2018-02-02 23:43:08

again, 110 is definately not reasonable, taking the average income into account. Also, note that the price of jaws, will get you a top maxed out iphone, or a core i7 pc, with like 512 gb of ssd, and a 4 gb video card. That is only speaking laptops. If we go to desktops, we get alot more kick ass pc.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2018-02-02 23:49:32

The thing is, opinions are fine, and people who don't want to buy a certain game, don't buy it, that's their business. It takes a certain amount of nerve though to come on here and say its not worth it. How isn't it worth it precisely? It may not be worth it to an individual, but that's subjective, others might think its worth it, and pay for it. Therefore, to come on here and make blanket statements like that just makes no sense.

So, its OK to crack word and math games, but its not OK to crack RPG's and such? That's the height of arbitrary. Anyone might have a list of genres and feel differently. Person B for instance, might think its OK to crack RPG's RTS's, and not to crack word or puzzle games.

Well, keep on doing it if you're gonna do it, but know you're only shooting yourself in the foot. Also, devs that come around here and see this are not apt to consider developing games for this community.

It's futile to try to convince those who are doing it not to, there's almost a fanatical attitude toward the practice, all we can do is work to dispel those that try to do it overtly here.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-02-03 00:25:20

hi.
Lol ethin, your latest post cleary shows that you never even spend one second thinking about the lives of people in Turkey and what the average income is.
Shit, you don't possibly know anything about that cuntry and how accessibility products are sold there, guess you just wanted to say something, just for no particular reason, not even looking into the matter further, sounds to me like that president of yours, but that's another storie and would be way off topic, even further than we are already now, Threadnapping anyone?
So, regarding jaws, I don't actually know how expensive that peace of software is over here, in germany, but when you start work, you can sign up for an accessible workplace, meaning your health insurance provider provides you with a jaws license, braille display, scanner, magnifier or what ever you signed up for.
it depends on the different health insurance providers on what you get due to contracts with the companys who develop screen reading technology or build accessibility products, so it's always a bit of a hastle to get everything you need.
Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2018-02-03 00:43:27

Yeah, sounds like the "america is the entire world" mindset. This reminds me of when your president called all african countries shitholes.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2018-02-03 01:20:41

