1

hello everyone.
i was thinking about some pepole's sound extracting act and i want to post my opinions about this kind of things.
first things first, sound extracting.
actually, i really don't know about why pepole keeps extracting the sounds.
i really don't know about decrypthe sounds.
but, pepole keeps extracting the sounds(especially sam's game sounds.)
why they target him?
did he do something very bad for you?
no.
i think he didn't do anything cruel, bad, evil things.
but you target the young programer and extracting the sound and crush the game.
so, i want to say.
if you extracted the sounds, then just keep them yourself.
pepole can feel anger because of that kind of act.
second.
sharing the soundfiles.
in my opinion, sharing the extracted sound is very criminal act.
so, if you guys really want to share this, then share it privately.
thanks for reading.
goodbye.

i enter the sewers.
i started killing and explore through core.
i killed thanatos.
i'm super arcane archer.

Thumbs up

2

I think the reason people try their damndest to get at  encrypted game sounds and get as many of them as they can is the same reason why sighted people sometimes have huge libraries of pictures on their phones and whatnot. Basically if you can't have something, especially something that sounds great, you're going to want it more, and most people feel the need to get their hands on the sounds of a game even if they would just listen through them once, or just for the sake of saying that they've obtained them.

Bar, bar, bar...
Bar is my name and to go bar is my aim...
Sometimes I'll go "Bad bar",
But in the end its always bar, ahem beer, ahem bar! beer bar!

Thumbs up +2

3

Yeah its criminal, actually the game de could get in trouble if they didn't adequately protect the sounds, i.e. didn't make an effort to include them in a way that couldn't be removed by the player. It would violate the terms and licensing on a lot of sound libraries.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

Thumbs up +1

4

There's a nice fact and it says, Playing a game with the sounds of another one won't be enjoyable! assume that deathmatch project alpha would use redspot sounds. What feeling you get from it? Although there's another fact that most of us already know it. Most of the newer audio games are so much relying on the sfx kit library, maintained by sound ideas and they sound like each other, specially, specially footstep sounds. So people think that the game developers are used the sounds of another game and sometimes it gets into serious problems, which isn't good at all. This similarity causes some people really extract the sounds of another game and pretend they bought the library themselves or used the same library and this one is worse. The reason that people kepped extracting sam's games is that they exit the sounds, mix them and do what ever is needed so people are stimulated to get those sounds and specially show them to others in any way. Game creation, podcasts or audio files. Although it's not the falt of the dev that people can extract their sounds. As you know the newer games are 80 % made with bgt. BGT's packfile decryption has a bug, problem or weakness(it depends on you what to call it), That people can use some disassemblers with some tricks that i never understood and find the key to decrypt the pack.

Add me on skype: kianoosh.shakeri2
Or follow me on twitter @kianoosh shakeri

Thumbs up +1

5

Just another reason why developers should stop using BGT, because of how easy it is to extract the sounds from the encrypted pack file.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

Thumbs up

6

I'm pretty sure that by not paying for said sounds in the first place you're already in hot water, regardless of encryption. I'd be damn curious to see where a game like Crazy Party sits. The sounds are encrypted, but literally 3 quarters of it is still stuff from pretty big IP's. Mario, Sonic and Pokemon. That being said, no profit is being made on these games so there's that.

James

Thumbs up

7

Well yeah, Maybe but i didn't mention that there are a fiew tricks to make it much more harder. First, People can extract any game sounds they want, If they have the knowledge to do that, Even mainstream games.
Second, The easiest way to prevent this to happen is to include the pack file into the executable file that i think every bgt developer knows how to do it. Although redspot and such games aren't doing it because they have a feature that lets the user to update the sounds without needing of updating the client.
Although i'm not trying to say that bgt is a good one and there's no point of leaving it. i'm just saying that this problem has ways to be fixed. I've already got pissed up by bgt haha.
BTW i was reading my last post and saw i typed "exit" instead of "edit". That's what you get from eating and typing on a sofa, Meanwhile having tuns of lessons to be read and being near death from hunger big_smile

Add me on skype: kianoosh.shakeri2
Or follow me on twitter @kianoosh shakeri

Thumbs up

8

I doubt BGT supports it but GMA Games, vipgamezone, and danZ games along with some others all have custom filetypes, usually an .ogg with a weird bitrate.

This... -- Is CNN'.
Well Ted, it sure looks like there's been uh, quite a bit of violence around here
"aaoh, that violence was terrible'!"
Yeah it was, pretty bad.

Thumbs up

9

Hi,
Crazy Party sounds actually are not encrypted, just packed.

Sincerely,
Lucas.

Thumbs up

10

Actually, even if you include the pack file in the executable you can still get at them. That's for BGT, I mean. And BGT's encryption is... less than stellar. I don't think they even use AES-128.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

Thumbs up

11

Well damn, I stand corrected. If anyone needs encourage/reasons why not to code in BGT, there's another one I guess. lol

James

Thumbs up

12

There are much more  other reasons not to code in bgt except this and they are already pruven but I think we are not talking about which language is better guys. Come on. The last thing i say in case of a good way to protect sounds is this. You can get to any executables with any way, If you know how to do that so it's not just bgt.

