2017-10-16 21:57:17

sorressean wrote:

How exactly do you know he's under no authority? Have you read the rules, and the logs, or did you just agree with the OP and move along?

I don't have to read the rules, I can just read the title of the game to find out that it's supposed to be about forming an empire and conquering others. The admins made the game like that, and they have to conform to their own rules too. It wouldn't exactly be fair if the admins didn't have to abide by their own rules but the users do. And yes, I did just agree with the OP, because I've known him now for almost a year. Had I not known who he is, I would probably have looked into the situation more thoroughly, but because I know him well enough, I don't have to. As for the logs, which 1s are you talking about? There's only 1, the 1 he posted.

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2017-10-16 22:24:15 (edited by Orko 2017-10-17 15:27:50)

Isn't it interesting that no matter how right or wrong the player is, there will always be somebody that decides that the admins are gods and can do no wrong, and that the player is an idiot and can't do anything right, or vice versa.

2017-10-16 23:15:58 (edited by JLove 2017-10-16 23:22:55)

Ok, I actually did take the time to read the log related to this.  Here is my opinion.
I have not read the actual rules of the game, but these three lines are concerning to me:
Khufu tells you, 'And what if the game admin asks you to leave the empire alone for a while to let things cool down after you were harassing them?'
You tell Khufu, 'I did leave them alone.'
Khufu tells you, 'You literally declared war on them.'
This clearly indicates that Khufu believes that declaring war repeatedly is harassment.  If the rules provide no restrictions on war as to how long between engagements must pass before war can be declared again, it seems interesting (as well as logically flawed) to me that an admin can say that declaring war on an empire repeatedly is harassment, or bullying, as is indicated here:
Khufu tells you, 'I forced you to end the war and shut off the unilateral war option because it's obviously a more immediate issue than I realized. I told you explicitly that I thought what you were doing is harassment and in violation of the rules.'
Again, if the rules do not place any restrictions on war, or do not state that repeatedly declaring war on another empire is harassment, then how can the admin then contend that doing something not laid out in rules is somehow breaking them?  If the admin does not like that empires can declare war as much as they please, they can either clearly set time restriction and clear-cut boundaries within the rules, change the code so that those restrictions are put into place, or both.  Personally, I see no reason to intervene simply because war has been declared upon another empire, even if it has been done repeatedly, as long as there are no restrictions set forth in the rules, and as long as any restrictions that were, indeed, set forth in the rules were not disobeyed.  Any land acquisition that does not occur through purchase or trade of some kind occurs through war.  This is just common sense, and if the admin was familiar with history at all, that fact should not be difficult to understand.
As for bullying, I am unable to agree with the admin's definition of the word "bullying, as indicated here:
Khufu tells you, 'What you keep telling me is this would have ended peacefully if they had capitulated to your bullying. You literally built on top of their roads and then demanded they give them to you? That's bullying.'
Usually, before war is declared, when there is a dispute over land that is most likely going to involve combat, the party attempting to acquire said land will begin to place troops, encroach on the land, etc.  This does not rise to the level of "bullying" in my opinion; instead, this seems to be a common evolutionary step in this sort of conflict.  Moreover, an offer of settlement was presented to the empire:
They could always just appease me by losing those roads. That is honestly the easiest way out for them now. Get rid of the roads in my capital boundaries, and I will not declare war on them again.'
The empire chose to refuse that offer, which they have every right to do.  However, the other empire has the right to proceed accordingly.  When negotiation fails, combat most likely will follow.  Again, common sense, and I fail to see how that can be construed as bullying.
Bullying in my opinion would be if players were deliberately fighting newbies simply for the pleasure of destroying them, taking advantage of a lack of knowledge of game mechanics, threatening players with actions not permitted by rules, flaming other players, using racial slurs against other players, etc.
It is my opinion that if the admin of this game does not wish to allow conflict or combat, then he/she needs to remove it from the code, and the aim of the game needs to be modified and re-advertised as something other than PVP.  It's that simple.

2017-10-17 00:09:35

Bullying would be the US sending it's batallion of fighters, bombers, destroyers and other naval warfare machines to North Korea and nuking the blazes out of it!  Right now!  With no warning!
lol Ok, seriously, I think post 28 pretty much rosted and tosted any opposition the administrative team and its possy might have had.  This is one of those situations where, much like Orko I have to agree with the original poster.  If you have a game that clearly details and advertises the idea of conquest it should not by any degree favor one set of players over others, even if they themselves are working on the game as pointed out by post 5.  This is clearly a power trip; nothing more, nothing less.  A player was wronged by an admin who intervened on behalf of a mud builder and his empire rather than allowing the two sides to settle the matter as it should have been settled, in the game, through its mechanics, by battling it out until one side was victorious.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2017-10-17 15:11:01

I can't speak on the initial situation, but I will say I have had my own bad experience of the empire mud admins which is one reason I've not been back to the game despite the crafting and such sounding really interesting.
this was when I was starting, spent literally two hours wandering the map trying to find a free space for my empire and asked for help, when I received none I asked if there was something I was missing in the rules since it seemed odd that the game had no way of finding space, whereupon the admin gave me a private communication and quite severely told me off for complaining about the game on public channels.

not the sort of newbie experience that encourages me to play more of the game.
In  fairness this was with version 1 of the game which didn't have a newbie island and had a much smaller map with many more players and I doubt I would have the same problem again, however after getting a yelling at for being a new player I wasn't precisely encouraged to continue trying.

