And it's not like ideas are patented or anything oft he sort. Code belongs to you, plain and simple. But, as has been said in the chat log *thanks kianoosh* Ivan and Sam made an agreement, so no code was stolen. With that said and done, I believe the original topic at hand here was personal relationships between admins and users, which quite frankly doesn't have much to do with stolen code unless we're talking handing the code over to a trusted friend vs giving grief to others who aren't their friends.

Guitarman, it's cool that you were trying to help the mods, but honestly that usually just makes things worse and can redirect anger on to you, since we can't tell what your thinking.
Maybe you could try sending them a forum message to see if they know about the thread?
Then again if everyone does that, it ends up Swamping them, so if I were you I'd just trust that they are paying attention to such a big thread, unless something really obviously against the rules happens and nothing gets done about it for days.
It's good that you reviewed the thread again though to understand it better, I wish everyone did that, and sorry for sounding harsh, I've seen people say the kind of thing you did before and it usually is because they are a mod wanabee that can't make it onto the team, and not because they are actually trying to be useful.

Assault Freak, When you put it like that about chat logs and devs calling out other devs directly, than yeah, I see your point.
But if you replace Sam with Ubisoft and Ivon with Valve, and the hole preference thing with preference for high paying players, or server admins that discriminate based on skill and are willing to give high level player's items for free, then, you end up with something more common, that tons and tons of people would, and do, get behind.
And sorry if I offended you with the hole walled in community comment, I just couldn't see how this kind of stuff wouldn't be prevalent, in which ever form, pretty much everywhere you go, and I know that some places like I said, are really chill do to strict mods and rules or just the kind of people that tend to enjoy that niche are generally more layed back.
As to the four topics being allot, remember that I'm talking about over the span of a month or two here, that's a pretty long time, but yes, I see your logic about how this crap can come back onto the forum, and I don't want that, but this still hasn't reached the  level of uproar that the original UP clones caused.
Still, that's kind of the responsibility that you take on when your in charge of a free speech oriented space for discussion.

Slender, Kianoosh, and visualstudio. The matter is, like you guys said, technically solved, but it's still a slap in the face that this even happened, and frankly it reflects badly on the entire community.
Yes Sam did eventually allow Ivon to use the code, but only after he had already stolen it, and it was only to rid him self of the issue. That doesn't magically erase the history though.
Now that Ivon is actually charging for a game that is still, at it's core, a stolen mess of UP and Redspot code with yes, many copied sounds and mirrored concepts with slight cosmetic changes, and I admit, a few new ones, it feels as though Sam and Mason should really be getting most of the profits.
Now I do get that this wouldn't be such an in the open kind of thing in the mainstream community, but you have to understand, the same exact things would be happening, but behind closed doors, via intellectual property, espionage, and proprietary data law suits.
The problem is that I'm pretty sure neither party in this is a registered business, and even if Sam is, I'm almost certain that Ivon isn't, so none of that applies, aside from some toothless general data laws.
Plus, their both kids, so that would be extreme anyway, but look at how often companies like Microsoft and Soni, Apple and Samsung are at each other's throats.
I know that this community is much, much smaller, but this still happens in the Indi gaming space, but it's ugly and neither publisher wants to deal with it publicly, plus, the outcome is rarely satisfactory for anyone.
That's why I partially sympathize with the point of view that this shouldn't be made into a circus, but I also don't like the idea of people getting away with continued sleezbaggery, as it often ends up hurting both the original creator, and the community's trust and reputation.
Just look at how many people are scared to share code now, mainly because of this incident.
And yes I did just use the word sleezbaggery, and I'm proud of it! :-D

As for copied sounds, I agree that most of them are just stolen from the people who did most of the actual work anyway, so it's more of a tacky, no effort sort of thing, which is still a point against who ever does it.
Plus you never really no when their stolen and when their not, so if they aren't, and someone tries to protect them, say with an encrypted pack file, and someone else goes and breaks that encryption, than because the original party protected them to a reasonable degree, now the second party is the one held legally responsible. Or at least that's my understanding of it... :s

If TK ends up being something more some day and Ivon shapes up, than I think it could be a worthwhile game, similar to the paths that many mainstream games that were mentioned here took, and for those who just simply enjoy it now, I have nothing against them, this hasn't got anything to do with the players for the most part. I just hope you're willing to accept the potential consequences for sticking your neck out on this purchase.

