2017-11-19 02:04:58

Hello everyone,

As I sit here trying to think up a Cosmic Rage profile and know what my character wants to do, I'm perplexed on if I should make my character this roll or not. Why? Space Combat.

My character would like to join the SDL, but a number of circumstances prevent him from doing so, the most obvious problem is me. However, I don't think it needs to be this way, and I'm not trying to make things convenient in any way, but these are real problems.

Fast fingers: I recognize that in most MUDs or MOOs, typing fast is a must. In space combat in these games, however, your typist skills can mean the difference between life and death. I think the major problem here is that, as a mission runner, for example, you're charged with both evading fire and dishing it out. This is the biggest issue I have a problem with. I'm fine with obviscation field of course.

When Vacus hatchers destroyed every drone I had, however, I wonder if me just moving a bit would've solved my almost one hit shutout knockout.

The question is, in manual mode, which direction to move in before enemy fire to make sure they're out of range. With 10 hatchers, however, that proved pretty impossible. Locking onto a target, moving toward it then typing ec to check the coordinates of the enemy every few seconds is any of those few secnds the enemy will target you and at least hit you.

I'm curious. What about having combat skill based, like everyone in Squidsoft's games that no one remembers, like Galaxy Web: Stellar Epoch. It didn't really have xp points, they weren't shown to us. We leveled up, but it's impossible to go to a shop. In GWSE, if you had the money, you could buy it. Period. I don't think you're restricted by levels, which was a welcome change.

In any case, how do you all handle space combat? Everything happens in a blast and I know people who can't have their speech read to them due to hearing loss.

Thoughts on this in general?
Thanks.

2017-11-19 06:46:51

hmm,cr combat,you just move as you can,but remember stay in range,you don't need lock coords.also get crew can complete mission easyly
about star conquest and miriani,the weapon fire have roundtime,so you just need to calc time,and keep flying,get less hit,stay in range,most weapons range are 1.
i say you want to move east,fire and repair your laser turret 2,first fly by type 6,when ship moving,the emeny at 3 3 4,type aim 3 3 4,wait ship stop,and you type the fly number begin moving again,when moving,type la,but do it faster as you can,because you must no rounttime when ship stop moving,next moving you type rep turret 2,if you still have enough time,you can fire again,this can repeat.
hope it help

2017-11-19 14:49:21

Star conquest I found combat literally impossible because of all the spammy information your computer was giving you, it was just not physically possible to get an enemy's location and then lock on before the dam thing moved, this is one reason I gave up entirely on that game.

With cr, I'm afraid I don't like combat either. It seems basically your best option is to put in a course and just move in one direction then keep hitting t for first target and firing your weapons, while all of the time your getting shot at. There doesn't seem much stratogy, it's just literally typing t 1 pha heavy (or whatever weapon), as fast as you can while the enemies pound away at you, since avoiding is practically impossible with too many of them, it also doesn't help that higher level weapons are literally impossible to get hold of, and the difficulty grade for enemy ships can go from slight to insane very quickly, the other day I took a mission against five dracas attack ships which I got through, but the next mission up against 10 droidic ship killed me in seconds and I was hauled into so many escape pods that the mud crashed.

I really wish space combat was a good bit slower and more based on actual avoidence and course changes than just typing fast and hoping your defenses stand up to what is getting thrown at you.

Still, hopefully Dardar will see this topic and respond since I'd appreciate getting his thoughts on this.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-11-19 18:36:23

always one of the biggest drags about these space moos was how their combat systems were at their core. It was all built around doing shit and doing that shit as fast as it is humanly possible to do. Jump about like a demented bee, regardless of the size of the ship you are in and shoot fast... Faster than that.  It really just makes combat the reserve of those who have the mind for omg fast fast fast, or those who have sub 150 ms pings. Now, would it really do harm to slow ship combat down? It would really give developers of these things much, much more room to innovate. Watch a space battle in any film and you'll most likely observe the following things: capital ships, destroyers and frigates and the like do not jump about like hyperactive children on speed. Their movements are much more calculated than that, They will move out of the way of oncoming fire, but they'll do it slower than a fighter. Big ships more often than not sit and take punishment, relying on their superior armor/shields/magic/ unicorn powered diversion fields to soak up or misdirect oncoming fire.  Short range combat is solly the job of the fighters that these things spit out in droves. These are usually filled with badass pilots/people with death wishes that'll fight it out in short range dogfights, sometimes breaking off to make a run on an enemy capital ship's sensors  or weaponry. They'll even go as far as attempting to board an enemy ship for the chance at a bit of internal sabotage. All this goes on while the big ships are constantly exchanging massive salvos, attempting to blow the other up. To date, no space moo I've ever played has attempted to replicate this, sticking doggedly to the model of jump about and shoot fast. This form of spacemoo combat has been about for years, why has noone really bothered to try something knew?

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2017-11-19 18:59:52

I've wanted to create a calculated combat system for a while. Have the difference between capital ships and fighter combat noticeable as well as enjoyable. I even considered having capital ships based on math and skill and fighters a little more like the combat systems at the core of these MOOs. The problem, I think, is not everybody has great maths skills, so something like this might prove a little more difficult.

Underworld Tech.
Accessibility from us, to you.
Visit us

2017-11-19 19:23:38

Thumbs up there exodus.
I don't think though that sort of system would be quite as difficult as Kile suggests.


First, simply slowing  the rate of  fire and increasing damage would make a pretty huge difference I think, as would making the deployment of defensive systems a bit more tactical, anyone remember how in startrek ships can't fire while cloaked, but the movement of cloaked ships could be determined by looking at the traile of where they have been?

