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This is still in beta and is not public released, but I wanted to share this with you guys.  THis is a drum VST called Addictive Drums 2 by XLN AUdio.   When I had my vision, I always recorded with drum VST's because they sound so amazing, and was able to trigger them with my electronic Roland TD drum kits.  Well, when I lost my sight, I lost the ability to use the VST I was using, and there are no drum VST's that are accessible, that are good...


...until ow...

This is a demonstration of a beta that we're working on.  It's right now loaded inside of Sonar X3 Producer, which is accessible (See my other thread), and I'm able to do a lot of the basic stuff, like midi mapping, preset selection, changing out kit pieces,  assigning  track outputs, etc.  There's still a lot to do, but this will definitely be a great start and  progress from what it once was, nothing.


This software initially had zero keyboard shortcuts, but now uses the arrow keys, tab, shift, and the enter keys to control the software.

We are using NVDA and making it work with OCR.   It is going to be part of my SIBIAC add-on, but we may make it it's own add-on as well.   This allows us to work in the framework they created the software with, and we're doing everything we can to make it as accessible as possible, but this is definitely a good start.

Check it out: https://youtu.be/myJ8xburS2g

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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Hey, great work!
I always wanted to have an accessible  drum vst so i could have more control over my backingtracks when practicing electric guitar.
Also has the new sonar  versions become accessible?

John Petrucci Fan all the time.
twitter: @hadirezae3
skype ID: hadi.gsf7

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please tell me this will be usable with reaper and osara. People don't really use sonar anymore, and as far as I know it only works with JAWS with a payed script which means payed JAWS. Reaper has an option to pass all keyboard input to the plugin, but once I do that, I don't know how to get back out of it. Maybe this could be a feature to add so it would disable the keyboard pass if I press a certain keyboard shortcut.

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Colton

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Sonar X3 and Platinum are now accessible.   This works with NVDA and we've tested it in Sonar, but we aren't sure if it's fully accessible with other applications   My setup is SOnar X3 with Addictive Drums 2.    We're working to make it standalone, as well.

I have another thread that talks about Sonar being acessible, along with several VST's including this one, now,  addictive Keys is in the works, and I also have Guitar Rig, Absynth, and the Session Instruments, and some of the other VST2 applications like Sound Center, Dimension Pro, Session Drummer, and a few others.  All DFX plugins are accessible, and we have also implemented precision tuning of parameters. 

ANd it's accessible using Microsoft SAPI5 and any gamepad you own,  or an X Touch Compact controller surface.   So basically, you don't even need a screen reader, technically, to use SOnar X3 or Platinum, since Windows 7 and above has SAPI5 installed.  OF course you will have one to help you through dialog boxes, but otherwise see my other thread for that.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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5 (edited by nyanchan 2017-08-12 04:40:19)

OK, are you internally using OCR to determine where to click in the VSTI window? If that's the case, I guess it works with Reaper as well since the screen drawing is entirely done by plugin side and there is no difference between the host applications.
I'm really excited with this because the approach is completely new. People used to create auto hotkey scripts and probably hardcoded the mouse position. Although I've heard that there is some image matching or recognition functionality in Autohotkey, I can't think that every script creator are using such a difficult thing because they have to extract the image data to match before implementing it.

I really tend to miss direct messages. If you want to contact me privately, please send an email instead of a direct message.

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6

I'd love to have a go at a TD type drumkit. I've looked at them a few times, but the expense, all the extra bits you need such as stands etc, and the fact that I didn't know how hard it would be to set up and whether the module would have accessibility issues that would stop me from accessing a drum sampler, all made me chicken out. It also seemed you pay quite a bit for the module, but as a blind player, you're not really going to use the on-board kits, and instead just hook up to a drum sampler like superior or addictive. I always wished there were electric kit pieces you could just hook up to your PC without needing a module.