Haha, literally just saw this pop up 5 minutes ago.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/22/1634 … milarities

urney, a dear friend of Ivan, heard from his own mouth. he's bout to defend his little ivan. ROFLFLFLFLFLF. good one! oh man!  slender, I think you happen to have missed the point. similar functionality is one thing, copying functions from a game who's code you use as the base, and incorpirating it just like the big brother, is quite another. frankly, I don't care if a game is stolen, or cloned, as long as I like it. the TK started in the former, and landed in the latter. it's funny that this topic has seen sunlight, when I made mine, people hated me for it, and I deleted it, for the sakes of peace. that, too, was completely taken off the original, highlighted point, just like this one. never mind, though, I'm hated everywhere. post 3, can't recall your user name, indeed. I'm watching the show, it can be a good one and that. now let's go to ivan's friends.  if you want admin rights, be ivan's friend. going around under the user name of  unofficial admin, only to spam players with mistles, filling up the server with motion bombs, and time bombs, with most games, would get you banned. but because he's ivan's friend, he's good. but, if you use antibiotics, or just have coins, you're automatically a cheater. this same dude accused me. fun times, they were. then when I dared him to ask ivan, he backed off. yes, you pretty much embarrassed yourself. so obviously, you have good reasons of defending him, you want your freedom. so, go go go. as for the paying system, I was one of the few ones who have seen it, or at least certainly, mentioned it. I was also the one who posted his time bomb message, I was also the one who pasted it from his release notes, and I  was also the one who pasted his original web site. and honestly, I'm proud of it. I'm known for my factual lectures, and revealing lies, and bullshit, so those of you who know me, will have expected me to do it. not to mention the entertainment side of it. I mean, I get way too easily amused. PS. redspot, in actual fact, had the remote time bombs a day before. and this is coming from someone, who hates the community of RS, and so refuses to play it. no reason to defend, in other words. nowadays, there is absolutely no FPS. that's worth playing. the TK was the first, that I liked, ever since RTR. it took 5 years, to make something worth while, then 2 months to destroy that. as for STW, urney does play it, but he ended up raging, after he lost like 2 or so DFC. I was online at the time. too bad he's not on my trust list, so I couldn't watch him losing them, but it would have been a hell of an entertainment. it was still entertaining, even just hearing it. I also played BTB, and all that, and I'll say it again, I don't have an issue with cloning. oh yeah, removing and replacing developers? apparently, colton lost his admin rights, or so I'm told, because he told people to not ober abuse the server with bombs, and shit? just wow. inconsistent admins, inconsistent developers, unreliable choices, new features we don't agree with.  and once more, I don't care if something is cloned, as long as it's well made.
oh, I don't care for sounds being copied, either, we all have to start somewhere, then change them as we go along,. and speaking of that, don't bring that up big gun, else ivan will change it all, and that, we will have no evidence of.
if only I knew programming, would join the FPS competition.

sito, do you remember when ivan claimed that sam hacked him, and deleted the topic 4 hours later? did we ever find out the truth to that one? been a few months back...

Hi Defender.
Thanks for being understanding, I gave you a thumbs-up.
As far as the killer, people seem to be going back and forth as to whether code was borrowed or stolen or what. But being an amateur programmer myself, I hate software piracy! I can't comment on the killer or redspot because I know nothing about either one. However if the code was stolen and used to make a clone I find that really disturbing. I can't understand why people have to hack and steel from other people instead of being creative and writing their own code. Really with hard work and patience you can create some nice stuff without hacking or steeling.

@39
that all meens the developers jujment and is he trusty. if the dev is trusty to anyone, anyone can go there and do ask goodness knows what.
but, if he knows who to trust and who to not, then you cant find some things more often. I cant now say in percent how mutch of the sited game making community and of the blind community have good or bad jujment, but, more people, more better ones.
@the_grait_carver
I have red it, and know what you meen. I will quote my own most that is right after it. so here it comes.

@ernie and comments about him
I haven't heard about this stw thing, wish I have watched it. Really, would be rorring with laphter, and maybe shoot him with a sticky laser by mistake.
but really, going everywhere as unofitial admin and having morals like one is just, unsupportable he wunts, actually it was the last time that I was, and ever will be, on tk. he destroyed his own shelter, witch was in one hand our own, just because I have bid then canceled my bid on his own auction. there should be a rule so that  the nickname cant contain developer, moderator, administrator, etc. unofitial admin is in one of those categories, and he should at leest be banned accept if he doesn't change his nickname. And, as I have all reddy said, he's only protecting Ivan, just because he's the best on there, and on redspot he isn't, and he's now only hanging on tk.
and, he's one of the persons that are his friends, I didn't want to reference him because, I don't want references.
I will also like say this, regarding ernies comments
@guise, learn to be objective. I meen look from the point of view of the outsider, not sam's mason's or any others friend on here.
that would only go strate to the personal insults, and that point of view wouldn't be logical.
but, I was talking to mutch. sorry for desterbin you guise.
Kind regards, with my sticky laser
Aleksandar

