number bar and cursor. You can also press "F1" to return to Draw Mode if you change your mind.
#13 2015-11-21 23:38:56
Very nice so far. The pick color tool is the sort of thing I don't think I'd've thought of, but is incredibly and obviously useful now that you've implemented it.
I like how musical the tones sound when I use them on complex images.
I think there are some bugs with the color identification--when you move the viewing area, the tones play correctly, but the spoken name and RGB are wrong (I think it might be reading from the original view area).
I can suggest some minor improvements--the TTS calls that you're using don't interrupt previous ones, so list selection can get cumbersome (if there is a way to stop speech, a key for that (traditionally ctrl) would be great, but I've run into speech libraries that have nothing but the one speak method, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what you're dealing with); you're probably already taking shape tools into consideration, but I can already see how those would help a lot (fwiw, my go-to for rectangles in map editors is to press m to mark one corner, but I expect holding shift with the arrow keys would better approximate the way it's done with the mouse. What I like about the mark is that you can use it for things besides just drawing: move the cursor back to it, scan only the selected area, copy/cut/paste, etc.).
Oh, and it'd definitely help to be able to quickly jump to the edges of the area / the canvas. Something as simple as home/end would do.
Excellent work, over all.
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#14 2015-11-22 05:11:33
I like how musical the tones sound when I use them on complex images.
Ah, I'm glad the tones are working out. They sound better than my previous attempts, but its nice to know others think so too.
..you're probably already taking shape tools into consideration.
Actually yes, I have been thinking how to go about making the select tool interface. I was thinking of having the player activate it with one of the F key's, then putting down an achor point with the spacebar, you could then tell where the anchor point was along with the cursor by pressing "C". Pressing spacebar with the second point would then allow the player to move the area around, copy/cut/paste/etc. or scan the selected area only. Using shift with the tool enabled might be another way to do it though, I might implement both methods and let users decide which they prefer.
Thanks for catching that bug too, it seems there were a few I missed with the Color ID and Pick Color Tool, bleh. I've gone over and implemented a number of your suggestions, Home/End now snaps to the left/right of the screen, PageUp/PageDown also snaps to the top/bottom of the screen. I'm currently using Pyttsx but hadn't gotten around to optimizing, I've put in a cut off so the voice playback will now interrupt any previous voices playing.
Here's the download for the next version with the fixes and additions: (BrushTone v0.3)
#15 2015-11-25 22:45:55
Bit of an update, currently refactoring the code and interface to make it more managable and help implement new features. Not quite sure how I want to handle Alpha blending data though, so any comments on that are welcome.
This update doesn't have any new features but fixes a few bugs, you can download the latest version here: (BrushTone v0.4)
-Added voice when snapping to edges of canvas.
-Fixed bug where you couldn't cancel loading a file.
-Fixed bug that caused the wrong cursor coordinates to be voiced.
-Fixed tts interrupts for various functions.
-Added Ctrl key to interrupt tts.
#16 2016-02-05 09:04:16
Bump. Thought i'd give a status update on BrushTone for those who may have a lingering interest. So far its shaping up pretty well and i'm hoping for a release some time soon, so here's a run down on the current features and changes:
The UI's been rebuilt in to a series of menu's bound to the F1 to F5 keys, consisting of Canvas, Edit, Image, Tool, and Scan menu's. I'm still tweaking them a little but you can press the menu key and select various options and functions from them which is better than a million hotkeys. Also sorted lists alphabetically and improved or removed the need for scrolling in many cases, no more mashing keys.
Implemented Tools include: Brush, Select, Line, Square, Filled Square, Circle, Filled Circle, Flood Fill, Undo, Redo, Cut, Copy, Paste, Flip, Rotate, Stretch, Skew, Invert Colors, Grey Scale, Adjust Global RGB Values, Cycle RGB Values, RGB Explode, and RGB Condense. In addition, BrushTone also has full alpha support for blending and transparent textures, including an "Alpha Brush" mode that allows you to paint only transparency. The Color Pick Tool has been moved and bound to the number keys, so now you press and hold a number key to select a color by name, press right to manually set the RGB values, or press left to Color Pick the current color under the cursor. You can also load multiple images and swap between them with the Tab key.
I'm currently working on re-implementing the window Scan, then i'll be patching a few bugs and fixing a few UI issues before rolling it out.
#17 2016-02-05 11:34:07
At this point it sounds like it's only a few features away from a full accessible implementation of old school MSPaint. 
Looking forward to it!
看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
George... Don't do that.
#18 2016-02-10 07:36:42
Not sure if others were aware already or not, but I did some digging for other accessible paint programs and came up with two results. The vector art tool SVGDraw01 with description here, and BlindPaint for touch screens. SVGDraw seems to have a number of features like transparency and various tools, along with printer functions and possibly the vOICe support, BlindPaint seems abit more primitive though has a touch interface going for it.
Posts: 18
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