2018-03-07 12:13:11

Hi,
This is partially a ClickBait. Some of you who are full time geeks probably know about this, but for those who don't know, with windows 10's Linux subsystem feature, You can have a fully featured linux distro running with the  windows commandline as your console.
For now, there are only a few distros available in the windows store, which include Kali linux, Debian, Ubuntu, Opensuse and one or two more.
If you want to try this out, you can follow Kali's article which shows you how to enable WSL on windows and install kali:
https://www.kali.org/news/kali-linux-in … app-store/

p.s. I've installed Kali myself and it is working beautifully. As expected there are restrictions which explained in the article, But for my needs, this is what i really needed for years. Finally an actual reason to upgrade to windows 10 for me!
Also as mentioned, Debian has been just released in microsoft store as well.

p.p.s. You might get warnings about seccomp when using sudo apt-get on Kali and Debian. ignore them, It'll get fixed in the future by the apt dev team.

twitter: @hadirezae3
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2018-03-07 13:12:14 (edited by hadi.gsf 2018-03-07 13:14:41)

I highly recommend that after enabling the wsl feature, You install ubuntu instead of Kali.
There are some things that are broken in Kali at the moment that will take your  time to fix yourself.
ubuntu store page:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p … blggh4msv6
just open that link, then click on "open in microsoft store" then click on get.

twitter: @hadirezae3
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2018-03-07 16:40:48

I've been using this for months.

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2018-03-07 18:25:59

You do know you can use Cygwin, right? Which is probably a lot more stable than WSL is. Also, the topic title is very misleading. Your not using your favorite screen reader on Linux. That's like saying that I'm using NVDA on my Linux server when I SSH into it.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2018-03-07 20:18:57

Isn't Cygwin Linux-flavored Windows? I was assuming this was running Linux in a VM or something, where Cygwin appears to just be a CLI that looks like Linux with Windows equivalents of the most basic Linux applications. Y/N?

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2018-03-07 20:31:35

@5, not really. Cygwin is a port of most Linux applications (really, nearly all of the super major ones) to windows. For example, with Cygwin you can run an X Windows Environment, compile programs, and use other apps like PHP and Ruby (as well as some other apps that aren't natively compiled for windows normally). WSL is a totally different environment to Cygwin. It's more of a compatibility/emulation layer on top of Windows that tries to emulate Linux as best it can, like Wine tries to emulate Windows as best it can.t WSL, unlike Cygwin, cannot run GUI applications, full DEs, etc., and its extremely easy to break (just update it with the package manager and it goes to shit). I really don't see the advantage to WSL, other than Microsoft, once again, reinventing the wheel and trying to make something that was already made; in other words, they're trying to make a clone of Cygwin. While I like the idea, Linux is simply not designed to run in or on windows, just like Windows is not designed to run in or on Linux. The two systems are as incomparable as apples and oranges, really. They use totally different executable formats, have completely different applications and kernels, one is open source and the other is not, one is more popular than the other... you get my point. I'll go for cygwin any day over WSL; while Cygwin uses shared memory and can run into problems when it runs into stack/heap allocation issues, that problem is easy to fix (just reboot). On the other hand, WSL breaking is... not so easy to fix.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-03-07 21:24:33

Hmmm.
Since I started university I got interested in linux and after a while I doodled round with a distro, I think it was eventually arch.
However the unit I was working on well its old and its battery went flat, it was an old xp unit and when I returned to it to continue after a few weeks it just didn't work anymore so I reformatted and put xp back on it.
At the time I was fiddling round I was really sick and unable to do much of anything bar type, I don't really have that sort of time as such to really handle it.
I did fiddle with wsl a bit but yeah the package manager if you update it enough does well screw it up totally and eventually I was able to get the commands to completely clear its packages.
Cygwin, I tried ages ago, but I really didn't care about its setup, if there was a way to install all its modules or bits in some sort of downloadable innosetup script or something maybe but to be honest I never got the interface to work right at all.
My next plan was to retire this old 5 year old toshiba and once I get a newer hp load sonnar, yeah I know its the cheap way out but unlike other distros based on arch it can be updated for ever in a day without an image on the other people have been going on about ubuntu mate which uses above all things the old gnome 2 environment though it may be on its last legs which I was happy using back in my old university days.
On the other hand I am unsure still on this reguard my other idea was to vm it and eventually buy a box where I could happily set it up log in etc and it would just work.
Ofcause my main put off is that linux readers, ie orca are not as accessible as windows screen readers like nvda.
In your opinion is it worth if at all possible trying native linux again if I have a system spair, actually I have no doubt its the best, but is it worth running vmware or something on say a laptop or system with hardware vertualisation I know without it its complete rubbish or is cygwin fine for what I want and is it worth using it.

