2018-03-12 15:26:52

Dear all,

So, I've been interested in flight simulators for quite a while now. I know that there's a guy in this community who does live streams of flights, but I want to get started in doing these sorts of things.

First, what would I need, and what would be the cost of such a thing? I don't know how to get Steam working on Windows, and I'm probably going to need Steam to get the flight simulator. What other software would I need to get the thing working?

Second, is it truly realistic? I've seen several live streams, but how realistic is Microsoft's flight simulator when compared with actual flight? Would it be worth it to buy it? 

Finally, would I need to buy a flight controller for this game? Is it absolutely required? Hopefully not, as I've heard that these can cost hundreds of dollars.

Thanks very much for answering my questions, I have more than a little interest in getting started. Eurofly isn't doing it for me anymore, I want to experience what actual flight will be like on an airplane.

Indeed, wisdom comes through experience. Those who value life and it's many joys and downturns know this to be the truth.

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2018-03-12 16:13:38

I would like to know if Steam is required or if Flight Simulator X is available without it. If it is available without Steam, I'd also like to hear the answers to Vablus's non Steam questions, though, unlike Vablus, I'm not opposed to a flight controller to increase the realism.

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2018-03-13 16:57:30

Technically it is available without steam, but you would need to find a disc copy on CD or DVD, and you would need to find a copy of the acceleration pack on DVD, without these, you're not going to be able to use any realistic addons, and you're stuck with stock aircraft which do not fly very well. I don't really want to get into this topic though, its disappointing to me.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

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2018-03-13 20:38:49

ironcross32 wrote:

Technically it is available without steam, but you would need to find a disc copy on CD or DVD, and you would need to find a copy of the acceleration pack on DVD, without these, you're not going to be able to use any realistic addons, and you're stuck with stock aircraft which do not fly very well. I don't really want to get into this topic though, its disappointing to me.

Flight Simulation is disappointing topic or the un-availability of it on Steam?

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2018-03-13 20:49:25 (edited by Orko 2018-03-13 20:54:55)

From what I understand, it's flight simulation that is disappointing as it sounds like Microsoft Flight Simulator X and the acceleration pack are both available on Steam.

The problem for me and Steam is that I refuse to use it or to patronize anything Valve Software until they change their attitude towards the VIP community and make an honest effort to make Steam accessible.

For Flight Simulator X, that can still be had on CD or DVD if one is willing to do a little searching for it. You might have to buy a used copy, but at least it's out there.

The real problem is this acceleration pack, if the vendor only distributes it through Steam, it may not be available without it, and if it's required to make Flight Simulator accessible, that would be the end of this project for me.

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2018-03-13 21:11:01

Hi. For me, the problem with fsx is the fact that it's just not as realistic as it used to be. There are some advantages, such as it has many airports and good soundpacks that you can download, but the problem is that with IYP gone it just feels a lot less immersive. You can use fsxpilot which is an autopilot which can fly the plane, but it's not as realistic. It's completely up to you, but i got fsx when IYP was around and if i could get it now i wouldn't because i'm not sure i would use it enough. Maybe just get eurofly for now, give it a go and if you like that then perhaps look at fsx.

2018-03-14 01:02:05

@4 the state of accessibility in flight simulation mainly

Here's the thing, who knows if these aircraft will even work, because the DD version of the acceleration pack probably would be way out of date. The acceleration pack is not just a DLC, it contains a whole new service pack that aircraft need to function, at least, a degree of reasonably decent ones, the stock ones still will.

Eurofly isn't a flight simulator, sorry but its just not. It's OK for casual gamers and I do admit that its atlas functionality is definitely cool, and something I've not seen before, but if you have a passion for aviation like I do, its not enough.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

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2018-03-14 03:13:37

I found a brand new copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator X Deluxe DVD. Not knowing how many brand new copies are left, I decided to grab it while the grabbing was good. Does anyone know the name of the vendor that makes the acceleration pack so I can look into what might be available there without Steam?

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2018-03-14 14:39:32

Sorry for the double post.

I answered my own question by googling "acceleration pack for flight simulator x" and found that it is also a Microsoft product that is still available on CD or DVD without Steam. Like the flight simulator itself, I managed to find a brand new copy so I grabbed it.

Now all I need to know is what else I might need or any steps I should take to make it accessible with JAWS.


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2018-03-14 16:19:55

Me and a small groop of people are trying to get MCE, multy crew experience to work.
Sure, auto landing isn't implemented into the program, but maybe we don't need that, it should be possible to bring the aircraft down to the ground manually, because, as I see it, we have everything we need in the application, and if we don't force an auto landing feature on the devs, it should be easier to implement small features which would assist the BVI down the road.
Greetings Moritz.

Hömma, willze watt von mir oder wie, weil wenn nich, dann lass dir mal sagen, laber mir kein Kottlett anne Wange und hömma, wo wir gerade dabei sind, dann iss hier hängen im Schacht, sonns klapp ich dir hier die Fingernägel auf links, datt kannze mir mal glaubn.