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I love Addictive Drums! Drum sections on some of my songs from my latest album were produced with this plugin, so glad to know that it's accessible, however, I'd love to see it working with combination Reaper/OSARA/NVDA too.

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8 (edited by G-Rad 2017-08-12 15:58:02)

I use a TD-15 module,  with a custom DIY a2e conversion that I built  after I lost my vision.  IT's my 2nd A2E kit, and it's not that hard to do, really.    The trick though is getting the pad settings right for them, and that may require sighted assistance, however, if you buy a prefabricated kit, like a complete Roland TD-Whatever kit complete with pads, then you can simply plug and play into the VST.   

I use a TD-15 for it's simplicity, since it has what are called VEX packs on it, which are professionally modeled kits that use the onboard sounds to  simulate drummers, drumkits, etc etc.    I am currently selling my setup and going to a TD-30.
I know very little on how this whole thing works, I just know the programmer that is helping me does somethign with mouse moving emulation with keyboard shortcuts, and commands.  Then he does something that uses  visual text and has the screen reader read it to me with OCR somehow, but not  like you'd normally use it.   However, it's application specific, largely because  there are multiple applications within this one we're creating. all for SOnar and some will be standalone.

EDIT:

Once we get this working like we can for this application and at least making it universally standalone, then we're actually going to do another version intercepting trhe framework with an actual script.  As of right now, the installer, it'sself is not accessible at all.   This plugin setup is working with NVDA.  I don't have Reaper, never liked it every time I tried it with vision, so I don't know what it's capible of or anything.  IF I can get Reaper, I can definitely make a test trial of it and make it work with Reaper as well. 

The only reason I went with Sonar X3, is because it's the software DAW I was using long before I lost my vision, and after having lost my vision, I didn't want to spend the money for Jaws, Caketalking, and then downgrade my PC and Sonar, so I came up with this solution that I have created to work with Sonar and it works with virtually all versions of Sonar and is more flexible than Caketalking in some aspects, but not so much in others.     In my video tutorial series, you'll see that I have implemented some custom features like precision  parameter control,  plugin control  custom mapping and quick access, and the best part is the itegrated help function which will make anyone's work flow much easier.

Basically, my Sonar setup (which is free to use for anyone with SOnar X3 or Platinum) is one of the only DAW setups that allow you to use a physical control surface and still get speech feedback.

The X-Touch Compact I use has 9 faders, 16 encoders ad a ton of buttons, all mapped out to do what they are intended and definitely make  the work flow much easier to deal with.   As mentioned, see my other thread about it.


Anyways back on track.   This  setup for AD2 is still in beta, we have a few bugs to work out.  We're also tossing around the idea of making the interface accessible with a gamepad, but we have no idea how that will turn out, but the proof of concept has been conceived.  That's what I did to initially control Sonar before I got my X-Touch Compact.

AD2 comes packaged with Sonar Platinum and I'm not sure what other editions, but I do know that they are including it with some of their packages.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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9

Hi.
[wow] it sounds amazing. Just one question: People are saying on other forums that the drum kit works both in Reaper 4 and 5 and Logic as well. So where comes the accessible part? Is the kit not accessible if you load it into the other already accessible programs?

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

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10

according to him, that is the case. The accessibility scripts are only built for sonar, or standalone. Who the fuck uses standalone vst's? Something needs to be made for reaper, and logic. People aren't going to learn a new daw just to use one plugin that already half works on their host.

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Colton

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Where can I read about it eing accessible for the blind using Logic and Reaper?   Are you able to have full control over kit piece parameters and midi note mapping?  Im not here to compete with anyone, I'm just trying to help by working with what I have and yeah even though I'm working within Sonar, I do plan to make this work with other applications  including Pro Tools, Reaper, and Logic.   I also plan to attack Pro Tools and see if we can make it accessible like we did with Sonar X3 and Platinum.   Just cdon't know when.