2018-03-07 21:44:02

WSL means you can use SSH and SFTP without need of another client. It also means you can interact with the windows filesystem and use git to clone things, and then use the windows side to build / whatever. It's all that in one environment rather than needing to get PUtty, gitbash and shit like that. It also lets you manage files in a way you can't easily do on windows. If you have a bunch of wave files and you want them in ogg or something, you can use SOX to do it, then when you're done rm *.wav to get rid of the wave files in one go and save space. Have fun going through and picking out all the wav files with windows explorer.

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2018-03-07 22:11:35

@ironcross32, you can pretty much do the same thing with Cygwin. The interface for the installer can be tricky to use, but I've managed to get it to install all the modules. It's over 100 GB so yeah. smile

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-03-07 23:58:41

Did they ever fix the whole it only uses the Windows filesystem part mind for WSL? Also I'd rather personally just use Linux on a machine, or a flavor of

Warning: Grumpy post above
Also on Linux natively

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2018-03-08 01:01:24

I just have a vm running that I ssh into. It does fine.

2018-03-08 01:37:42

I like this though, I don't like cygwin

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2018-03-08 02:46:02

Cygwin is a pile. WSL is probably a pile. Both are still 25 times better than trying to run a Windows port of whatever Linux application locally. Ask anyone who's ever tried to set up a MUD/MOO server. If you can't afford a license for VMware, or don't have the resources to run it, it's still the better option. Me personally, I prefer a $20 VPS. but I'm not above installing something like this for a local dev environment, because let's be real here. Windows to Linux compatibility is a bitch.

2018-03-08 03:44:55

I have to say, I am aalso on the Cygwin bandwagon. WSL is a nice addition to newer versions of Windows, but Cygwin has been around much longer to fill the desire of running Unix and Unix-style applications on a Microsoft environment. Even MSYS can do quite a lot, even though it's main purpose is to build WIN32 apps in a MinGW environment. Also, with either one of these (cygwin or mingw/msys), if you're a C/C++ programmer, you can distribute applications with ease, without having to worry about the complexities of the Visual Studio IDE. Well, maybe that last statement is just an opinion. lol
BTW, you don't have to mess around with Cygwin's setup GUI installer. The setup also has command line parameters you can pass to it:
Example:
setup_x86.exe -P openssh -M
-P for package, and -M for quiet mode.

2018-03-08 07:23:46

I do also have a VPS, and yes, I can say winmoo is a fucking pile of dumpster turds on fire with rabbit piss sprinkled on top.

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2018-09-23 17:18:00

Hi guys.

i m trying to installl orca on windows subsystem within trying to use Kali, can you tell me how to ddownload and install it, i've tried apt_get, but didn't work.

can you point me to right direction for it?

i haven'T got mutch of experience with linux distros aside from using it on web servers.

2018-09-23 18:38:24

The Windows Subsystem for Linux is not intended for that. I'm not aware of any way to install Orca, but even if there was, you couldn't get it to work as the subsystem does not have any way to play audio. You probably don't need it anyway, it's a command line and that should be accessible to any screen reader.

Oh no! Somebody released the h key! Everybody run and hide!

2018-09-23 18:50:34

Thanks tfor the answer.

so an other question; let's say im gunna install Kali, do i need sight help or are there any premade auto run packs that i can run orca and let it go by myself?

2018-09-23 19:07:27

If you want to install Kali, just search for it in the Microsoft store and run it when it's installed. The setup process is fully accessible.

Oh no! Somebody released the h key! Everybody run and hide!

