You are not logged in. Please login or register.
AudioGames.net Forum → Off-topic room → using spss with screen readers?
Hi everyone.
so I'm starting to use SPSS as a beginner, but nvda makes me disappointed as It reads nothing. I don't really know what to do, am using ibm SPSS 24 with the latest version of NVDA and I don't have a coppy of jaws or any other screen reader. Any recommendations?
hi,
Unfortunatly nvda won't work with spss. So, you need to obtain jaws somehow. I installed a copy just for this purpose.
Is SPSS the SPSS Statistics software package? If so, there are other alternatives, such as Wolfram Alpha (or for those who are interested) the R programming language, which has a sole purpose of assisting in statistical calculations.
The fact that alternatives are available, doesn't mean that they are accepted. When doing graduate work in linguistics, specificly in experemental linguistics fields, such as psycholinguistics, or neurolinguistics, the use of SPSS is a given, and is expected. There is no excuse for nvda to not give access to this package.
Let me ask you this, when you signed up for this course, or you were informed you'd need to take it, were you informed ahead of time about the requirements? Most likely this would be the case since you would have had to buy the textbook they use ahead of time. If not, this is something you will have to take up with your university, and if so, the responsibility is solely on you for not acquiring this package and testing it before your term began. If this were the case, you could have submitted an issue on Github about it and it may have been integrated.
Saying there's no excuse for NVDA not to provide access to it makes little sense because the team can't possibly see every potential outcome and what every user will need. This is just the way of things. I would recommend going on the NVAccess github and submitting a ticket about it.
Post 5 makes the point I'm trying to make. That's why I suggested the R programming language; yes, it's a programming language, so what? You don't need to use it to its fullest, but you can certainly use it for statistical and data analysis. Hell, github repositories like https://github.com/qinwf/awesome-R have resources for not only learning R, but for doing exactly what R was designed to do.
well sometimes for a course the requirements are such that you have to use what they say you have to use. It's a different thing then if you wanted to freelance. You don't always get to choose what tools you can use, university courses require certain things, certain jobs have their software that you must use to work there. Sometimes this leaves you in a bind because you might not be expecting it and now you have an accessibility nightmare on your hands, but sometimes it is known in advance what the requirements are and you can do your own testing before the term begins, and work with your disability director or dean of students to figure out a way around it. This is why you need to be aware of these types of things when you go to college / university, you need to learn to anticipate and be ready to solve problems before they have a chance to occur. Again, sometimes there's nothing that could have been done, but its always worth looking into what you could have done differently, and to try not to get caught up in the same predicament again.
Very true, Ironcross, very true. Happened with my textbooks last semester (my college delivers book lists a bit later than usual) and I was in a bind the hole semester; had to drop my math course, but picked it back up this semester and I've got all my books now so all is going wonderfully.
Why do people seem to assume we have the US system. Before claiming I have no excuse, don't assume we have the same system. The course syllabus is only available first week, and there is no such thing is a reading list, even though it exists on paper. Sometimes you don't even know the texts to be used until much later. I kept reminding my professors to put up the course outline on my university's online learning management system. So ssame holds true for programs. Also, don't assume I have so much free time in term that I can test every conceivable function of a software package. Finally, you just can't pick up a program and say ı'll use that. You have to use what your field requires of you to use, and which is accepted. I don't have the time, or inclination to learn a whole programing language while writing a master's thesis.
As for nvda, I quit creating github tickets a long time ago. They always tell me to contact the devs, who don't care. Same happened again when I raised the issue on the dev list. Considering that I was able to acquire jaws, I didn't want to deal with more hassle.
@st.mc it works somewhat with NVDA if you install the java access bridge. Note that you will need to install both the 32 and 64 bit java runtime environments, and activate both access bridges before it will work.
You can access all the tables and dialogs fine, but unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to access the statistical output.
I'm using this as part of a statistics course that teaches R, SAS and SPSS, so have been able to get away with imperfect access. I highly recommend R as a much more accessible alternative though.
I've suggested R as well. Yes, the graphical output isn't very accessible, but you get command-line output too. @9, I was not assuming that your situation was like mine might be in the US. Stop putting words in my mouth, would you?