Using it stand alone is not uncommon in the v drums community.  I even used to do it all the time with Superior Drummer 2, however, when I lost my vision, I lost that ability.  I use it in environments where I play an electronic kit live and want to use acoustic sounds.  Very handy in small venues and what not.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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12

Alesis makes what's called an Alesis Trigger I/O which essentially alets you connect pads to the computer through a USB interface,
it's far cheaper than a Roland module.  My first module was a TD-3 and  it was probably the easiest module to work with.
  Very basic though, just a 5 piece with two cymbals and a dual zone ride and hat.   


A Roland HD series kit  is a plug and play solution for stuff like what you mentioned, it has the basic of basics like just a crash,
ride,  and a 5 piece with hats as well.   compact  and not expandable at all, I don't think, but  definitely wiol. get your foot in the door.

With AD2, to trigger, you have to be able to change midi notes and the whole mapping  preset, which they have presets for Rolamd modules but without the aux  mapped properly, however, with this  project, you can nidividually map pieces,
so you can trigger stuff on the drum rims as well.  I have all intentions of using this as not just a drum loop or sampler,
but in live environments again.  I love my DW's but sometimes, they just don't work in  some venues, haha.   

flackers wrote:

I'd love to have a go at a TD type drumkit. I've looked at them a few times, but the expense, all the extra bits you need such as stands etc, and the fact that I didn't know how hard it would be to set up and whether the module would have accessibility issues that would stop me from accessing a drum sampler, all made me chicken out. It also seemed you pay quite a bit for the module, but as a blind player, you're not really going to use the on-board kits, and instead just hook up to a drum sampler like superior or addictive. I always wished there were electric kit pieces you could just hook up to your PC without needing a module.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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Hi g-rat.
Here you have a ton of materials for both Logic, Garageband and Reaper. Please note that this is mostly for the Mac, but Reaper is indeed very accessible in Windows as well:
http://www.icanworkthisthing.com/docs/m … ndex.shtml
On this site you have a lot of different content.
More Reaper stuff:
http://audio.pizza
This site have lots of great podcasts about Reaper.
https://github.com/nvaccess/osara
This is the plugin which makes Reaper accessible both for Mac and Windows. On this site, you should navigate to the heading which contains the readme. There you have a ton of content to read through, including accessibility for midi.
As you might know, none of those programs makes inaccessible VST plugins accessible. Therefore my previous question about the accessibility in the project you're working on.

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

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14

Thanks, I'll check out that alesis thing. I am happy to invest in good quality pads, just I couldn't help noticing the good Roland pads come with a module that often costs a grand on its own, which I would only be using as an interface for the pads, so it feels a bit wasteful. And the good thing about the alesis thing if it works with good pads is that it would allow me to just start with a few basic pieces like kick snare hat and ride to see how I take to e-drums.
The thing I've always had trouble with playing drums on a keyboard is that not being a good keyboard player, I have a hard time playing convincing fills.

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Yeah, a lot of drummers that would rather use VST's  use those instead of modules, and you can get a decent Roland TD-11 or TD 15 for about 400 bucks.  I am actually going to be selling mine soon to upgrade to a TD-30 or a TD-50, unles the Pearl Mimic Pro is accessible v ia OSC client, but I'm waiting to hear back on that.

flackers wrote:

