2010-12-04 21:33:51

Someone liked Aprone's Color Identifier program and asked about describing food. That might be an idea. But first I have a few questions. How do VI/Blind people shop for groceries? Do you have someone go shopping for you? Do you shop with a friend? Do you go alone and ask a grocery store employee for assistance? Do you just guess what your grabbing off the shelves? Aprone wants to know if when you go to eat at home is it like opening presents at Christmas, where you don't know what you grabbed? Lol, he is a little goofy. Back to real questions, would something that can identify boxes or cans of food be useful to the VI/Blind?

Please note, the question regarding Christmas was not meant to offend anyone, just a little sense of humor. Apologies to anyone it offends.

2010-12-05 00:04:26

Hi Neptune and welcome to the forums.
Lol, you really seem to be a chatterbox as you said on the other thread - you haven't spent a single day here and already posted like 4 questions. LOL
By the way, it's quite weird to see this name linked with a woman.
All right, to answer your question: Personally, when I visit an unfamiliar shop for just the first or second or third time, I usually try to go there with a friend or simply ask the shop assistant for assistance. After all, why else would the job be called this way if they were not there to provide assistance? LOL
It can be quite uncomfortable to rely on a person you don't know, unlike your friend. If you go to a vietnamese shop, for instance (I don't know how typical this phenomenon is in the US or not but there are a lot of vietnamese shops here in the Czech Republic), it can be a pain trying to get the shop assistant to understand what you want.
So it's generally best for me to visit the shop with a friend if possible the first few times to familiarize myself with it. After that, I do already remember where the kinds of wares that I buy the most often are located in the shop. However, I never liked to reach out for something randomly, so I try not to do that at all.
Actually, a friend of mine already had a similar idea for a food identifier. Or identifying food is one of the purposes it could be used for. Basically, it would be a simple utility using a webcam just like Aprone's color recognizer that would try to read and recognize writings on boxes and wrappings, even on clothes - it would acquire a picture of the object you point it at and then send that to a third party OCR technology to recognize the text in there. I think he may even have already started working on such a program. He eventually planned a database where users would send their recognized pictures, as the program would remember them if enabled to make recognizing the same thing the next time even faster.
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2010-12-05 01:55:19

Lukas, your friend's project sounds really cool!  Mine won't be reading the text so there is probably room for both programs to exist as each would probably have its own advantages and disadvantages in different situations.  I told her the same thing about the name Neptune!  haha!  big_smile

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2010-12-05 02:19:33

It is amazing that you would so easily remember where your food brands are in a store Lukas. I have trouble remembering where a store is in a mall. Regarding the name Neptune, I understand how some people will think of Neptune the Roman God of the Sea. But I was just going with my favorite planet. I'm not at deciding much and I couldn't come up with a good username so I went with my favorite planet.

2010-12-05 09:33:30

Well Neptune, I personally always prefer the griek names for the gods anyway, so where Poseidon would make me think of a fellow, Neptune just makes me think of the planet and the movement in holsts' planet sweet ;D.

Actually the name that confuses me slightly more is aprone sinse I have no idea what it means.

As regards food etc, I personally never ask friends to go shopping with me, sinse that would strike me as unfair on them. I usually ask the assistant as Lucas mentioned, and while this is troublesome it's at least possible, especially if I continue to use the same shops so that people know me.

For the Language problem, there is a similar issue with Indian shops in the Uk, though generally you can find someone who speaks good enough English, and even if not, if I can ask specifically for what I want rather than asking said person to list things then things are usually okay.

The other method I use for really big orders, is online ordering, ---- actually I've had to do that recently because it's two and a half feet deep in snow up here at the moment ;D.

As for recognition of stuff once I've got it home, a program such as the one Aprone mentioned would indeed be incredibly useful. Currently I use a combination of senses and logic.

I look to see general colour scheme, ---- for instance I know that if I have baked beans and peas in my cupboard, the beans have red on them the pease have green.

I also use tactile indicators such as box shape, size, or fealable contents when possible, identification of the contents through the packit if possible, ---- the pea tins for instance are smaller than usual.

