2018-02-16 14:52:03

Hello everybody.
Agree, our world is far from ideal. And I believe that everyone's task is to make this world better.
I decided to found a state that can do a lot for this world.
Look at yourself. When there were empires, the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, the world lived and developed. When everyone has separated from each other, see what's going on.
Already I conducted a survey, the people as a whole approved my idea. After a while I thought, and decided to add some details.
First of all about the name. It is difficult to find a suitable name. I took 4 languages, Latin, Italian, Spanish and Greek, and compiled a list of titles.
There are also a few more points. And since the opinion of the people is important for me, I decided to create a new poll.
I ask all to pass the survey, and also if possible to distribute it.
https://goo.gl/forms/mHNaLShUxRetHSaj2
Thank you.

2018-02-16 15:07:02

good idea indead, gunna check this thing out.

Abay chal.

2018-02-16 17:34:57

@post 1 sorry I'll probably be rude, so just tell me if I do
You said when there were the ottoman empire etc etc, the world lived and developed. Well, I don't agree on this.
I mean, there were wars even in the middle age, but there are wars even now. So I don't get why do you think we should unify the world? I don't want to be a dick, but how do you expect that things are going to be better if you do this thing? Who knows if those things are going to become worse.
As I said I'm sorry if I can appear rude smile

Paul

2018-02-16 18:14:54

Interesting that the three empires you mention were all heavy slave owning powers, and very keen on conquering their neighbors to exploit economically, indeed this is why so many powers eventually achieved independence from all of those nations, both economically and politically, ---- or do you think Mahatma Gahndi was wasting his time? Not to mention hannibal and Sparticus, not to mention the marmaluk bay rebellion in egypt and likely a lot of others against the Ottoman empire (I am not as familiar with Otterman history).

it's also interesting that the three powers you site  had military supremacy on their side, and a society based very heavily on competitive values and the very "rich/poor" divide you have decried in other topics.

I'm afraid the unfortunate truth is that we already! have exactly the sort of empire you are speaking of, It's not the roman empire, or the british empire, or any empire based on nationalism, it's the empire of the corporation?

don't believe me, look at the amount of political, economic and social power the super rich have, power which transends national boarders, and how those who maintain that power, e.g workers in third world countries or even in first world ones are treated.

the plane fact is humanity doesn't change at all, and will not change until we rethink our ideas about power, and how we treat people in our society.
But since that would actually require someone thinking! about things rather than everyone just grabbing selfishly after whatever economic, political or social power they can, that is not going to happen at all.


A united earth with everyone sharing equally and caring for each other Startrek style is a lovely vision, sadly humanity is, and always has been the wrong species to make it happen.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-02-16 18:19:56

Okay just taken the survey and to be honest I'm rather amused.
you talk of a "new empire" and yet all of the government options you mention, even the religious ones are precisely the same as what we've seen before, power is concentrated in either a hereditary monarchy, or an elected authority who are free to maintain their power via exactly the sort of corruption, cash throwing, political maneuvering, smeering and other shady tactics we see in politics all of the time.

I was at least hoping for some different or better method of government or distributing power, but obviously not.

Well I suppose it proves the old saying tru, "here is the new boss, same as the old boss!"

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-02-16 18:58:05

Everyone has their own eutopia and you can never satisfy everyone.
I don't believe in the wellfare state - the irony is I live in and depend heavily on just such a thing - though if I were in charge I would actually remove a lot of the wellfare even though it would negatively impact my life. I don't think that is progressive for a society. Money governs everything, so spending money on those who'll just throw it away is going to slow down progress. Now, I think everyone should be given as equal opertunity as possible - after all you can't decide where or who you are, you can only take whatever resources you have and expand on those, and everyone should have an equal draw of the resource pool ... no one should necessarily be fed more resorces just because they're losers who can't contribute back or expand - yepp, I have a very Darwinistic approach to society - let the strong, and smart survive while the week and foolish die out.
While it's true the empires mentioned here weren't the best socially speaking, they were the most innovative and technologically advanced at their time. And you can't make a comparason of the advancement rate today and back then as discovery will increase the rate at which we discover.
The attitude in this generation is frightening, with the attitude you can do anything - we're obsessed with fame ... and that's probably as a result of this you're special attitude. I say fuck that, you're just another useless piece of sperm unless you actually strive for something, and I mean really strive. Yet again I'm not saying I'm a good example, but ultimately it's better to focus our attention on those who want to make a positive impact rather than throwing our money down the well?