Thanks, I'll check out that alesis thing. I am happy to invest in good quality pads, just I couldn't help noticing the good Roland pads come with a module that often costs a grand on its own, which I would only be using as an interface for the pads, so it feels a bit wasteful. And the good thing about the alesis thing if it works with good pads is that it would allow me to just start with a few basic pieces like kick snare hat and ride to see how I take to e-drums.
The thing I've always had trouble with playing drums on a keyboard is that not being a good keyboard player, I have a hard time playing convincing fills.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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Well I posted a video showing the concept in beta form and we've made progress.  This would actually allow you to internally control the VST parameters through the keyboard, since the plug in is strictly GUI based or all graphics.  There are some dialog boxes however to click on the  boxes, it's a graphic image.     My plugin will allow you to control  all parameters of the VST with speech feedback.    Accessing the VST and making it just work to play presets  is definitely nice, however I like knowing that I can change out specific things like the toms, cymbals, add effects, and layer them.  ALso, being able to export each drum to it's own track and adjusting parameters that way and being able to add external effects in Reaper or Sonar or whatever Daw of choice.   Drum VST's like this have no keyboard shortcuts, but we're implementing them so that way  it's easier for users to navigate.  We're also  going to be able to control, say, the pitch and tone of each selected kit piece.   Basically, it will give you in-depth control of the setup, if this makes any sense, and if I am unable to answer your question, I'm sorry, but that may be because I'm missing something.

I looked into the Reaper documentation  for use with Ozara, and I can only see one use for it, that I'd pick to rewire into Sonar Platinum, and that'd be the Midi section.  Also,  Reaper does not let you use a control surface with accessibility, EG:
Behringer X-Touch compact or Mackie MCU Pro, etc.    It's nice to know that this works well for Mac users, since eventually I do want to switch to a Mac, however, I am not sure  of anything regarding  programming scripts for Mac users, since I never owned a mac in my life.  well, except my iPhone, haha.  I am not opposed to using Reaper though or at least trying it, but I do love using my control surface, and the fact I can use an Xbox 360 as a wireless DAW controller.  My plugins and presets that are being programmed are free to download and use, and I will  definitely do my best to help those who use Reaper, since I want to be able to cover as much area and range as possible.

The  control for AD2 is a NVDA add-on we call SIBIAC which is short sor Single Image Blob Interface Accessible COntrol, and whtihn it, I have programmed to control Guitar RIg 5, Absynth5 and the listed VST's and  as mentioned will be adding this, and Addictive Keys, and  the Native Instruments  plugins are  working in standalone.  I may isolate AD2 and make it it's own add-on  however I'm not sure which route this will all go since  it's still being worked on.    Of course I'm having help with visual aid  making all this work, but I am doing my best.

SLJ wrote:

Hi g-rat.
Here you have a ton of materials for both Logic, Garageband and Reaper. Please note that this is mostly for the Mac, but Reaper is indeed very accessible in Windows as well:
http://www.icanworkthisthing.com/docs/m … ndex.shtml
On this site you have a lot of different content.
More Reaper stuff:
http://audio.pizza
This site have lots of great podcasts about Reaper.
https://github.com/nvaccess/osara
This is the plugin which makes Reaper accessible both for Mac and Windows. On this site, you should navigate to the heading which contains the readme. There you have a ton of content to read through, including accessibility for midi.
As you might know, none of those programs makes inaccessible VST plugins accessible. Therefore my previous question about the accessibility in the project you're working on.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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17

Thanks a lot for your reply g-rad. It makes sense. Making the plugins accessible sounds fantastic.

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

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18

Just a quick note to ask those who want to use this product, please provide the DAW you use and we will implement it to work  for your setup once the product is presentable.

Right now I have Sonar X3, Sonar Platinum, Sonar 8.5.3 and Reaper. 

Basically I want to get a list of accessible DAW's that  people would use so we can do our best to make this project work as extensively as possible.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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19

Hi.
As i know samplitude becomes accessible. I saw few tutorials how to use this DAW so good idea will be make it accessible for this soft.

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I never tried Samplitude.  Is that a DAW?  We want this program to be as universally accessible as possible, so thank you.  Right now, we're  giving our brains a rest on it.   Programming  some shortcut keys into the VST for the screen reader, NVDA, so that way  we won't have to tab through a cluster of different things.

Recording artist [ a-t ] Bass Mekanik Records.  Albums available on iTunes.
Drummer [ a-t ] Jaden Farnsworth Band
http://www.youtube.com/dwrhythm

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21

Hi. What about this project?