For fast combat there could always be fighter combat working more like the way ground combat does, though with the proviso that you could buy drones or have auto targiting lasers if you were on your own.

It seems in cosmic rage at least, avoidance pretty much isn't an option, it's basically a case of how much punishment your defense systems can take vs how fast you can hit t, number and type weapon codes.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-11-19 19:41:25

@dark
After writing that post I decided to put pen to paper and flesh out what I had said, and its definitely doable.
The question really is are people willing to follow prompt instructions as in flying a capital ship etc? I've seen a lot of people complain at this.

Underworld Tech.
Accessibility from us, to you.
Visit us

2017-11-20 12:11:54

I'm not sure on the "prompt instructions" there Kyle. Flying a capital ship wouldn't necessarily have to mean following, it'd just be more a process of thinking slowly and taking into account information as opposed to just typing fast.

Hopefully though Dardar will comment on this topic since I'd appreciate his take on things.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-11-20 15:47:17

Bah, it ain't hard, sounds like whining to me, have a bit of trouble, so give up, that isn't what gaming is about, step it up. Show some huevos, or however you spell that.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2017-11-20 18:14:54

While I wish for more strategic combat, I'm afraid it would displease a lot of the players. I thought it's hard till I got to just mess with the weapons. Remember about scripts and aliases, too. Can't target fast enough? Take the target down message and make the script send t 1 to the mud. Weapons name too long? Make an alias

2017-11-20 20:08:51

@10, I agree there, weapons isn't too hard. add movement to the mix though.

2017-11-20 22:40:56

If we're talking about CR, again, make an alias that would set a course/put in speed. Still having problems? Wait till you get warp. Remember the weapons range as well.

2017-11-21 08:35:25

My problem isn't so much difficulty as the combat basicalloy being just fire and forget and not that interesting, since even if I were! taking time to move with number of enemies etc it'd be practically impossible to avoid, as every single mission or situation is based on you being outnumbered by enemies.

I can bang in a course and start flying, but then basically I'm just typing t 1 pha heav (or whatever weapon), and hoping my armour, shields etc stand up to the battering.

Any game that  scripting from it's players is not accessible out of the box, ie, a blind person is having to make efforts that a sighted person would not (one reason why star conquest will never get a db page unless the developers change their attitude), however with cosmic rage at least I don't think it's scripts that are the problem so much as the way combat is setup, since basically it's all a game of who has the biggest weapons and armour with no stratogy at all.

This is why  really like more strategic options, since it'd be great if there were ways to clear combat without getting hit (and not by relying entirely upon the obscure field), or for a smaller ship to have chance against a bigger one, or indeed against more enemies.

If the final battle from starwars a new hope occurred in cosmic rage style combat,  it wouldn't matter how much force Luke used, the death star  and  hoard of tie fighters do in him and all his rebellion buddies in short order because they simply do not have the armour or weapons to survive against it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-11-21 13:54:54

Hello everyone
First I am honestly a little honored people wanted to hear my thoughts on the subject, so thank you.
Cosmic Rage, as many of you know, recently ditched the old style of ground combat in favor of a more strategic unique setup.
It is my hope to do the same with space combat.
The current system is floored in many ways and we as in the other hosts and I have been tossing ideas around for a while.
One thing i will say, as a personal promise to each of you as individuals, is Cosmic Rage will have a unique space combat system and it will be one focussed around you. That is a promise
A mud is nothing without players, with out you. That's why at Cosmic Rage we care about you
It WILL be done

Nathan Smith
Managing Director of Nathan Tech
It's not disability
It's ability!

2017-11-21 14:03:37

Hi Dardar.

I'll be looking forward to this, I'm definitely liking the new ground combat system thus far and would be entirely behind a new space combat system too, so I'll be interested to see what you come up with there.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-11-22 11:42:25

hi Nathan, John Smith from cr here. nope I don't mind people knowing who I am in rl. anyway to business.

the 1 thing I would like to see in space combat is distants between you and the target play a part. for example, if plasma missiles travel at a speed of 10 galactic units per second, if your target is 10 units away then it should take 10 seconds to travel to target assuming it's not moving and hit the target. by travel time I'm not talking about roundtime that would be impractical. especially if you are shooting something at extreme weapons range. but distants should play a part in combat. equally for more energy based weapons they should perhaps pack less of a punch at more longer ranges.

2017-11-22 18:26:51

16, do that and the combat is gonna be a nightmare assuming that a target stays still. Add movement and it's gonna be hell. You'd be forced to team up even more then now. That or write more scripts. Add on top you firing weapons, locking onto a target, yeah. There is a good chants of you missing the message that you've been shot at entirely.

2017-11-22 18:34:18

but that's what combat is though. you'd never see static combat in a mainstream game.

2017-11-24 03:50:00

You know, I second what some have said here. I never thought about how silly combat really is in those space games. A giant battlecruiser shouldn't be nearly as maneuverable as a fighter, yet they bounce around just like any smaller ship would! That's something. I do hope they come up with a better system for cosmic. I actually haven't played since the ground combat was changed so should probably do that to see what's new there. Stun rifles anyone? lol

2017-11-24 13:02:05

this is the thing, acceleration and deceleration should be different depending on type of vestle. ok a ship still may be able to reach warp 15 but a fighter should be able to get from 0 to 15 far quicker than a larger ship. also included in that equasion should be the load the vestle is carrying.

2017-11-24 14:28:09

Miriani combat is kind of terrible mostly because they seem to despise soundpacks for some unknown reason so my mush pack always just throws script arrors constantly to the point it made even simply locking to a set of coordinates and firing a nightmare.  I never did much deep space cosmic rage combat, but their ground combat was pretty cool.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.