Hi all.
Well, what to say.
I have been keeping out of the current arguments on here because they are heavy even for a small time pirate like me.
This is approaching nuke war level though.
As for different situations, well shit, there is that issue.
If there are give aways and such cool, maybe if I get spare cash I may try with a group, it would certainly pull the community together though I never understood the numbers game on ahc.
Now as to brain station I was going to buy it but now I wander if I should bother buying when I could try to play a game to buy it first, ofcause if I don't win I will buy it but playing a game to buy a game reminds me of some of the older games I played with friends.
To unlock each level of one flying game you would have to play a small game or a puzzle to confirm you owned the game.
And that was quite good for what it was and I enjoyed it a lot.
As for people affording stuff, the reason I spend my cash like I do is that I live at home, but once I leave, I'm going to have to really save, that means, I'm not going to get everything all the time like I do right now.
Thats life, a thing I will live with.
I object to the fact people think wanting things free means cracking them though.
As for a screen reader, would you leave your cane or guide dog at home.
It is a right for us to be able to enjoy life as much as we can and at least try to be as accessible as we can for our work.
I wouldn't say its an entitlement but things like canes, guide dogs, and in todays age, a screen reader, magnification, a phone or tablet of some sort, and a computer of some sort are needed.
In business, that is also ms office, windows, and sadly yucky norton which a lot of my friends use.
Right, Well while I wouldn't say you are entitled to get everything for free because you are blind it is your right as a blind person to get access where ever possible to have a full life and that that is protected.
If you break that down that could be a screen reader.
Sadly the low competitions in the industry is really low.
Because traditionally governments and accessibility organisations handled a lot of this for education purposes, the industry sort of came up to expect enterprise things.
Jaws for example is pritty much an enterprise product similar to say office pro pluss.
Its really for a business.
There are slightly cheaper products, supernova may be one of them window eyes well did both all were for enterprise companies.
So what has changed, well opensource and freeware and freedom of things have started to make those question the establishment.
So right now its opensource and cracking all the way but while thats a backlash from the users what really has to happen is the seperation of the business from the home user.
Jaws for what it does is good in its job, screen readers and access tools that use their own drivers for various things are still good I still use vary little now supernova for a few things.
However while office apps and business things are cool, things like net brousing, email, and home stuff are in my opinion secondary things.
Nvda relies fully on the os and its library and while there are a few things I still use other readers for the fact that 99.9% of every program has a web component is well where nvda handles well.
Even with this, and I am no expert, someone or a few more someones need to get either big enough to get competition moving or someone is going to have to make a move against vfo and its companies.
They are just to big for their own good, in fact bar dolphin they are basically the only big company in the braill and access business with a few smaller on the side.
Competition is non existant so you can  do what you want.
I would not be an advocate to get rid of compercial access programs like screenreaders, after all those expensive things do have a place in the business world.
When you are a home user like me, you may use office, for business related things, word processer, and spreadsheat.
You may use something else for email and web brousing.
You may game, and you most of all will play music, read books and the like.
For me while My testing job does need me to read documents on jarte, I spend 50% of my time on my web brouser and mail combined, 10% of the time in games and the rest on my music players of choice or on an on demand stream.
Lets face it, home users are not even conciddered here when it comes to their needs with some of this software.
The average home user can't afford a top of the line box, or the best car.
So we can't afford the top of the line screenreader.
Sadly, its not like we have much choice.
We have 3 readers.
1 is free and is fine.
Another dolphins one could be midrange its about 1000 dollars which while a bit steep is at least affordable if you update every 5 or so years.
Then we have jaws.
When I got that that was 3000 plus for jaws and a training package and an sma.
And when I had to upgrade to a pro version of windows that was another 2000 for no extra features to me the user.
You also have to pay for extra modules and scripts in some cases which again is fine if I was in a business, businesses have to pay module by module sometimes.
That model does not work for a home user though and this is the issue.
As for those that are thinking they are entitled to get everything for free what is everything.
Because I am blind I am entitled to, my rights.
Break that down and I am entitled to a job, will I get it, well what chance do others what are abled to have one and what are my chances due to speed and the like maybe slightly less but whatever.
I am entitled to enjoy my life as much as I can with limits.
I am entitled to accessibility.
There are groups so in my case a screen reader is something I am entitled to, a cane is something I am entitled to.
Just because I am entitled to everything doesn't mean I will get it.
Well if you are a kid the government gives you everything.
That continues through school, they ease off at highschool, and at university while you have assistance they ease off more.
If you then hit the business ladder you are helped a bit to.
That assumes ofcause you even get that far.
Even in new zealand, a western corruption free country where I can probably tick off most of my entitlements and rights off the list, I am still in the normal cue of life.
I fell into that trap before.
I expected to be handed things.
I had the same chance in the end as everyone else, I didn't make it though I tried.
In other countries depending where you are, say malasure, from reading a blind magazine, you certainly don't get everything on that list, in fact you get less, a lot less.
Even if you are entitled something for free doesn't mean you will get it.
And even if thats your right it still doesn't mean you get it.
You need to ask for it.
And even if you ask you may not get.
Then you need to ask, is it important to you and why.
There are ways say for a job or service that if you ask and don't get that if you think you should and arn't you can do something about it.
If its because everyone has it, then you may not actually need or want it a few seconds later.
I do think we need to start shutting this down.
It is clear that there are dissagreements in the forum and community, thats not going to change.
Thats in fact normal in any community, there are people I don't like in the community, that to will not change.
This thread is approaching world war 3 proportions.
So what will happen in the next few days is this.
Flame, flame, flame, a lot of people are banned.
Rules changed and suddenly it becomes worse for users not better.
Descussions like this, gone down the toilet.
A load of people bitch and moan and then leave.
More trouble later on and sooner or later it restarts.
This has been a good opener, it shows all devs what we feel but then, the big mega companies we are talking about have no interest in talking or listening to us users.
They certainly will not care about this place.
And they are to big for us to take on alone.
That may change at some point in the future as the industry gets bigger and better, but the time for end game isn't quite on us just yet.
And its fair to say that the users may not actually end them.
Eventually things will regulate themselves.
One thing before I go, your average user driven software package, free, opensource or low cost is probably developing faster than your comercial one, so for those that like me want to contribute to the big fight support those you use a lot.
And if one of the bigger companies needs support and feadback do that to, eventually they will listen, well most of them may.
As for the latter.
If you are in the position, either law wize or if you think you can get away for it, fight the system like I did.
But remember, getting caught is not an option and taking a big risk all the time is not an option.
As a teen fine but get past that and well.
You may find your sweet spot you may not.
Just remember that being bad all the time while a good first starter is not good in the long run.
I'd also at this point like to thank the moderators of this forum for keeping this thread as it is and letting users talk as users.
I have seen communitties either side with the big corperations or something else maybe themselves but hardly ever the users.
The reason a lot of this cracking goes on is that the users can feel at times that we as users have no voice and or no one is listening to us.
I will continue to lerk now.