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2018-03-14 19:55:52

Actually most of the sim itself is fairly accessible, the one bit that is tricky is a part that you probably won't have without steam, and you might be able to tab your way onto the left side bar to get to the categories, if not, do that jaws cursor thing where you can move on the screen and then route the mouse to it and click free flight. Once you do that, you can simply tab through options, hit space on buttons, etc.

Just as a side note, some people were getting a thing called UIAutomationCore.dll error which would cause their sim to crash if the menus were touched in sim, this was officially fixed in the steam version, but I think will still be an issue in the DVD version, I don't know what to tell you if you get that bug, as I got it on one machine, but no others, and I could not resolve it despite hours and hours of scouring forums and implementing suggestions.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

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2018-03-14 21:05:16

uiAutomation.dll is available for download if you search it
second, you can use MCE and fsxPilot to control the aircraft (with mce, you can talk to the atc)

bitcoin address: 1LyQ3hziMC2DTnCtgM3V1zfuZ73P3CYT9P

2018-03-14 23:51:33

Thanks for the info! I'll look into it as I progress or as needed. Keep it coming!

I also ordered a Thrustmaster flight controller for $50, I figured that it might make the simulator easier to control rather than having to do everything from the keyboard. The description said that it was plug and play ready for Flight Simulater X.

I've always had a interest in flying and thoroughly enjoyed those times when I traveled between Chicago and Tampa. But could never fly in real life because my vision was never good enough to even get a driver's license.

I've been looking for something to do with my computer that I could devote some time to, and learning to fly a flight simulator just might be what I've been looking for. Games are fun but most games have limited replay value, so the fun usually ends once you've played it through.

And while Eurofly is a great simulator, I wanted more than just European locations to fly in, especially since I live in the states.

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2018-03-15 00:10:59

So,  it seems it's not only myself who wishes to be enlightened as to how to begin flying a virtual aircraft.

How much would Microsoft Flight Simulator cost?  Is it difficult to work with Steam?  Will I need sighted assistance in order to make it work properly? 

You all are speaking of these add-ons for the simulator that will allow me to speak with it directly.  I know that I've seen flights from this dude on Youtube, and all he does is talk into the Microphone, and they get to flying relatively quickly. I want to know if I can do this as well, as i am not sure about everything that an airplane has, and can say that my knowledge on the subject is in fact elementary.

I am all right with working with a keyboard, that's all right, I will manage. Better that than to pay for a flight controller that will break in a couple years. But I can see why people have them.

Anyway,  thanks for the suggestions.

Indeed, wisdom comes through experience. Those who value life and it's many joys and downturns know this to be the truth.

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2018-03-15 00:48:16

I'm curious, how accessible is the interface of Prepar 3D 4?
I'm asking because:
1. FSX third party developers are gradually switching to Prepar and Plane. Plane is inaccessible all round.
2. FSXPilot in particular is giving a lower priority to FSX. Prepar and XPlanes are 64-bit applications, that's probably why.
I know Simba used Prepar 3D 2 before, but the point is to be on the latest, especially with Flight Simulator stuff.
@Simba: Regarding MCE, have any of you made progress on it? I haven't re-installed Flightsim, and/or MCE, since last year and as far as I knew, was the only person helping out Ben and co. I really helped them implement PF3 support.

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2018-03-15 01:38:05

@12 I tried replacing the DLL file to no avail, crashes kept happening.

Anyone want to get into simming is going to have to do a lot of reading, and I mean a lot if they want to know what is really going on with their planes. If you don't care about that, and you just want to do flights, you still have to learn a lot. My knowledge is rusty, I devoted some time to the study of aerodynamics and stuff, which I have a decent grasp on, but my knowledge on radio procedures is lacking. These addons like MCE are gonna assume you know what you're doing as a pilot, if that's not the case, things aren't going to work smoothly for you. There's a lot more to it than hitting control E, F4 and down arrow.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

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2018-03-15 10:23:08

the problem is, i cant buy MCE in order to test that
i have p3d v2 and fortunately it is accessible
about p3d v4, i have no idea

bitcoin address: 1LyQ3hziMC2DTnCtgM3V1zfuZ73P3CYT9P

2018-03-15 14:11:18

Oh yes, I have studied flight and just to fly straight and level is a balancing act along all three axis. Doing anything else such as ascending or descending or turning just adds a little more complexity to the balancing act. Taking off is relatively easy, just get up enough speed, and the plane literally lifts itself off the ground. Landing is another story altogether, I've often heard it described by professional pilots as doing an intentional and controlled crash where the landing gear is between you and the ground.

I guess that the M in MCE stands for Microsoft, what do the other two letters stand for so I can look for it. I doubt I will install it until I'm comfortable with all aspects of flying the aircraft, whether through the keyboard or with the flight controller.


I can't give you prices on Steam since I don't use it, but, here is what I paid for the brand new copy of Flight Simulator X Deluxe and the Acceleration Pack:

Flight Simulator X Deluxe was $95, while shopping I saw the standard edition for $75.
The Acceleration Pack was $55.