Add me on skype: kianoosh.shakeri2
Or follow me on twitter @kianoosh shakeri

Thumbs up

13

My feeling on this has always been:

Sure, the developers can encrypt sounds. But the game has to be able to play its own sounds, otherwise they'd be useless. So if the game can play its own sounds, that means there's a way to decrypt them. Which means simply, if your sounds are interesting enough, a hacker with enough determination *will* be able to figure out a way to decrypt them if they try hard enough, no matter what steps you take to protect against it.

Thumbs up

14

Amusingly, I'd love to know how the younger devs are even getting their hands on the SFX kit library of all things, and why younger devs aren't using 1001sound effects or the like. i mean, that thing is over 500bucks! My guess is someone bought it and they're giving it out or something. As for me, audioblocks.com, ns studios's library, the sonice stuff, NCH library, you can never have too many sound libraries especially if you've purchased them.
As for encryption, as much as there are flaws with it I do have to agree, unfortunately you can't just apply aes256bit encryption and call it a day. Even if that were possible, think of how slow the game would be to load/respond, especially with bigger sounds or sounds in wave format.
As for whether or not you will get in trouble should sounds get around? Well, typically sound libraries are pretty lax about that as long as the sound is either not the whole original sound unmodified, or you've mixed the sound in so good that the original can't be reproduced.t That's one of the reasons Munawar was able to include the entirety of the TDV sounds in the open source package.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

Thumbs up

15 (edited by Ethin 2018-06-14 15:12:40)

@12-13, that's true -- if a hacker is truly determined, they can get at the sounds. But you can't just apply strait-up AES-256 to anything. You need to specify the cipher mode. AES-256-GCM is the best out there, and plus, 256-bit AES is top secret U.S. government secrets. Though you should probably layer the encryption twice or thrice, or even compress the encrypted sounds. Could someone get at them? Yes. But not in a very practical timeframe. So far, AES-256-GCM has not been broken since its inception in 2007. That's quite a long timeframe. You could always do what I do with networking data to encrypt it... though I won't give out any specifics. Let's just say, lots of encoding and encryption and other things, if I choose to add more. But I think that sound library makers know that if you're given enough time and power, you can break encryption. What they mean by "no one can get access to them" is that no one can reasonably get access to them; that is, no one would ever be willing to spend the time and effort to break a high-level encryption algorithm like AES192/AES-256 just to get at a few game sounds.
Also, about the loading thing. You'd be surprised that mainstreams gamers are quite used to, and will play your game a lot more, if your game has short-to medium loading phases, and its really good. They won't mind he wait. You encrypt all your sounds and it takes 30 seconds just to load a map? Fine, will still play if its good enough. But the reason people like Ironcross and I push so strongly to not use BGT is because it literally takes me about 30 minutes to extract the sounds from a game. The equivalent in password security would be a 4-character password (aaaa, bbbb, cccc, ...) with hardly any password dictionaries in use and trying to break the password with a website that throttles you to 100 password guesses per hour. Its harder if you pack the sounds into the executable but its definitely possible; the header your looking for is SFPv (note the casing).

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

Thumbs up

16

That's all true, but I suspect the people cracking BGT encryption aren't attacking the encryption directly, but rather, using a debugger or something to catch the game in the act, and grab the encryption key while it's being used. It doesn't matter if you encrypt your sounds a billion times, each time using a billion-bit key, then compress them, reverse them, translate them into Klingon, etc. If a determined hacker using debuggers or other tricks can trace what the program is doing to decrypt them and catch it in the act, it's game over before you ever get started.

Thumbs up

17 (edited by Ethin 2018-06-14 16:14:31)

@16, yes, we do use debuggers to do that. But its possible to make it quite hard to trace the path of execution to get the key. If I understand it, RS uses a method that hashes and rehashes the key so many times that its nearly impossible to pull it out. But hey, what do I know of RS? And, also, using a debugger to get encryption keys from BGT games is so easy simply because we know what we're looking for. Since BGT embeds itself like it does, it still exports all its functions like a DLL does. So in the asembly that you generate you can easily find set_sound_decryption_key. In most natively compiled applications written in C++, Go, etc. this is not possible due to function name mangling. And there are ways to detect a debugger. Like this:

// C++
// Check for local debugger
#include <windows.h>
if (IsDebuggerPresent())
// modify behavior
else
// normal behavior
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

Thumbs up

18

This is quite an interesting objection some people raise. Most of the sounds that Sam uses in his games have also been used in Swamp, RTR, UltraPower, the Alter Aeon Mush Z sound pack, etc. I'm not sure if any developer can claim credit for most of these generic sounds because they belong to various libraries.

I attack with the savagery of a thousand piranhas.

Thumbs up

19

@18, very true.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

Thumbs up