2018-02-03 01:43:49 (edited by Ethin 2018-02-03 01:45:29)

@178-179, Oh, that wasn't the attitude I was exhibiting at all. Get off your high-horses -- your country has it's fair share of asshole-ish leaders as well, as does every country in existence. I was comparing two different prices of two different magnitudes. If your offended by a simple percentage calculation then you've got a serious, serious problem. I know that the minimum wage in turkey is 442.89 EUR, thank you very fucking much. JAWS is worth $1,495.00. That's 1,200.12 EUR. Don't come and bitch about how I know nothing about your country -- I just might. Of course, the minimum wage calculation excludes taxes, naturally. Grow the fuck up, both of you.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-02-03 02:04:44

Well, your post definitely came across as insulting and condescending.  Well, you might know that wage, in numbers, but you clearly don't understand the implications of it. If you think a person on a minimum wage, or even 6-8 times that, is going to be able to aford jaws, you are seriously out of touch with reality then.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2018-02-03 02:14:16

Well shit, quite the big mouth you have there when you can throw around numbers and calculations, interesting that you now found the time to invoke the services of google to well, google for the minimum wage in Turkey, wow, what and achievement you got there, gold fucking star for Ethin people.
But, you know, I don't know if you have noticed, but reality is not made out of 0's and 1's and is not ruled by the ISO, with your inteligence level, I guess you know what that is.
You never put the living costs of Turkey in your oh so perfect calculation, things like rent, food costs, transportation and what not, never even checked if all the people receive that minimum wage that you oh so gratefully googled for us.
Regarding your price calculation, did  it ever come to your mind that it might not be enough to calculate the dollar price of jaws into euros and than converting it into turkish Lira? You know, the price could be a completely different one, ever heard of inflation? No, did not? Look up Germany in the 20's, you will understand than.

I don't care if I get a warning or not, had to be said.
Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2018-02-03 03:28:55 (edited by Ethin 2018-02-03 03:29:48)

@183, well, I so apologize for not being Omnipotent. Give me a few billion years to accomplish that, please. Then I'll happily oblige you. Now,
Grow the fuck up and stop acting like a 2-year-old who's gotten offended because someone doesn't know something you do.
@182, I never said you always had to use JAWS. If I came off as condescending, I apologize. I never said you had to buy JAWS. In fact, I clearly stated that cracking a program that is so outrageously expensive was OK.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-02-03 04:25:53

Oh, now you are playing the, I know more than you card, while in fact my point was that you apparently didn't think about the points I have mensioned in my previous post.
But well, that would be everything from my side, I've got better things to do than read around this thread and trying to maked my point clear to a close minded beeing like you.
Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2018-02-03 05:15:48

@185, close-minded my ass. I wasn't playing that card at all, thank you very much. I was being sarcastic.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-02-03 06:33:38

Alright, now to attempt to calm this down before another one or two step into warning territory *they probably already have, but it's worth a try.* I am going to do my best to not jump on the flame wagon here and respond to some valid points.
@Ethin: As much as I obviously don't appreciate Simba's tone, I will agree with the fact that you do need to take the minimum wage calculations with a grain of salt, and consider the situation as a whole. Pain-in-the-ass currency exchange rates could genuinely be someone's downfall as far as affording things. Is the software you mentioned affordable? By that I mean Goldwave, Reaper and AHC? Absolutely, I've bought 2 of them. But are they affordable in all cases? Not if your country's exchange rates aren't in your favor.
Jaws opens up a whole other can of worms as that isn't meant to be afforded by individuals, as Sean rightfully put it.
Now, can we settle this, as one or two definite insults have already been hurled.

2018-02-03 06:58:20

Oi. This is devolving quickly.

Exchange rates do matter. It might not seem like that much extra, and in some circumstances, such as with an audio game, you could argue that it's not important. But it really is, when it seems like everything is out of reach to you. While I'm essentially just a bystander, I've seen the other side of the coin, as it were, and I truly feel for those who don't have access to things as readily as some of us do. It kind of makes me feel like a shitty person, even though I logically know it's not my fault. I don't mind civil discourse on this topic, and many people have managed to do just that, stating their opinions without being condescending. But some of the content of these last few posts is disappointing, and have demonstrated just why it isn't so easy to ask someone to buy you something. After all, who would want to risk possibly having minimum wages and statistics quoted at you as though it should be a safety blanket? If that were me, I'd be disgusted.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2018-02-03 07:38:01

187-188:
My original post, post.... 173, was simply outlining various points I've seen raised. It was Enes and Simba who decided to get all bitchy. Post 174 was quite civil, and I civilly responded. It was around post 178 where the true bitching started, for absolutely no reason at all. While I might've been a bit condescending, and while I might have quoted statistics and such, I was simply trying to make a point. If Simba and Enes hadn't decided that every word I had written was insulting in some way (which I truly did not intend), none of this bullshit would've happened.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-02-03 09:31:40

Few things here:

Some of the behaviour in the last couple dozen posts is pretty deplorable, just sayin'.

