2011-04-22 23:55:12

Hello.
This is dark, audiogames.net admin.
This is a very serious enquiry regarding the status of bavisoft and your products, sinse we have had a fund of messages on the forum about missed orders, bounced E-mails and a total lack of any sort of contact from yourselves, even a seasons greetings.
Your last post on the forum was august 2009, and that only when it was suggested your games should be made abandonware which, I am sorry to say, seems the only way to get you to respond.
I am a great admirer of your work, bought both chillingham and Grizly gulch in 2006, and have enjoyed both games (particularly chillingham), for it's ambience and high quality voice acting, however these days when the question of a new player getting your games is raised, they are heavily discouraged due to a real difficulty in obtaining orders, and compatibility with versions of windows newer than xp.
This situation has grown intolerable, and when we are at the point that individuals working for sites like audiogames.net who's purpose is to promote accessible computer games are discouraging people from obtaining Bavisoft games, things are at a very serious pass.
While I freely understand that game programming takes significant amounts of time, and that any developement of further games will be slow, it is not directly news of other developements which is the issue, ---- indeed there are several developers who due to other commitments have not released titles for a number of years or given any news, but who are stil very much considdered as part of the audiogames cannon.

I therefore feel, that if Bavisoft stil wishes to continue as a viable concern, and have their games considdered and promoted to new users, several changes need to be made.

1: A working contact address.

while I understand the problem of recieving many mails about gameplay or other questions, this is no excuse for a business to be absolutely uncontactable. Indeed, several companies do specify "do not contact us with gameplay questions" and there are afterall a good many places (such as the audiogames.net forum), where such matters can be discussed. But for issues of actually recieving orders or sending payment, a working contact address is highly necessary (this is another contributing factor in the reason other developers are not considdered to have abandoned their position despite a lack of developement).

2: updating of both games to run on windows vista and 7. Currently both games encounter significant problems in more modern windows environments, and thus quite simply people will not be able to play them.

3: replace the cd ordering system with an online one. Various services such as reg now, lulu.com and others will provide the sale of a download link to download a file if hosting is a problem, however this would make it far easier for people (especially outside north America), to recieve copies of games on cd.

While at the initial release of Chillingham and grizly gulch, downloading files of over 170 mb or so was not a viable option for most people, now things have vastly changed, thus making the complexity of a cd ordering system unnecessary.

Indeed, games of over 110 mb in size are now regularly posted for download, and the vast majority of other accessible game developers (such as draconis entertainment), have stopped all cd sales.

4: provide some notice to players that the company stil exists.

this does not have to be major, or even news of future developements (some companies rarely give news of anything they are working on until time of release), however a simple seasons greetings, a presence on forums such as audiogames.net or mailing lists like audeasy, or simply an indication that Bavisoft is not a completely abandoned enterprise will help to raise people's confidence.

If these measures cannot be taken, I suggest releasing both games as abandonware, and actually proclaiming bavisoft what many people have thought for the past several years, ---- a dead concern.

This would be an extremely sad move (sinse I for one stil very much want to knoo Who Lord Chillingham is), however it would be far more preferable to the current state of uncertainty and dubious reputation Bavisoft have.

If such measures as these are not enacted, then notes will be placed on the game pages of Chillingham and grizly gulch to the effect that the games, ---- while not legally abandonware are no longer supported by their developer, and are no longer available for perchice.

I very much hope this step does not become necessary, and that Bavisoft can work on the great steps they made in early audiogames developement, both to give future gamers the chance to enjoy shooting outlaws in grizly gulch, and to leave open the possibility of future titles, ---- time permitting.

Please respond as soon as possible.

All the best,

Dark, Audiogames.net admin.

I sent the above message to the mail address registered to bavisoft on this forum, but just in case that address also bounces, I'm posting it here.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-23 00:09:34

One of these days Dark will send me a letter like this.  smile  lol, just kidding.  I'm still around, just very very busy.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-04-23 00:11:45

ok, I hope you are putting this message in other places because if they haven't read the audiogames.net forum before, why should they do it now?

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2011-04-23 00:53:15

As I said, I have mailed them on the address attached to their forum account and the mail hasn't bounced yet. If anyone also knows the mail address they were recieving paypal payments on I'd appreciate it, sinse back when I bought the games I paid on my creddit card.

I'm damnably sick of this hole situation and it needs sorting out once and for all!

Oh aprone, I doubt very much i'll be sending you a letter like this, for one thing, you don't supply your games only on cd and then fail to supply cds when people pay for them, you've also produced games in the last 7 years, unlike bavisoft, ;D.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-23 01:09:42

how long do you plan on giving them?

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2011-04-23 01:21:18

Sinse it is the easter weekend, probably around a week just to be fare.

I really hope it doesn't come to that though. While I certainly will blackball their games if necessary, I'd very much rather not have to.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-23 03:03:55

I have a sneaking suspicion that he's just going to ignore you until you threaten to post grizzly gulch and chillingham on dropbox as abandonware. And if that's the only way you can get them to respond you might as well do it anyway.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2011-04-23 03:40:38

The problem is that is likely to get the site sued, which wouldn't be a good thing. I've done my best while trying to stay legal.

if he does ignore me that would be bad but I'm hoping he won't.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-23 05:22:24 (edited by harrylst 2011-04-23 05:28:42)

I would love to actually finish chillingham but I have windows 7 and that frustrates me. Do you know that it's not compatible or is that just what people think.

skype name: techluver
Feel free to add me.

2011-04-23 06:45:12

plus one more thing, they have to fix that bug where if anything else happens the game crashes
I've lost much progress in GG and CH with this damn bug and am getting sick of it

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2011-04-23 08:20:46

Is that a windows 7 related bug? I've never encountered such a thing in xp, but if we are at the point where so called "supported" software is not being supported that just shows how desperate the situation is.