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Hi. I am the developer of tools mentioned by G-Rad. There is no progress for the moment, but let me explain the situation.
I am pro software developer, but this project is not my work. And that is not the only project on-going and some other are pending. So I advance in everything, but in steps and slow.
Some time ago, helping G-Rad to sort everything, including the DAW, the controller and plug-ins, had top priority for me. And helping him is still hi priority, when required.  But I care a bit less about the rest of the world in general, I hope that does not sound harsh. There are some concrete people which ask me to solve particular problems and I do what I can. When there is no urgent tasks, I advance some big project from my list. And here is the list:
1. universal control surface integration with Sonar. It does not target accessibility by itself, but it allows to build presets which make Sonar accessible and especially make hardware surfaces speak the text adopted for particular controller but using complete DAW information. The result is not the same as generic accessibility mode, what is pressed or turned on the device is taken into account and hardware controls can be configured to audition specially composed information. That is what G-Rad is using for X-Touch and Gamepad, which virtually make Sonar accessible, without extra accessibility module in the screen reader. All that is rather stable, but at the moment I advance the platform itself, unrelated to accessibility.
2. simple accessible OSC controller for Windows. That was pilot project. It can control RME TotalMix, so all parameters for many RME interfaces. It is waiting improvements in functionality, such as shortcuts support instead of tree navigation and Behringer XAir mixers layout. I have ordered XAir for other purpose at work, so once it is there I can start to update the OSC controller
3. SIBIAC as a concept. It is far more then just calling OCR. It tries to reconstruct accessibility information from the picture of the interface, so it should detect which dialogs are open, which tab is selected, which variation of the control set is on screen in case the dialog is dynamic, the position of graphic only controls like sliders, the situation with scrolling in lists and so on. At the very end, when everything is recognized and understood, then OSC is called for particular screen region to audition the text.
With that project I proceed case by case. I still have close to zero knowledge in NVDA and in practice use SIBIAC as complete replacement of it for particular window. Proper implementation should be another type of accessibility provider, so in addition to IAccessible and UAC. But that is harder for me at the moment.
4. Addictive Drums layout for SIBIAC. AD is very complex at some places dynamic interface, with 100s of parameters, heavy graphic loaded. Some parts are graphic only, f.e. HPF and LPF parameters on EQ, which can only be controlled by drawing with mouse, the whole MIDI section which works with DAW by drag and drop. I have success with almost everything, except mentioned extra hard points. The next step is a bit beautify the code, to make it work in standalone. And make the installer accessible, it has tricky dynamic lists and other not trivial parts. Note that when plug-in is loaded into particular DAW, the top window is not the plug-in by the DAW plug-in wrapper. So to make it work let say in Reaper, Reaper aware code is required. That is obviously the simplest part of the whole thing, but without this part the module does not work out of the box. I will advice with that once I have time.
5. Accessibility unrelated, but I want extend my Windows OSC client to be graphical. For that I need graphic library, and for several reasons i have not found any toolkit I would like to use. I mean I write my own, and that is also not trivial nor short task.

Final notes:
I do not have Mac and I do not plan to buy any. So everything I do is Windows only. Physically I always have Linux booted, but NVDA and AD work inside virtual machine.
What I have done so far was and is public and available on my site www.azslow.com. Not everything is open source, but everything is free to use. Obviously NVDA related staff, including SIBIAC, is open source.
Comments, thoughts and any help with concepts, operations, NVDA, etc. are welcome. The only driving force of all these projects is the confirmation someone really need it. I personally only need a small subset of that, when jamming alone without monitor in the near. At the same time that can be the point of much broader interest, not everyone who can use monitor want to have it in the near when playing music. Also most plug-ins do not allow comfortably operate them from MIDI controllers, I mean SIBIAC concept can make such binding possible even when used without OCR component.

And the last. Cakewalk has declared the end of life. I am looking new DAW for me and G-Rad. I have already understood that Reaper is possible alternative. But may be there are other options.

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