What are you? A gorilla? Or do you routinely abuse your equipment? Flight controlers are just joysticks with some added features aimed at using flight simulators, I've had several joysticks before and played a lot of games with them and never had one break or fall apart on me. My last one, a Microsoft Sidewinder with Force feedback was stolen after I'd had it for several years. From my experience, a good quality flight controller or joystick should last years, unless you abuse it.

But, to each his own.

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2018-03-15 14:55:27

I'm glad to say that I'm as human as you, though aren't we all gorillas to some degree?
Thanks for telling me the prices.  What's the difference between the delux and standard versions?

Also, I'm willing to do as much reading as possible in order to ensure I have the knowledge enough to fly a virtual craft. I was looking online about the accessibility of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and someone developed this thing called  It's Your Plane.  Does this work with the updated versions of Flight Simulator? If so, how much would it cost?  Are there any other add-ons I should know about? Sorry to ask so many questions, I just find it fascinating that this is possible.

Thank you all so much for your support in all of this.

Indeed, wisdom comes through experience. Those who value life and it's many joys and downturns know this to be the truth.

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2018-03-15 16:00:28

its your plane is discontinued. It's $25 on steam last time I checked and that's both FSX and its acceleration pack all in one, that being said, Steam is far from optimal since its a pain to set up and a pain to use.

Well, some planes might take off on their own if you just throttle up, but not all, for instance, tail draggers are going to need that pull back since their tails are sitting against the ground. When you get enough speed, the tail will lift, and you can pull back to raise the nose and take off. Weight and balance have a lot to do with this as well.

The bipeds think this place belongs to them, how cute.

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2018-03-15 16:47:58

That is true, however I was speaking from previous experience with flight simulators and smaller, rather light airplanes like the two seater Cessnas. Those planes are light enough that once you get to minimal flight speed, the wings generate enough lift by themselves to literally pick the plane up off the ground. But heavier planes like a jumbo jet need not only the lift from the wings but also the thrust from the engines to get off the ground. That's why the rotate maneuver is necessary once you get to flight speed to get off the ground.

If you ever had vision or have been on an airliner, you'll notice that even in straight and level flight the nose of the aircraft is always pointed slightly up. That's because they need that angle of attack to generate the extra lift needed to stay airborne.


I'm with you with all the questions, I've played with flight simulators before I lost my vision, but until Eurofly, never thought that a decent flight simulator could be made accessible.

It may be discontinued, but I'll have a look around to see if It's Your Plane can be had without Steam and let you know what I find.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the differences are between the standard and deluxe editions of Flight Simulator X but I figured that at only $20 difference, to get the deluxe edition just in case it had features I wanted down the road. Perhaps you could do something like googling "Microsoft Flight Simulator X standard versus deluxe" to find a comparison.

And, for what it's worth, I found the brand new copies of both editions of Flight Simulator and the Acceleration Pack on Amazon, but you can probably also find them on eBay too.

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2018-03-15 23:43:58

well here's the way i currently see it. I am passionate about aviation, of course there's my youtube channel at blind flightsimmer.
Fsx is ok. IYP made it great, but now it's gone and nothing will change that. Fsx is old and no longer being developed, some third party planes will work with it but as more come out they probably won't. Fsx is pretty accessible once you learn your way around it, you can use jaws curser or nvda object nav. I heard a while back that a friend used p3d v3 with nvda but i haven't heard anything about v4, i know it did change quite a bit in v4 so we'll have to see. Now onto what you can use to fly. Fsxpilot is good, it's not that realistic but it works and the developer is quite responsive. It flies  all stock planes and some third party ones. You can add any plane to its directory but no guarantees it will fly that well as fsx pilot sometimes can't interface with the plane if it doesn't use standard controls or has a complicated set of automatic systems which keep kicking in. MCE is not bad, i tried the trial version in the end but did not see enough to buy it. It perform certain aircraft functions with speech recognition, whilst fsx pilot is more of a text application, but it cannot land the plane of course. The other thing is it can talk to ATC for you, although you can figure this out for yourself sometimes using the keyboard depending on what ATC addon you're using. It would be great if we could land with MCE, or even figure out how to land ourselves with info provided by MCE, but i doubt it. It's tough enough trying to keep the plane straight and level without any assistance from an addon, so to land it properly on the right point of the runway would be incredibly difficult. That's not to say it couldn't be done, although i have seen people try and struggle to do so, i really, really hope i am proved wrong of course.
Then there's eurofly. As someone said earlier, not really a flight sim in full, but neither is fsx as the addons we currently have don't make it anywhere near to realistic. Eurofly is ok, if you add orins mod and my aircrafts it isn't bad, but then it still isn't good either.
I would just say eurofly falls into the category of a game, fsx/p3d would be an actual simulator if only we had an addon to make it so. Fsxpilot is the best we have for now, and although it's not realistic it's probably the closest you can get at the minute