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2018-02-16 20:06:18

Heh, the romans? Yeah, I can totally see how the world developed while they were in power. Crusifictions, slavery, masakrering christians because they didn't believe in your gods, oh yeah and the whole expansion thing then the business where rome was burnt so nero could build his dormus aurea... yeah I'm really feeling the yutopia right now. The brittish? Oh yeh, you godda love your emperialism, invading other continents and putting the indiginous poppulation to work as slaves. Weren't they an advanced society when they decided to chain up a bunch of africans, lock them inside a rat infested slave ship, then transport them to america to work the cotten fields? Exterminating the native american population instead of trading with them and respecting their religion? I don't know much about the ottomans, but I do recall that particularly nasty bit of history where they chucked corpses over the walls of constantinople which were infected with the black death, so its people would get sick and die as well thus allowing them to take the city? Boy, those great empire's track records don't look so good now do they?

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2018-02-16 20:36:22

Actually they do. Like I said, the most technologically advanced for their time. Funny you mention the black death thing, as that was the first documented use of biological warfare.
You don't have to like it, but it still remains the fact they were superior to everyone else - and that's also why each of these empires managed to conqour an incredible amount of territory and amass insane wealth.

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2018-02-17 02:05:18

Hi Jonikster.
Even if this was a good idea, which it isn't, you can't make this happen on your own, no matter how hard you try. Human nature wil never allow anything like this to happen. Read up on psychology, you can't make everyone agree on everything all the time, unless you force them too, which has been done many times over the centuries.
I am a christian, and I know we can never be perfect, or have a perfect society, no matter how much we want this to happen. People want to seize money and power, and this will never change until the end. I'm not going to take the survey, because I can't take this seriously, and because it's not an idea which has been completely thought through. If you are very serious about this, become a politician, but eventually you will be corrupted in some way, like they always are.

Guitarman.
What has been created in the laws of nature holds true in the laws of magic as well. Where there is light, there is darkness,  and where there is life, there is also death.
Aerodyne: first of the wizard order

2018-02-17 10:59:43

@guitarman I think this survey is only ment as an interesting shortterm thing you can do, that's why it says new *virtual* state. I don't see a reason for not using a few minutes to take it, and for jonixter to simply announce the results here.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2018-02-18 05:33:18 (edited by Ethin 2018-02-18 05:34:26)

What Guitarman said -- this will never happen. Even if you had a million people to do it, it would still never happen. Hell, even if you had every person on the planet wanting to do it, it still would never happen; oh, it might get somewhere in the first few years, but someone is going to rise up and disrupt that order you've spent so many years creating. Someone, or many someones, are going to rise up against you and destroy you, and that will simply cause a trackback in time, and restore things to what they were before you even started. It's a never-ending loop. You best not trap yourself in it.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2018-02-18 08:47:54

Hello.
Think about it. I can hire an army from poor countries, it's quite real. I can conquer poor countries, thereby gaining more money and the army. After, I can think of other countries. I believe that Hitler could conquer the whole world if he bypassed Russia.

2018-02-18 10:11:10

well, have a think about that. If someone did it that way, would what was created really be true to its ideology? There's a difference between unifying all the world's nations in some sort of yutopian world state, filled with enlightened leaders and followers, which cares for the interests and well being of the people which will btw never happen, and of someone marching into neighboring nations, destroying infrastructure, killing thousands or millions of people to atain power, then exploiting the resources of the conquered lands to further your own gains and invade even larger areas. You say that hitler could have had the world, if he hadn't failed with russia. If you see a good side to this, I can't find it. Personally I wouldn't be that thrilled if he had obtained world supremmisy or at least control over a large part of it. It'd mean the death of millions of targetted population groups, jues, homosexuals, mentally impaired persons just to name some groups.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2018-02-18 11:18:49

@post 12, probably if hittler would conquer the world, you, me, and this community won't exist today, because he would kill us.

Paul

2018-02-18 13:46:10 (edited by flackers 2018-02-18 14:07:34)

@6, the trouble with that eugenics idea of let the strong and smart survive while leaving the weak to starve, is that it's not always that easy to tell what genetic material will prove useful many generations down the line. It's not so much a case of survival of the fittest meaning strongest, but fittest meaning most suitable. It's strength in diversity. Nature's greatest strength is in not having all its eggs in one basket. When dinosaurs roamed the Earth, who'd have thought an asteroid or comet would strike, they'd be wiped out, and these meek little furry things would grow up to be creatures potentially capable of transplanting life to another star system, and therefore survive the ultimate catastrophy: the death of the Sun.

2018-02-18 17:11:54

Yepp, Flackers. I was speaking figuratively. It's impossible to tell who's going to grow up and be a success to their society and who won't. There's a bigger picture as well because there's a plus and a minus in terms of contributions, they take some resorce and produce some, and what they produce makes them more or less desired based on what's available. For example great farmers back in the days didn't get legendary because there were so many producing crops and other farm products. Ok I don't know any legendary modern farmers ... but you get my point. I guess I could come up with a better example but I'm hungover lol.

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2018-02-18 17:54:35

@7::

The Dutch, Spanish, French and others did the exact same thing (imperialism and conquests), for instance the Spanish conquests with the conquistadors, and the African tribes willingly sold their own people into slavery for decades before the European colonial powers got there, in fact African tribes are still reported to sell off their own members today long after imperial powers collapsed.

