2017-08-18 16:53:05

So after getting into the demo I just wanted to say; wow. That's some stuff. I just wanted to hear what some other folks thought. What parties are you rocking?

Sidenote: If this is where audiogames are going; then hell yes.

2017-08-18 17:05:35

Just complete the whole game and spend more time with it and you will realise how much it's not balanced. Sadly but this is the truth and it's my opinion.

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2017-08-18 17:15:41

Can we talk about how awesome Pokemon is?

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2017-08-18 17:27:59

Cody_91 wrote:

Can we talk about how awesome Manamon is?

assault_freak wrote:

Can we talk about how awesome Pokemon is?

I'm sure in the end people will just talk about how Pokemon Manamon is.
LOL, sorry, I couldn't help myself.  big_smile

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2017-08-18 17:37:13

Love it!

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2017-08-18 17:51:21 (edited by Chris 2017-08-18 17:53:56)

The game is awesome! I just completed it. I actually like the game more for the story and exploration than the combat system. Combat was okay, but the true fun was wandering around finding items and solving the few puzzles. Since I've played it, there's not much reason to play again.

As for the Pokemon clone comment, who cares! Mainstream game companies don't consider or care about blind people. I'd rather have a fully accessible clone of a popular mainstream game that I can play than no access at all.

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2017-08-18 18:01:10

The game is good, but, sadly, it is seriously, seriously unbalanced. Which, of course, explains why I don't play it any more.

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2017-08-18 19:01:00

Hi.
At ethin and others who said the game is unbalanced, I haven't tryed the game out that much yet, just played the demo a bit.
Could you tell me what in the game is unbalanced?
Greetings Moritz.

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2017-08-18 19:12:26

The game is indeed awesome, as a person who have purchased it and completed it several times. It's a pokemon clone yes, but at that point I do agree with Chris, an access to a clone is better than no access at all. Yes it's more advanced than Paladin, but I see that Paladin is better than it when it comes to story and rpg elements. But may I ask those who say that Manamon is unbalanced: I don't disagree so far, but from which side do you see the game so? As for gameplay for instance, don't you think it's balanced enough?

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2017-08-18 19:40:28

OK, here are my thoughts, you asked for them so if you don't like them, I'm sorry.

I have tried all of VG Storm's games and didn't find a single one I liked enough to pay the price they are asking for them. $5 to $10 at them most would have been more appropriate in my humble opinion.

2017-08-18 21:50:04

Oh orko don't exaggerate. Only 5 to 10 dollars for a game that there were working on for more than year and a half, and contains a not so few content. Maybe 15 to 20 dollars is kinda appropriate, don't know. That's the dev's decision, according to the efort and resources he put.

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2017-08-18 22:22:14

Hi.
Well, a games worth is not based on how long a dev has been working on the game, the Duke Nukem devs were rich people by this point if this model would be the valid one.
Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2017-08-18 23:26:15

i suggest you not play it.  i spent 10 days of my life playing it. it was not good game.

2017-08-18 23:52:18

Okay, a lot to say here. and some of you might not like it.
First and foremost I think Manamon is fantastic compared with most of the audio games on the market today. That said, it quite obviously wouldn't be so fantastic when compared to today's multimillion dollar mainstream masterpieces... but it tries pretty damn hard which earns mega browny points in my book.
I had largely dismissed and abandoned the audio games scene a long time ago, because I was sick of paying $30 for a game I could finish in an afternoon, or a game that had been done ten times before (within the audio games scene... I think clones of mainstream titles are amazing).
So I moved on to struggling through mainstream games as I successfully did with Ocarina of time (and as it happens that scored me some news coverage).
The VGStorm rpgs bring something new to the table; content.
All the flashy expensive sound work in some titles will do absolutely nothing for me if the trade-off is that I can finish them in one sitting.
Paladin, for example, sacrifices a good bit of audio "dressing" for a lot of content. Not everybody's cup of tea, but it did the trick for me. Manamon packs even more content into a game that doesn't sacrifice on the  audio so much, and so obviously it's more expensive; fine by me, still within the price of a mainstream title. A Hero's call is expected to have exemplary sound quality, full voice acting and a lot of content; but it had to be kickstarted in order to make it possible (how in the world is that a surprise?).

but to everyone who simply demands nothing less than multimillion dollar quality from small-time devs and expects to pay next to nothing for it I have one thing to say. I'd like to see you try and pull that off by yourself.
and I'm not saying for a minute that I don't expect or hope to see growth in this industry. but it'll never happen if devs can't catch a break for an honest effort.
To the balance issues, I've never really seen this explained well. What balance issues does Manamon suffer from that Pokemon doesn't? Plenty of "do not use" creatures, but Pokemon does the same thing.