2018-09-23 20:15:36 (edited by ogomez92 2018-09-23 20:15:48)

oh wow this topic is so... I almost fell for it. I clicked and before I read was like no. You are bullshitting me. and idneed you are! We have been able to use Jaws and NVDA with linux terminals  for years.

good luck big_smile

ReferenceError: Signature is not defined.

2018-09-23 20:34:23

i've already did it, i was meaning for the Kali distro itself.

slender wrote:

If you want to install Kali, just search for it in the Microsoft store and run it when it's installed. The setup process is fully accessible.

2018-09-23 21:17:16

You don't install Kali from the command line, that's not how this works. Kali is installed already when you download it from the Microsoft Store, though the penetration testing tools that it's known for are not included by default and must be installed manually.

Oh no! Somebody released the h key! Everybody run and hide!

2018-09-25 14:54:24

Hi,
I just wanted to clarify things which showed up upon the first posts in this topic, regarding the difference between Cygwin and WSL.
If it comes to Cygwin, you are depending on some comparably unstable environment. Cygwin integrates quite heavily into your system (registry, a veeery large installation if you don't know how to prevent it from installing all the stuff you don't actually need), the launch time can be quite bad if there are many tools installed. Its advantage is that things like X do work quite well, but thats almost it. Cygwin only knows the Windows filesystem and is limited to that.
WSL isn't some Linux emulation, cannot be compared to VMs or whatever. WSL is an absolutely real Linux distribution, with a layer underneath which maps linux-related hardware stuff to their equivalent Windows counterparts. It doesn't yet know all the required Linux stuff, but it improves from Windows 10 upgrade to upgrade. That means that you can just use apt-get to do all the stuff like the real Linux distros can do, a thing cygwin doesn't yet know. There are helping hands like cyg-apt or apt-cyg which try to simulate an apt-get command for cygwin, but the don't really work at all. Also, repairing a broken WSL isn't any kind of problem, compared to repairing a broken cygwin environment. Its simply deleting the old linux distro, re-downloading it and installing it. Done.
The WSL also has some positive impacts on Windows 10 itself. The default notepad application from Windows 10 will know Windows and Unix line endings from Windows 10 1810 onwards, WSL can run Linux commands as well as Windows commands, which allows you to write sh scripts which combine the full force of Linux and Windows command line tools alike, without the need to compile some special stuff for Cygwin first instead of simply running apt-get for it or maybe even download a pre-compiled linux binary from the net.
Since Windows 1803 Linux daemons even continue running when closing the bash window, enabling you to run e.g. an ssh server on Windows machine, even though you can just use the WSL when connecting to it, but whatever. It almost replaced my Debian VM already, and it reduces the VM overhead regarding speed and performance drastically due to additional apps like VMWare Player, QEmu or Virtualbox no longer required to launch it.
Its not yet worth using in production environments and it still needs many improvements to fully integrate into the Windows environment, but its deffinetily a step into the right direction by Microsoft, they finally noticed that Linux actually is a thing for developers and native support for it is just amazing. I also like the idea more to have a distro running which gets developed by a community which can rely on a much larger user base than Cygwin has to offer.
People who are happy with Cygwin can stick with it for sure and as long as you don't have Windows 10 running you probably have no other choice than taking a VM as an alternative. But as soon as you got Windows 10 flying around, give WSL with e.g. Ubuntu a chance. Its faster, more elegant, an actually real linux and its not as easy to break as Cygwin is smile.
Best Regards.
Hijacker

2018-09-26 11:14:31 (edited by hadi.gsf 2018-09-26 11:16:47)

Pretty true about Cygwin. I really don't want to mess with that now that WSL is around. I remember Cygwin giving a bunch of   issues that i had to go around with. I never  found Cygwin appealing, and chose to run my linux distro on a VM.
running linux apps without any windows open is also a  pretty great example of legit wsl usage.
You can easily run things like icecast, the lounge, webservers, and even deploy ruby web  applications.
The reason that linux community is spewing shit on wsl is not the existence of Cygwin or virtual machine alternatives by the way. All the geeks that i've spoken too rather have linux  running as the main system and windows as a virtualized system inside. cause you know microsoft being  evil and windows 10  being a malware, controlling your hardware and stuff.

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