For some things I even use smell (it's fairly easy to tell which box contains my smoked bacon or which bottle is my barbeque sauce.

If worst comes to worst and I'm dealing with for instance something frozen, I just stick my finger in the box and have a feel. If I know what I've ordered then I can usually tell fairly quickly, and with frozen or the majority of chilled stuff it really doesn't matter too much. I generally only do this if I really have to though.

I also keep track of where I put things if I can, so that I can use it's location to identify it. For instance, I'm going to make a chilly this afternoon and the red kidney beans and tomatoes are annoyingly similar.

So, I have the beans on one side of my cupboard, and the tomatoes on another. People actually tend to comment my flat is unusually tidy, and this is the reason, that unless I put things in specific places I tend to lose them, ----- and I stil! tend to lose things, usually because I forget where I've put them ;D.

The only really major problem with food, is that sinse I'm usually only cooking for myself, I don't particularly take the time to do anything time consuming or elaborate, sinse I always think "well it's just me, and I have better thingsto do"

the most I will do is chuck stuff in my slow cooker, or buy something and roast it.

My brother is a really accomplished cook, and has been known to do ridiculous marinades, stur fries and other gourmet stuff, but myself I never really see the point unless I've got friends turning up.

That being said,  regular ritual is getting together with one of my friends for long Dr. who marathons, and we always cooperatively cook something fairly mega then (he works for a company who makes herbal extracts, so we tend to use those).

I hope this explains matters a bit more.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2010-12-05 15:33:10

Ah, right, I thought it can either refer to the roman sea god or to the planet, but the planet was an afterthought. :-)
Aprone is a lot weirder, that is actually right. The only association I can make out is the english word apron. LOL
Wow, thanks for explaining things in such detail, Dark. I admire your patience to spend the time writing such long and elaborate posts. That pretty much explains how it is possible to memorize or identify your brand of stuff, and although I am also pretty absent-minded, it is usually true that I tend to have a much better memory than most people I know. A necessity, I guess. :-) So remembering the location of the store itself and then, after a few visits, of the shelves with my favorite goods is not a big deal. :-)
Sure, I do not ask friends to please go shopping with me if they are about to do something different. It's usually just that we are heading in the same direction for a part of the way, so it's no problem to spend 5 minutes there. What is even better is if they want to buy something there too, or if we are buying something for a party, then I just provide the cash, or my part of the cash. :-)
Online ordering is also cool for things that are quite special in some regard or would be tough to get elsewhere, that's right and I have forgotten about it. How dare I? LOL
Oh, guess it's a good thing that I don't read my own posts before posting them or after. The way I have expressed most of the thoughts in this particular one must sound terribly unnatural to a native speaker...
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2010-12-05 16:31:56

Lol, you guys are funny.  big_smile  Aprone is actually an old name from a few ancient cultures, Greece is one of them but I forget the others.  It is one of those names that people stopped using centuries ago.  I find it wonderfully unique and I am pleased to be able to stand out by using it.  If, for example, you went looking for "Dark" or "Lukas" online you would probably find a half million people who have used either name in the billion or so games, message boards, or web sites around the net.  Aprone, however, will always refer to me.  In the 14 or so years I've used the name, I have only ever seen 1 other person using it.  As it turned out, the guy had known me in a video game and decided to use the name himself when he moved to a different game, and I don't think he used it for long.  People from each game and online community I've ever been apart of can identify me if we cross paths again.  I've played brand new games and had people say "Hey Aprone, this is so-and-so from such-and-such, how have you been man?" because they remember me.  big_smile

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2010-12-05 23:35:51

Wow! This sounds really interesting, I had no idea it was such an unique name. No wonder nobody else uses it when they don't probably even know about it. :-D Good choice.
I use the nickname Neo on ICQ or Skype but I stopped liking it long ago (there are a lot of Neos around as well cause Matrix is or used to be so popular) so I just go by Lukas at most places nowadays.
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2010-12-05 23:45:50

Actually aprone, dark I find to be fairly unique, as in I've only ever run into I think two others in the 9 years I've been using it. I do however have a solution, sinse the full name is dark empathy, ---- and I've never! seen someone with that screen name ;D.