@brail0109
yeah, I didn't think about it there.
But, imagine if Sam adds missiles in rs? then someone like ernie would just fire them at hi level players, and if they take about 10000 health, he would kill him with about 10 guided missiles. and he did it by only paying loads of koins to get them. yeah, really, really good way of fighting!
and no, none of those people even effect me. Even the real admins witch only go around with that stupid title of there's don't inppress me, to. If you are going to be a good admin, then don't be like a mister  very respected king. no, nobody says that admins shouldn't have authorities comparing to other players, but no one shouldn't go to farr in expressing his power. maybe an example of this is an admin on redspot called god, who isn't, as farr as I know, a god but I am getting off topic.
about references, troof is, this is not a cortroom because, we cant proov anything in the cortroom, because Ivan changes things every day, and as I have all reddy said, nor Ivan, nor anyone else, exist to the copyright world. And, I don't want to point to rong examples or to recall on old topics, because, well, because they are old and that's the end of that.

kind regards,
Aleksandar

Admins can give coins, and any other item they want to give, to other people. I've seen this first hand, back when I actually liked and played TK. One of the admins, Quinton, demonstrated this to me on TeamTalk back in spring of this year, and even gave me some coins. This may be the reason why people have so many coins and items!

I personally think Ivan should be banned from here, as to limit his options when it comes to advertising his stolen products and all the drama surrounding it. I showed some sighted friends this topic and they thought it was hilarious.

@lord_london
point is, that moderators doesn't have a rule do they allow clones or not. it may be put in the rule no piracy, steeling etc but I am not shure. BTB was removed because Mason asked mods to remove it, witch was kind of stupid, then  by that same logic anyone can say, hey he cloned that and that and that and just removed a competitor. I didn't know how mutch did they investigaite in that case with ultrapower but as farr as I know they didn't have any proof that it was an up clone, but, it was obviase, I meen similar mechanics, similar items, even it releaced something from up every day, and this was some proof.
Even in that case, he shouldn't be given a perminant ban, maybe be banned so that he cant post in the new releaces room, or something like that. and anyway none of this eve nis taken into a count, because Sam allowed that source code to be used and there is a stop to that.
@last_poster
yeah everyone uses the same libraries, spetially for footstep sounds, like in absolutely every readme they thank someone like NSStudioes or I think that I have seen kianoosh's name in one of them, etc. so, they are asking from the same source, they got the same thing. How ever I am not that mutch focusing footstep sounds because those are very difficult to record.
and, by the way I have now removed all traces of the game from my computer. so... Expect that this is the end to all this.

@48 and 49:

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, but.....

1. You can't copyright ideas, that's a part of law, you cannot claim to own an idea, else if that was the case no audiogames would be made since whoever made it first would just enforce that copyright and only allow a few select friends to make audiogames.

2. Asfar as the cloning thing......just because a game has similar mechanics does not mean it is a clone. I mean in the AA industry there's a lot of similar games coming out, does that mean Battlefield is a CoD clone because they are FPS games that have the same guns and multiplayer modes? Oh no EA should recall Battlefield and never make anoher game according to that logic. I don't agree with cloning....to a point. However if I take....say...your code and improve on it and turn it into something else, that is a whole other game.

Legally speaking as well that wouldn't be considered a clone as I'd have put enough work into it to show people it's a whole other game, and honestly if you take the argument that any game with similar mechanics is a clone, you can wave goodbye to most audiogames as they all use similar sound mechanics. Does that mean they are all clones of each other? No, it doesn't

That argument is just as  hollow as the idea that two games with similar mechanics are clones. A clone is an exact copy. A game that's built on another's code but is improved on and made different is its own different thing.

That being said, in clear cut cases where there's airtight proof the code's stolen, banhammer away as far as I'm concerned, other than that....let people build games on whatever codebase they want and let them put their own flavor on games.

3. If such a rule was aded in I feel it'd slow down releases and have a paranoid environment with a mob mentality of fans of one developer going around spreading rumors and tattling on similar games to remove competition, you see it all the time on Youtube, two creators get into a fight and the fanbases are at war. Now imagine that, say, Ivan makes a game, and Sam's players start posting bullshit about Ivan stealing stuff from Sam, or from Aprone, or whever else just to stir up trouble. It's too much trouble I feel to be worth it, especially since human nature being what it is, that will happen with petty people. Worse is if a developer...and yeah this happens a lot in gaming, tells their fans on Twiter or whatever to go report a game for X reason, and thousands of people go flag a game or a video, basically using their fans as a weapon.

That's why I'm not in favor of the rule. See point 2, last part...

My 0.02

Oh and one more thing...I think honestly we need more developers not less, a fear of being stigmatized/witch unted for just making a game even if you got no clue about this forum may well cause a ripple effect for wannabe developers who may well scrap their projects out of fear of a mob mentality.