What about...say....the US 'empire', that is committing the exat same imperialist acts as the British, or French or other European colonial powers? Also, I find it odd you single out the British when there's documented proof the other colonial powers were just as big into the slave trade, in fact some sources state it was American and Carribean (yeah a lot of them ended up in French or British or Dutch or Spanish controlled islands, not just the USA) land owners paying the captains for slaves, not the captains sailing down to Africa of their own accord and buying slaves.

Lasly, a lot of prisoners of various powers were dumped far away. Australia's the notorious one, but quite a few ended up in the Carribean, the thought was if they were out there they couldn't do much harm...look how that turned out...

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2018-02-19 01:00:24

Jonickster wrote:

Think about it. I can hire an army from poor countries, it's quite real. I can conquer poor countries, thereby gaining more money and the army. After, I can think of other countries. I believe that Hitler could conquer the whole world if he bypassed Russia.


So lets get this straight, you will have cheap disposable armies  recruited from poor countries and you wish to emulate Adolf Hitler as the start of this brave new world (pun definitely intended).

Is it me  or is there something seriously, amazingly and utterly wrong with this picture big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-02-19 21:10:05

Hmm, doesn't sound nice but psychologically there could be some benefit to being from one nation with the same customs, language and laws. I don't really want to expand on that idea, as my own brain hasn't even figured it out entirely yet and I'm still debating with myself ... history has shown cases of me both being right and wrong, but as usual there are so so so many factors into the equation. I'm at least not completely adversed to the idea of a super nation that gains control through military power.

On the other hand I don't think it'd be as easy as to just hire armies from poor countries ... but maybe it is? Lol I could wave my fist left or right and that's all that I'm doing, it's quite redundent. I'll get back to you when I've made up my mind and pulled my reasons together.

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2018-02-19 22:05:02

I think a utopia would be nice but its not like it is in the movies.
Everyone talks about the ai take over, so maybe this empire thing aint up to us anymore, and to be honest I wander if the machines would make a better job of it than we currently do seriously.
Votes, fuck it, elections, out the window!
The world is no longer votes but business, other countries china, russia may interfeer with us but its probably just business.
Others have their own agendas and all business.
Trump is one of the big guys and we thought having a single voice would be good, and in theory thats a good idea.
The issue with trump is that anything which is not to his liking is fake, all news is fake, everything else doesn't exist and he doesn't like just about everyone around him.
His temper lets him down a big deal.
There are rumors on some channels that there are places where they are training for the end when it comes.
Rumors are that trump launches the first nuke this year somewhare.
He says the fbi should focus on all the shootings rathan russia, and I do wander what he is hiding.
Does the guy in charge of the biggest company actually have full control of yhis own.
He is scared and covers things up, which means he probably doesn't, and maybe something is not good down below.
Becides that, its the problem of globalisation and capitalism, good to start off with but we are dependant on money, and the markets.
Machines you can hope don't become like us like that.
Scifi movies like the matrix excluded but if the machines want the world, I'd say have a crack, we repeat the same thing continuously so maybe we become slaves for a bit, maybe we don't, nothing can be worse than what we do to ourselves.
Back to the topic title, I wouldn't even try to make another state, most of the big governments, companies and spys are to busy fighting eachother we are nothing to the big corps.
Its true, they own our data, our private lives, our cash and our boddies but we mean nothing to them so they let us continue, get theri attention and stop them from their goal which is knocking the stuffing out of eachother and they will kill us.
Best leave well alone and survive as much as we can.
They let us know that they spy on us, but show no real interest.
We are fighting giants, but they see themselves as the threat usually, and not us.
In some way all these shootings and terror attacks are while a bit of an issue shielding us from the monsters.
To be blown up by a terrorist or shot by some mental maniac is bad enough but to be basically got rid of by one of the monsters well.
To be honest who knows what giants think.
I'd hate to get a big fist in my balls though.
The only other thing on our side is that unless you steal from them or something even if you tried they don't care enough to respond.
Even new zealand the country i live in is not imune.
We have our issues, but at least for now we have kept out of most of the wars at least for 50 years or so, and while we have the usual small to medium attacks, crimes, and shootings, but no one has tried of yet to attack us directly for any reason for a while now.
Hate to say this but maybe if the constatution was modified such that well no one should be armed bar well those that should we wouldn't have the issue.
Here the police have guns, and yes we can defend ourselves if we need to, we all have licences, but its not ok for well everyone to just carry their piece about.
Maybe when the us was yung you needed a gun everyone needed to be protected, but there are those that know this and can abuse this.
If everyone carries a gun, heck, soon it will be worse.
Maybe civilians should carry stun rifles or something about in case.
As I said not sure about the us but as they are now we havn't had to many issues, a few shootings true and hunting mishaps but nothing totally huge.
Ofcause its always a problem when your brother is a trump supporter.