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2017-08-19 01:04:43

@Trajectory: Sorry for a bit of offtopic but how you completed Ocarina of time? it's one of those games I really want to play and complete. Every bit of help will be appreciated a lot!

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2017-08-19 01:17:22

gotta agree with post 14, while balance is questionable and I wish the online portion was easier to get working, I've had and still am having a tonne of fun with Manamon.  really hoping for a sequel

2017-08-19 02:23:03

@Lirin:
Back before 2008 I had done a lot of forum posting and youtube videos to try and get help with Ocarina. Eventually I met a very talented speed runner who was either the world record holder at the time (or close).
He and I started working together over Skype and he ended up writing steps for me which were able to guide me through the game (for map navigation it came down to mostly counting steps and movements, but the combat I could do mostly on my own).
It took us a couple of years but we eventually got working steps written for the entire game, with the help of a few other guys who came and went over the course of the project.
After that a few Twitch streamers (including the guy who helped me) completed blindfolded playthroughs on stream (without specific steps).
As to the topic at hand, the online feature was advertised as being experimental. I too hope to see it improved, especially if there's a sequel (more mons, more features and a flushed out networking system will make for some interesting online play).
Of course that means subscription access (because it would have to be managed by a server), which I'm perfectly okay with as long as there's enough of a player base to where you can log on and get a battle most of the time.
I think the game is a really solid attempt at bringing us a mainstream sized and captivating game. Sacrifices have to be made when you're a 1(or 2, or 3...) man show with a budget of just a few thousand or so as opposed to a huge corporation, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I hope A Hero's Call gives it a run for it's money, but I equally look forward to hopefully more Manamon and similar games.

Official server host for vgstorm.com and developer of the Manamon 2 netplay server.
PSA: sending unsolicited PMs or emails to people you don't know asking them to buy you stuff is disrespectful. You'll just be ignored, so don't waste your time.

2017-08-19 02:27:23

Hmm, you know, I feel kinda like replay value and time-to-completion are different enough that I can't really judge games based on the latter. Like, I read an interview with a Sega developer regarding 3d rereleases of classic games, and during the interview, the dev gave the interviewer a copy of 3d Streets of Rage, and by the end of the interview, the interviewer was at the final level. Speed-runs of the original Super Mario Bros are very short.
But nowadays, games can't capture what made 5-60 minute games popular, and now they have to measure playtime in dozens or hundreds of hours as a selling point. Then people rush through them on release weekend anyway.
So I don't even know how to feel about all this.
Also, agree that the bar really needs to not fall far below Manamon, hence forth. Keeping release dates in mind, Audio Games are a good 20 years behind, and that's only if we count VGStorm. And, playing mainstream games 20 years ago? I think that's being generous.
Also yes Manamon is awesome and I am jealous of the talent that brought it into being. smile

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2017-08-19 04:43:31

Replay value is way too subjective to be measurable, IMO. I do put a lot of stalk in estimated completion time, and to RPG fans this is a pretty important, mostly objective metric.
If we take a look at one of my favourites -- Ocarina of Time -- by all accounts it should have essentially zero replay value. It's a pretty long game for 20 years ago, but you play as the same character, through the same story and the levels are always exactly the same. but countless people keep coming back for more, and more... and more... for all these years... for reasons that are difficult to put into words.
If a game can captivate me with hours and hours of new and challenging quests, intense battles and compelling story sequences with a good mix of emotions, I'll play it again and again. If a game takes 60 minutes, it can't possibly deliver on those things, so unless those 60 minutes can be considerably different the 2nd, 3rd, or 33rd time... then it has limited replay value according to my own taste in gaming.
I can't see speed run times as being a fair measurement of how long a game is. Speed running is an art, a science and a sport all at the same time and the times they achieve are a result of vast knowledge and usually bug exploitation.
Since 2005, Ocarina of Time speed runs have gone from taking 5 and a half hours to being less than 20 minutes. Today, a good 99 percent of the game is skipped and the entire run is a show of glitch exploitation. and it's highly competitive with a lot of players. For such a huge meta game to have emerged from a single player game, it must be good; and that's what replay value means to me.
On a side note, from my own experimentation, a serious (but poorly executed) speed run of Paladin of the Sky would clock in at about 5 hours 30 minutes. A similarly serious but poorly executed speed run of Manamon would clock in at a little shy of 10 hours. A well executed speed run of the once ground breaking Super Liam clocks in at about 37 minutes.