@9 They told you on Github to contact devs? Can you give me such a ticket if it even exists because I do not believe such a thing will ever happen. By submitting tickets there, that is precisely what you are doing.
Ethin, your words implied as much, even if you didn't state it directly.
As for post 12, they told me to contact the developer of the software package, as they could provide the best fix. I seriously don't want the same automatic response.
Enes, the problem with that is that NVAccess is correct in this matter. It's not always the developers of NVDA who are at fault. That's like saying that it's NVAccess' fault for me not being able to use GTK applications, when it's clearly neither NVAccess' or Gnomes' fault, since GTK isn't designed to run on Windows anyway. I wish it was possible but it's not. If the developers are unwilling to provide a fix, or are unable to provide a fix, then theirs nothing you can do. Making a program accessible is usually not a one-sited issue where the developer(s) of the screen reader just make it happen; it's usually a two-sited issue where the developer(s) of the screen reader and the developer(s) of the app work together to expose, and take advantage of, the accessibility APIs provided by the operating system and by 3rd parties. There are, of course, those rare circumstances where the developer(s) of the app (or of the apps' GUI toolkit) expose accessibility aPIs, but the screen reader does not recognize those APIs, or does recognize them but is unable to interact with them; in those circumstances, it then becomes an issue between NVAccess and NVDA, or whatever screen reader your using. However, since SPSS is a Java package, it's not NVAccess' fault for not making the app accessible, nor is it IBM's fault; rather, its either your fault,for not following the appropriate procedures for enabling both the 32- and 64-bit JABs, or it's Oracles fault for breaking the JAB. I suspect, however, that the fault lies with you, and neither NVAccess, IBM, or Oracle, for failing to follow appropriate instructions and procedures for enabling the Java Access Bridge. I have written them below for a quick reference; try these, and I hope they work for you.
Download the 32-and 64-bit JREs at either http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ … 48532.html (version 9) or http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ … 33155.html (version 8). Alternatively, install the full 32-and 64-bit JDKs at
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ … 48520.html (version 9) or http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ … 33151.html (version 8).
If installing the JREs, simply install them as normal. If installing the JDKs, ensure that a public JRE for both are installed.
After the installation of both versions, open command prompt and navigate to the directories for both, and type 'jabswitch /enable', without the apostrophes. Once done, restart your screen reader and all should work fine. If not, continue to the next steps.
If SPSS is not immediately accessible, copy all the files listed for both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of either or both the JREs and JDKs at https://docs.oracle.com/javase/accessbr … /setup.htm to their appropriate directories.
HTH.
Edit: I just realized that the JDK version 9 is only provided in 64-bit. That probably means the JRE is as well.
@13 ah sorry, you were not very clear on that, but Ethin has explained it pretty well.
still, it is the fault of IBM, for not stating that java access bridge was required for the program to operate with screen readers. I didn't evne know it was java based.
@enes, Wikipedia can help you there. Technically, IBM should not need to state what was required to work with what. Nothing requires them to. I have offered alternatives on this topic and you have refused them; therefore, you're stuck with what we can help you out with. But I'm not going to go into debates about what a corporation is required to state or not.
well, like I said, you can't just pick up and use alternatives. Your field requires you to use specific programs, so you have to use them. This is a fact whether you choose to except it or not. Also, IBM should've stated that the package was java based, and that the accessibility bridge would be required for correct functioning. This is clearly malicious intent, you keep on trying to blame me for.
@18, malicious intent? On who's part? Mine? No. IBM's? No. IBM does not have to state anywhere that its written in anything. They don't have to state that anything is required to use it in special circumstances. No law requires them to do that. Nothing. SPSS is no doubt a closed-source product. Therefore, IBM can state as much details (or the lack thereof) about the product as they wish. You can make demands all day; you won't get anywhere with them though. Have fun with that...
@18 really?
AudioGames.net Forum → Off-topic room → using spss with screen readers?
Generated in 0.032 seconds (67% PHP - 33% DB) with 11 queries