As I've said, if anyone can help me find whatever mail address bavisoft have their paypal account linked to so that I can send them the above message that would be great.

I attempted to find an archived copy of their site via google to hopefully get the mail address from the paypal link, but all the links I found to bavisoft.com were flagged as harmful so obviously I didn't want to click on them (in fact this might be the reason their site is currently down).

So, if anyone bought the games using paypal and could check their paypal history to see what E-mail address bavisoft used, that would be great.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-23 10:49:10

Dark, i think your beating a dead horse here. I completley agree with what your trying to do but given past history, do you think that they will respond?

2011-04-23 11:28:11

The bug which was mentioned is real.
If you are running GG and for whatever reason the program window gets minimiced or otherwhise loses focus for just a moment the game won't respond once you return back to it, even if you only accidentally pressed the windows key for example. I am however not sure if this goes for both Bavisoft games, since it has been a while since I last played them.
When I ordered them a few years ago I had no problems getting the CDs. It took a few days, since I am in Germany and sending mail halfway accross the world takes  a while, but I got them with no troubble.
But the lack of any presence or news like "hey, we're still here" should be the minimum they could do.
Besides, GG was released in 200, Chillingham in 2004 if I am right, from 2004 up to 2011 is a long time for not having developed anything worth mentioning, even if it might be unfinished as of yet.

2011-04-23 11:30:44

This is a copy of what happens when you want to access http://www.bavisoft.com/

Account Suspended
This Account Has Been Suspended
end quote

2011-04-23 11:49:10

I totally get how you feel Dark but I tend to agree that it's probably a waste of time. Sooner or later though if Bavisoft don't get off their duffs, somebody is going to host the games free as abandonware regardless of any objections they might raise. And given how many people have had trouble receiving the physical CD's I wouldn't blame whoever it was. THen again, what's the point of buying the games if they're not even going to work on your operating system?

But wait, what's that? A transport! Saved am I! Hark, over here! Hey nonny non, please help!

2011-04-23 14:39:31

I totally aggree! Bavisoft is really starting to anoy me.

I like to fly! I especially like to fly passed burning debris! wait, that's me isn't it. how unfortunate.
Hit me up on skype!
powergamer8

2011-04-23 16:05:46

Now watch this:
I  am willing to bet that if Bavisoft does read this forem at all, They will respond to this message simply due to the fact that their is discussion about their games being considered to be abandon ware. If they do respond, and say and say that their games are still being sold, it will show that the company is only in it for the money. I  mean come on! bounced E  Mails and orders being lost or whatever the case may be, its just plane poor business practice. Vary poor at that. Even if they ever did try to sue the sight  for whatever reason the community could counter with the proof of the bounced EMails/lost orders etc. and I  have a  feeling that would expose them and they wouldn't want that.
My personal message to bavisoft:
Bavisoft it is my oppinion you have become a  disgrace to the audiogames community. No person in their right mind, weather it be running a  business of selling audio games or something else would ever let things get this out of control. My advice to you is to close up shop since it is my belief that you have damaged your reputation be on repair. If you are seriouslly still in business, then you had better come forth and face the music and answer all of our questions.
Sorry for the long post

Audio game king

2011-04-23 20:07:36

It is with a view to clearing up this situation once and for all that I sent the message via e-mail, and that I'm looking for their paypal address to make absolutely sure they get it.

As I said, if they do not respond effectively their games will be blacklisted, and while we stil couldn't officially condone passing their games around for free, ---- unofficially we might be a litle more relaxed about things, for instance while stil not allowing links to download the games on the forum, letting it be known that they could be made available on request albeit that many people in recent years have had problems getting orders, and that bavisoft are impossible to contact.

Sinse however bavisoft have said as recently as 2009 that their games are! stil being sold, I want to explore every option before considdering something like that.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-23 21:58:07

It's sad really since the first audio games I ever played were from Bavisoft. Well Grizzly anyway since at the time that was the only one they'd released. Chillingham didn't come out until the following year.

But wait, what's that? A transport! Saved am I! Hark, over here! Hey nonny non, please help!

2011-04-23 22:28:56

dark, didn't everyone say that their emails were getting bounced? So maybe yours would get bounced too?

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2011-04-23 23:07:32

Their contact address [email protected] was bouncing mails, but I used the mod settings to find the address they'd registered on this forum, which hasn't bounced the mail (though whether they stil check that address might be another matter).

That's also why I'd so much like to know whatever address they use for paypal, sinse that one is most likely to be active and thus if I send my message there it's most likely to get through.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-24 01:01:22

My instincts are that while Bavisoft are not necessarily a scam, I don't believe that for a second, their site is likely suffering from serious neglect. It feels more like they're not managing basic upkeep of the company. I'm tempted to say if its a dead duck kill it, don't bugger everyone about. Or at least make a deal with another company which is active to distribute the games for you.

I'll also add that I might have been tempted to buy Bavisoft games previously if they were available via download. I have a general policy of not importing physical items from the US.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2011-04-24 12:15:33

hey Dark,
that was an awesome letter you wrote. I have played both Grizly Gulch and Chillingham and I want to know who lord Chillingham is, too! all that happens is Lily runs away from the mannor when Fred gets there!
it makes me sad and wonder what happened as i also tried going to their webpage and Avast gave me a loud warning.
So they really need to get their act together!
Athena

2011-04-24 18:27:06

Indeed, i wouldn't be so concerned if their games were universally awful, but actually their games have distinct goodpoints and the ending to chillingham was! inconclusive to say the least.

I just hope they get the message, ---- in all senses ;D.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-04-24 22:05:41

Another thing i find annoying is the fact they promised a chillingham 2. Never happened in fact, the future of bavisoft never happened after that point.