i kind of agree here but come on isn't this a bit harsh and also they might have been playing it already. the game cheater for example, I'd probably try it out myself perhaps, but i have already beat the game, i am just going to see what nifty things it can do. ok enough about this.

Uh-oh. You're about to get the rough side of my tongue.

There is a huge difference between a gamer who wants no thrill of conquest (wishes to have everything spoon-fed to them) and a gamer who honestly needs help.
I have already admitted that in a couple of instances with TechnoShock, I probably could've looked a little harder and figured stuff out for myself before asking, but I didn't, and there's no way to get around that. The fact that  have done so, however, does not make me a bad gamer, or doesn't n any way comment on me except perhaps to say that I lke to ask questons of a message board even whle I experment. I wll have you know that under NO CRCUMSTANCES did I sit back and ask for a walkthrough of an entre part/level and do nothng till I got it. You can bet your life that even after asking a question, I was trying to figure it out. The only instance I was truly stumped is when the creator of TechnoShock put something in his game that defies logic (the electric doors, where you have to find a switch to open the first one but can click open the rest?) Um...excuse me, but with the available evidence, I kind of didn't want to die, and had been given no way of suspecting that this new clickable electric barricade would be any different than the first one I encountered. Ergo...not my fault on that one. Everything else about TechnoShock? Well, chalk it up to me getting stumped/not looking hard enough, going back and messing around with it after asking a question here, getting the answer here after pretty much already knowing it, then doing it myself.
Have I ever asked for full walkthroughs? No, I haven't. Have I needed help at every turn? No, I haven't. In fact, for those of you on level 4 who've seen the switch across the pit and the telephone, I figured them out without asking by trial and error. So the next time you want to accuse me of being a lousy gamer, consider that it may partially be the game's fault, and also consider that to ask a question is not an automatic leaning toward laziness.

One other point, and I'm pretty sure I made this in another topic but I'll make it again:
Cheats! Are! Not! Necessary!
They're! Just! Nice!

There. Now that I've underlined it, I hope you get the point. I am not whining because there are no cheats. I am not demanding that cheats be made, only suggesting. And that program to which we were referred? Umm...last time I checked, cheats were for fun.
Furthermore, since you don't know me, you don't know my mindset about cheating to finish a game. It is, in fact, my opinion that until you have beaten a game without cheating, it doesn't count. So, that said, I'm playing through TechnoShock, being very careful, trying to explore and trying not to die, and not using any cheats.

I want to wrap up with the sharpest commentary of all:

You, sir, have a lot of nerve posting a topic like this on a message board which is, in fact, DEVOTED TO giving help to audio gamers. I'm not sure if you're trying to seem superior by attempting to demean others based on inconclusive evidence, or if you're just thickheaded and can't get your definitions straight. I come here to help and to ask for help, not to be insulted or to feel forced to defend myself. Next time you make accusations or critical analyses, it would be very good of you to thoroughly research your subject matter, lest you get squashed again. Good evening.

Okay, I apologise for sounding so harsh.  Jayde, I hadn't read your message about trying to complete the level yourself until now.  It was directed more at Troopanum and DD.  Based on their post histories of asking for complete walkthroughs of X level for Y game (never showing anything about how far they've gotten) I assumed they wanted an easy victory.  Nevertheless it was wrong for me to post this on a forum for help with audiogames, and I request this topic be deleted (simply because anything people would have to say in response is inflamitory and not constructive).

Maybe in this topic people should calm down, relax and think about things in an objective and adult manner. It is quite possible to discuss this issue (and an interesting issue it is), without being harsh or unpleasant to other forum members who's views on the subject might differ. I also don't think naming names, and pointing the finger at other members is particularly fair either.

My personal views on the matter of cheats and walkthroughs are that Every gamer has different strengths and weaknesses, and it's quite reasonable that different people will find different things in games easy and hard, particularly when this comes to puzling situations.

There are also instances where something in a game (particularly in an audio game), may not be a hundred percent clear, and rather than go through a period of trial and error, it might be easier to ask for help.

For example, when I first finished Pipe 2, the boss kept shooting me because i couldn't work out about the enter key acting as a jump. If Bsc had written something about this in the manual it would've been fine, however after three separate completions of the game, and being killed by the boss many times (often within secconds of fighting him), a litle help was deffinately welcome.

I think walkthroughs, and tips on forums are absolutely fine in most cases, sinse the player is stil required to actually complete the task set out in the walkthrough, which might be easier said than done. For instance, I've heard several Lone wolf walkthroughs, but there are missions I've stil not been able to do, sinse that's a game I just find rather difficult for some reason.

As far as cheats go, personally I feel people should think very carefully before deciding whether to use cheats on their first completion of a game, and I'm not convinced that everyone does. There might however be some games that certain people find just too frustrating, and so wish to use a cheat code for, rather than abandon altogether. I certainly wouldn't mmind a code to slow down those dam destroyers in Lone wolf! ;D.

Lol there's something. I have not got the point of this topic. When I started reading this topic, I said, "Uh oh, now we will see a few harsh replies!". Some came but some fortunately didn't. Anyway, what are we really discussing here? Cheats? Walkthroughs? Urm. Helps? I cannot find out. The subject of this topic is like a sign saying, "We have lots of finger pointing and things here.", which fortunately stopped. Now what else? Lol.

I think getting into a debate about who's responsible for what in this topic wouldn't be a good use of people's time and energy, and as Parham said, pointing the finger isn't a good thing.

However, Jaybird's post about the game cheater program has bought up a genuine issue for discussion here: when is it advisable to use cheats in a game? when a walkthrough?

Is it okay to use cheats the first time you complete a game or should you wait?

if the game cheater program can provide cheats for just about any game, then it seems like a good time to discuss these questions, ----- provided we can keep things civil.

Btw, whatever my opinions about use of cheats, I certainly approve of the accessible cheating program, sinse in main stream gaming similar things have been around for an extremely long time.

Great point. Everyone that wants can ask for hints and walkthroughs, while those who don't want, well, can stop reading that part. This that I am not good at audio games should be solved by the help of you who are good at it. We are a comunity, aren't we?
Ok I'd stop saying things you already know.

Well frankly as it stands cheats are less of an issue in audio games right now, I don't know of many that include cheats and most of those that do seem to require completion of the game first. I know you can pay a little extra for cheats in shades of doom, but frankly I'm not sure I could be bothered even if I wanted them.