It also stands out being as I've been a newbie on many an online  game (hence why there are so many in the db), but I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've had that sort of nasty response (usually game admins tend to be very welcoming of new players).

In fairness though anyone can have a bad day, actually I do need  try empire mud out and give it a proper db page since whatever else it does have extremely good screen reader interaction.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-10-17 15:31:00

Sounds like this game is  more of an ego trip for the admin than a game for players to enjoy.

2017-10-17 20:09:15

Once upon a time there were real empire building type games in the form of storm 8's iOS ongoing titles like iMobsters, Zombies and vampires live, and other such titles.  Sadly they have been discontinued owing to lack of interest, I imagine.  The point is that you went into a game like that completely aware that you were going to be harassed by other players because of the nature of the game, and you did your absolute best to forge alliances with other players, find people both who were personal friends who would play with you and complete strangers who were just willing to join you for the sake of numbers to overwhelm other opponents.  Torn city also comes to mind; shame it has as many accessibility issues as it does, which is part of why I never recommend it anymore.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2017-10-18 05:21:33

I also tend to agree with the OP from my viewing of the log. That seems to be not the greatest of ways for an admin to behave...
He does, or did when last I checked anyways, keep an updated copy of his source on github. If someone feels they can do a better job and wants to put up a different version, I don't think it would be too difficult. The code is under new GPL? I think.

Prier practice and preparation prevents piss poor performance!

2017-10-18 16:17:27

Speaking of which, we have an Empire Mud server up with the latest live code changes implemented. I still love this game and I think you will as well. So come and play! The land is unsettled and waiting for all of you to come and fight over it. And I promise we will do our best to be fair and helpful admins. One thing that we will never do is show favoritism to people just because they complain that they are scared to log in. If all of this sounds more palatable to you than what you've been reading about previously, go connect now, at
riseofempires.anomalousabode.com
port 4000
Enjoy, and I hope to see you guys create formidable, powerful empires!

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2017-10-18 16:36:23

Also, early on, Knashteran stole money from us and also killed Ironcross 32,  a low  level player in our empire, while he was logged in and we were not. When I saw what they was doing I logged in to try to stop  knashteran from stealing more stuff but they logged off before I could. We did not complain to the admin, and we did not feel afraid to log in. It sucks that  knashteran just had to complain to khufu that they was afraid to log in and then khufu stopped us from attacking. also the khufu mesage on dev was response to my mesage
[/dev Serkan Al]: not feir
[/dev Khufu]: Please stop discussing this on public channels. We can talk via tell if you like.
i have put this channel mesages here, in response to post 14
the game was good, but he deleted the fun part, war,
also keywasfull and other some friends making a new server for empire mud, it will be fun

2017-10-18 19:50:41

What doesn't make sense to me is why he prohibits discussions like that on public channels. That sounds a bit... rude to me, in a way. This is a game for empires, this is a game of wars where people war verbally, magically and physically all the time. Let them have at it on public channels, I say.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2017-10-18 22:14:29

Probably because he doesn't want the negative publicity his actions would no doubt cause.

2017-10-18 23:29:08

@Post36 He did that because he knows that everyone on that channel is going to call him out for being stupid, and he doesn't want that. He'd rather deal with 1 person at a time than an entire channel..

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All of my socials and content platforms can be found on my website (not ready yet).

2017-10-19 00:41:04

Wait a minute, you can't, like, seriously, you know, seriously expect someone to like, let other people shout it out on public channels on a game about fighting, because bullying!  You know?  I mean, what if you insulted someone by calling them a coward for not engaging you in battle?  No!  Seriously!  Just take a second to think about it!  You might really make them cry for hiding behind an admin's back and stuff!  On a fighting game!  It'd be like running an all you can eat buffet and, well, telling people they can only have a select few items on the menu if their weight is over a certain limit.  I'm sure that's how fairness is done?  isn't it?  I mean, aren't they passing laws about how much coke and other soft drinks you can have?
Sorry... I couldn't resist.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2017-10-19 03:43:38 (edited by Dan Gero 2017-10-19 03:44:34)

@Post39 That post deserves an A+! Thumbs up for sarcasm! big_smile

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All of my socials and content platforms can be found on my website (not ready yet).

2017-10-21 00:42:06

@40,
Have a little more sarcasm, because why not, if you have the time.
All the fun starts around post 25, but you'll get a little more out of it if you actually read the whole topic.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2017-10-21 03:17:32

keyIsFull wrote:

Speaking of which, we have an Empire Mud server up with the latest live code changes implemented. I still love this game and I think you will as well. So come and play! The land is unsettled and waiting for all of you to come and fight over it. And I promise we will do our best to be fair and helpful admins. One thing that we will never do is show favoritism to people just because they complain that they are scared to log in. If all of this sounds more palatable to you than what you've been reading about previously, go connect now, at
riseofempires.anomalousabode.com
port 4000
Enjoy, and I hope to see you guys create formidable, powerful empires!

does this one have a mush sound pack as well?

2017-10-21 06:25:30

yes.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2017-10-21 07:29:01

nice. I'll check things out in a bit

2017-10-21 09:09:43

can i use mush z to play empire mud?
and isn't it better to play on the main server since there are more players on? i like to play games which has many activ players on it

2017-10-21 10:04:11

you can use mushClient to play. The soundpack was built for mushClient. Also there are usually about the same or more players on my server than on the main server.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2017-10-22 08:16:28

yeah there is same online in new server. also who cares if the main server have more online if they are no feir admins