Sito, let's not pretend you weren't slagging BrainStation, because you absolutely were. You backpedalled pretty fast when Liam called you out, which is about the only halfway reasonable thing you've done on the topic.
If you don't think a game is worth buying, or you think a game is too expensive, here's a solution for you. You don't need to play or own the game. Don't crack it. Don't break your wallet in order to buy it. Don't encourage others to crack it. Trust me. If it really is a flop, or really is too expensive, the dev is going to figure that out sooner or later anyway. Cracking the game would just be spiteful, whereas, say, not playing/not purchasing the game sends a clear message that some part of the development process failed. Cracking will just make the dev think it's not worthwhile, but on the other hand, constructive feedback and such may actually convince the dev to rethink part of their strategy for next time.
And no, I'm not actually expecting BrainStation to have this issue, btw. It's very well made and has a host of different game types for everyone to enjoy. If puzzle games aren't your thing, well, wait till something more up your alley comes along I suppose.
Also, need I mention that Crazy Party would have a really tough time being a paid game in its current iteration, given how many hundreds of sounds it's borrowed from other paid media? And here, just to throw a little subjectivity in the pot: I probably wouldn't pay for Crazy Party. It's...really not my thing. That doesn't mean other people shouldn't, and it doesn't mean I'd crack it - I absolutely wouldn't - but I wouldn't be the first guy rushing out to buy it if it were made into a paid audio game, either.

Now, about this Turkey exchange rate thing:

There are two problems here. On one side, Ethin made some assumptions about affordability without data, and got kicked for it. Ethin, you had this coming, even if the insults got stupid. The insults you did not earn. But instead of backing things up with facts, guys, you basically just said "no, you're wrong, America sucks, this is typical"...which is pretty immature. I would actually be interested to see a few examples of cost of living vs. exchange rate in Turkey. I can probably look this up someplace if I have to. Me, ior instance...I get about eleven hundred dollars a month, pay approximately two hundred dollars a month for food (for me and my cat), and pay just over six hundred and fifty for rent on a decent one-bedroom apartment, which is actually reasonably cheap. I often pay out in a given month more than I make, by a little anyway. I'm kind of wondering how that might stack up in other countries...not because I don't believe the exchange rate is worse - I do believe it - but because I don't have comparisons. Providing them, if one of you good people is able to do so without any rancour, might actually go a ways toward demonstrating your point.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2018-02-03 10:47:04

@190, as I said, Jade, I meant no slight by my assumptions. I simply used the data that I had. It obviously was the wrong thing to do -- obviously certain people don't like my lack of knowledge, I guess...
I do agree with you that it was quite deplorable though. Honestly, it seems like they just "expected" me to know everything -- which I obviously didn't. And while I did use American things to make my point, and while I didn't take into account exchange rates, my point was still made, it's reception irrelevant. I'd think that they'd act more maturely about this, and calmly and rationally explain where I was wrong, but... guess all I can do is hope. As I said more than once: I meant no harm or slight by what I said when I was quoting stats and things. However -- and this is a big however -- I do not take an insult of my intelligence lightly, and, really, don't take an insult about my person lightly in general. If you do insult me, prepare for an interesting return shot. And I wasn't directing that point to anyone in particular, but this point is, again, well made. I'm sure that if I just came on here and said that someone was not intelligent or some such other thing that's stupid they'd get just as outraged towards me as I did, and would certainly be calling for my head. smile

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-02-03 20:40:18

It's interesting that JAWS being primarily a tool for the workplace got brought up. Here's an article from FS's new blog that talks about that somewhat.
http://blog.freedomscientific.com/exten … workplace/

2018-02-03 21:24:40

MODERATION!
@Ethin, simba and enes, if the three of you can't settle yourselves down as mature individuals, we will reserve no place on the forum for you!  Everything posted by you three starting with post 178 is something none of the moderators will let slip on this forum and you know it!  Lump it quick, or you'll be voicing your opinions and battling it out with no promise of ever returning to this site!

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.