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PSA: sending unsolicited PMs or emails to people you don't know asking them to buy you stuff is disrespectful. You'll just be ignored, so don't waste your time.

2017-08-19 06:19:26

I must admit, I'm quite astounded at the negativity surrounding this game, and couldn't agree more with Trajectory's comments, even though I'm not nearly as serious a gamer now as I used to be. On the other hand, want to know why I'm not a serious gamer any more? Precisely because the art of audio game making seems to be focused so much more on quick fixes/short and sweet time wasters, text-based games, and online open world design, rather than depth, plot development, and quality of content combined with the power of audio design. Sure, Manamon was a Pokemon clone. Sure, the plot is sort of shallow. But you know what? The game makes up for that by being engaging, and taking you through quite a journey indeed! All that while designed by a small team, and still providing many hours of intrigue, excitement, suspense, and general enjoyment. More to the point, this game contributes to a very, very small pile of such games in this particular style, and I will take it, and its preset but clearly defined story over an aimless, make it up as you go online open world sort of rig any day. Call me old-fashioned, but I can never enjoy small, five-minute games, text adventures, or online multiplayer games in the way that I enjoyed the hours and hours of watching and helping my dad play through all the classic single-player survival horror games, solving puzzles, figuring out the stories... And Manamon offered me a chance to do all of those things, but do them by myself. Here's hoping there's more where that came from in the future.

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2017-08-19 06:23:45

AlirezaNosrati wrote:

i suggest you not play it.  i spent 10 days of my life playing it. it was not good game.

What? A game that you spend a lot of time to finish is really valuable. A game that you beat easily and in a short time doesn't worth it, and that provs how awesome VGStorm's games are.

Kind regards!

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2017-08-19 08:21:27

I really appreciate how people gave this an injection of positivity. The title was "Let's talk about why it's amazing!" not "Let's complain". Seriously, this is one of the best honest attempts I've seen at making an immersive audiogame. The fact that it was made by a small team with nowhere near the budget, and can still even compare itself to Pokémon in any way is a god send for us. As a fully blind dude for only 5 years, and when my last game experiences were Halo Reach and Skyrim; I consider myself extremely god damn lucky to have it this good. Especially considering I thought I was stuck with tedious browser games with a half cocked story and no real depth. I was able to play and beat Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Manamon has given me far more joy than those games ever did because I thought I would never have that again. I for one am incredibly grateful and say thanks VG; you guys kick ass. Let me help somehow. Much love and good night.

2017-08-19 14:40:40

Thumbs up to you Locutus, you're totally right. While I wish that if vgstorm will make another rpg title that I wish it to be something like paladin, with more advanced mechanics, but I do also wish a Manamon sequel, with more unique bosses and so on.

Kind regards!

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2017-08-19 16:12:30

I actually feel as though I have the programming knowhow to make a sizeable RPG like this. The trouble is I seem to come up short when it comes to motivation, and I lack knowhow in areas like sound design and music critique.
Hmm, maybe I'll just take one year off after college, commit myself to a game development endeavour, and then just move on with my life being known as a one hit wonder among this community.
Another problem is that unrealistic expectations serve as a big turn-off. Expectations like a life-long (or indefinite) commitment to continuously add new content after release (something that has never happened before, and never happened in mainstream before DLC became possible).

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PSA: sending unsolicited PMs or emails to people you don't know asking them to buy you stuff is disrespectful. You'll just be ignored, so don't waste your time.

2017-08-19 17:10:14

I mean, I can do story design, and I went to school for audio production. Don't get me wrong; it was a year, and I have a shit ton left still to learn, but I'm building a home studio and I have Pro Tools.