I've actually had people identify me in games this way too.

lucas, your english is fine to me. Some of your phrasing is occasionally unusual and interesting, but that makes your posts unique rather than hard to read.

For online ordering, I was actually thinking large scale grosseries as much as occasional things like cds or dvds, especially sinse the alternative is lugging six bottles of diette coke or 8 tins of rice pudding around which is not pleasant.

I do not do the shelf thing, because I have an absolutely terrible sense of space and spacial memory, this is also why I find mental mapping exercises or games with audio overviews of graphical maps such as mine sweeper, solitare or even sound rts quite a challenge to play, ---- with the exception of time of conflict.

In fact, I'll freely admit I found towers of war a great deal harder to play when I turned off my monitor so couldn't see the graphical map, ---- which I did so as to give good feedback on the game.

Generally the way I get around in real life is much the same as I would in a game like shades of doom, I memorize landmarks and turnings, ---- eg, at a certain coloured shop front turn lleft, cross the road outside subway (which has a distinct smell), that sort of thing.

As to my long explanatory posts, ---- yes, I freely admit I ramble like nobody's business ;D. Also I will admit I've sort of made it my business to be able to accurately answer these sorts of questions sinse generally in my experience it's helpful to be able to do so.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2010-12-06 11:57:46

Dark, thanks for the comment about my posts. I am trying as hard as I can to learn from al the content related to games and other things I read on the internet. :-)
I see where you are coming from with te spacial imagination, memorizing landmarks, online ordering, etc. I am basically able to confirm that I do use a lot of those aids (memorizing and ordering) or encounter a lot of those issues (lack of spacial logic getting in the way sometimes) quite often. You have described the matter so that it should be pretty well understandable even to a sighted person, I think, and I do thank you for that. I really appreciate someone is taking the time to answer these questions in so much detail. I also try to do my best but there is no need to repeat exactly the same things that you have already pointed out before I could notice the new post or topic. LOL
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2010-12-26 21:23:29

Hi,
Yeah, putting things in places does help Dark. How ever, you'd have to go into a shop with a cain and  its territory and find what your looking for, or either get  a guydedog. I haven't been on shopping with an assistant, but I have to say, talking to those Indian assistants could be sometimes, annoying. The reason is because you have to tell them the same thing over and over again. For an example at primary school, I was at the dining   room, and I had to have school dinners. I usually have pac lunch, but that's getting irrelevant. I have to tell them a hundrad times! Not rice and chicken I think it was, rice! But I have to agree with you Dark on the subject. In trooth, it was about 3 times, but it can get annoying.

2010-12-26 23:09:48

Well I don't go shopping, but I do go to the kitchen sometimes. In those cases I do know where stuff IS, IE, second cupboard from the right, second shelf inside. it was rairly that I had issues, IE, someone moved something, but when I do there's usually someone around. if there isn't then I just go back to do other stuff

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2010-12-27 19:17:05

Usually Muhammed, if someone has less good english, it's only necessary to speak clearly and not say much. I wouldn't for instance ask an assistant who spoke bad english to list things rather just ask for what I want.

in cafes, or when getting school dinners etc asking people to list things is indeed problematic if their english isn't good.

Usually, i will try and find someone serving who has good english, if I'm for instance waiting in a kew, or ask someone in front of me if I think the assistant isn't going t be cooperative (I had to do this in colidge several times).

listening carefully to what the people in front of you in the kew order is also a helpful tactic as well.

for shopping, yes, i go shopping with a cane (though i am on the guide dog list and will probably be getting one soon), but this doesn't cause too much trouble. I always take a backpack to put stuff in to allow me free hands, ---- and as I said, for really big orders, I use online ordering.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2010-12-27 20:08:57

I didn't list what I wanted. I said it cleerly about 3 times. I didn't get angry, but still... What big orders do you mean?

2010-12-28 15:49:44

I mean large grossery orders, stuff I couldn't possibly carry myself, not having a car, but stuff which is stil needed, for instance several pints of milk or bottles of coak, lots of tins of stuff etc.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)